The Gun Control Debate

[rebeccajo 14]

I want to know where are all the responsible gun owners to take out a crazed psycho when something happens? Seems that is always the argument, that they will be ready to protect themselves and others, yet it's only the odd "granny shoots intruder" story tht you hear about. So where are all of the gun owners ready to protect us all...

Hee, most of these crazed killers attack at places where guns are banned. And if a responsible gun owner were there, he probably would not be carrying a firearm. If he is carrying a firearm he would not be a law abiding responsible gun owner.

Big misconception. It is not the responsibility of "responsible" gun owners to protect "Us All". A responsible gun owner does not own a gun to protect the masses. Mostly, a responsible gun owner is one who accepts the responsibility of protecting himself/herself and his/her family when they are near.

If you (plural) are looking for protection from someone else, you could someday be very disappointed. It is very rare for a police officer to be at the scene of a crime much less a responsible gun owner. The only persons that are sure to be at the scene of a crime are the criminal and the victim. Criminals are lazy, If they think their intended victim will put up a fight, usually there won't be a crime committed.

One of the best things I have done in my life is to teach my daughters how to use firearms. The youngest was 8 when she was taught. I go to the firing range twice a month and most of the time my youngest is with me. The older ones are with me less often since they are adults.

I will tell you that my daughters are not sheep. I am very confident in their ability to protect themselves. They have learned that they are personally responsible for their protection. And they don't necessarily rely on a firearm for personal protection. They understand that not putting yourself in a position to be a victim is number one. And firearms are a last resort. They are basically armed with the intent to protect themselves.

In a nutshell. I did not become a responsible gun owner to protect you (plural). I became a responsible gun owner to protect myself and my family. If someday it happens that I protect you from a crime, feel blessed, because that was not, is not, nor will be my intent. If it is your personal preference to be a sheep, that is fine. Don't expect me to be the sheepdog when the wolves come howling. I am not a sheepdog, I am an ant preparing for winter.

This is one of the best posts I've ever read on this subject.

Ever read this?

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. "

Now read this 'best post ever' as a defense of the subject of you being able to keep your guns -

"I did not become a responsible gun owner to protect you (plural). I became a responsible gun owner to protect myself and my family."

Sickening.

You know, I've always been opposed to guns. But now I've even more convinced. Because collectively, you aren't interested in owning a weapon for the good of the masses. You are interested in owning one to protect your sorry a$$ from an imagined home invader.

Don't ever talk to me again about your 'rights'. You don't even begin to know the meaning of them.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Well, it's obvious now that there was no point in my trying to tone down my position, or speak with civility in the thread.

You want to mock people and get self-righteous about defending your home? Pi$$ off. Even if I had a gun and someone broke into my house, I wouldn't be aiming to kill them. Therefore I wouldn't be looking for a semi-automatic. I once learned that the best way to protect yourself from the legal aftermath of defending yourself during a domestic break-in is to shoot the intruder in the legs. He's down but you aren't up for murder charges.

Pink gun? So freakin' what? Not enough testosterone in the weapon for you?

This is what owning guns is REALLY about. It's not about your damn liberties or defending your property. It's because the smell of gunpowder gets you off. Or the thought of being the more powerful of two in a confrontation.

Any argument you have for keeping your weapons goes right out the window with me when you decide to act like deer rutting in the fields and locking your horns. Disgusting. And to hide behind the Constitution while doing it is even more nauseating to me. You are no better than bible-thumpers hiding behind the Cross all the while screaming intolerance against people of other faiths, or people deemed as 'sinners'.

You sound too angry to own a gun. Even a pink one.

[William33 110]

I want to know where are all the responsible gun owners to take out a crazed psycho when something happens? Seems that is always the argument, that they will be ready to protect themselves and others, yet it's only the odd "granny shoots intruder" story tht you hear about. So where are all of the gun owners ready to protect us all...

Hee, most of these crazed killers attack at places where guns are banned. And if a responsible gun owner were there, he probably would not be carrying a firearm. If he is carrying a firearm he would not be a law abiding responsible gun owner.

Big misconception. It is not the responsibility of "responsible" gun owners to protect "Us All". A responsible gun owner does not own a gun to protect the masses. Mostly, a responsible gun owner is one who accepts the responsibility of protecting himself/herself and his/her family when they are near.

If you (plural) are looking for protection from someone else, you could someday be very disappointed. It is very rare for a police officer to be at the scene of a crime much less a responsible gun owner. The only persons that are sure to be at the scene of a crime are the criminal and the victim. Criminals are lazy, If they think their intended victim will put up a fight, usually there won't be a crime committed.

One of the best things I have done in my life is to teach my daughters how to use firearms. The youngest was 8 when she was taught. I go to the firing range twice a month and most of the time my youngest is with me. The older ones are with me less often since they are adults.

I will tell you that my daughters are not sheep. I am very confident in their ability to protect themselves. They have learned that they are personally responsible for their protection. And they don't necessarily rely on a firearm for personal protection. They understand that not putting yourself in a position to be a victim is number one. And firearms are a last resort. They are basically armed with the intent to protect themselves.

In a nutshell. I did not become a responsible gun owner to protect you (plural). I became a responsible gun owner to protect myself and my family. If someday it happens that I protect you from a crime, feel blessed, because that was not, is not, nor will be my intent. If it is your personal preference to be a sheep, that is fine. Don't expect me to be the sheepdog when the wolves come howling. I am not a sheepdog, I am an ant preparing for winter.

This is one of the best posts I've ever read on this subject.

Ever read this?

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. "

Now read this 'best post ever' as a defense of the subject of you being able to keep your guns -

"I did not become a responsible gun owner to protect you (plural). I became a responsible gun owner to protect myself and my family."

Sickening.

You know, I've always been opposed to guns. But now I've even more convinced. Because collectively, you aren't interested in owning a weapon for the good of the masses. You are interested in owning one to protect your sorry a$$ from an imagined home invader.

Don't ever talk to me again about your 'rights'. You don't even begin to know the meaning of them.

Rebecca,

Your perspective and response is really harsh. The law does protect one's right to defend their home from intruders (home invaders). If you don't believe this crime is a reality, read the news.

My weapons and experience in using them, stand ready to defend my home and family.

[isleta521 5]

Well, it's obvious now that there was no point in my trying to tone down my position, or speak with civility in the thread.

You want to mock people and get self-righteous about defending your home? Pi$$ off. Even if I had a gun and someone broke into my house, I wouldn't be aiming to kill them. Therefore I wouldn't be looking for a semi-automatic. I once learned that the best way to protect yourself from the legal aftermath of defending yourself during a domestic break-in is to shoot the intruder in the legs. He's down but you aren't up for murder charges.

Pink gun? So freakin' what? Not enough testosterone in the weapon for you?

This is what owning guns is REALLY about. It's not about your damn liberties or defending your property. It's because the smell of gunpowder gets you off. Or the thought of being the more powerful of two in a confrontation.

Any argument you have for keeping your weapons goes right out the window with me when you decide to act like deer rutting in the fields and locking your horns. Disgusting. And to hide behind the Constitution while doing it is even more nauseating to me. You are no better than bible-thumpers hiding behind the Cross all the while screaming intolerance against people of other faiths, or people deemed as 'sinners'.

You sound too angry to own a gun. Even a pink one.

Including any sharp objects in close proximity. yikes!!

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

I'm just glad rebeccajo isn't in charge of handing out rights and how we are allowed to use them.

[garya505 2]

I want to know where are all the responsible gun owners to take out a crazed psycho when something happens? Seems that is always the argument, that they will be ready to protect themselves and others, yet it's only the odd "granny shoots intruder" story tht you hear about. So where are all of the gun owners ready to protect us all...

Hee, most of these crazed killers attack at places where guns are banned. And if a responsible gun owner were there, he probably would not be carrying a firearm. If he is carrying a firearm he would not be a law abiding responsible gun owner.

Big misconception. It is not the responsibility of "responsible" gun owners to protect "Us All". A responsible gun owner does not own a gun to protect the masses. Mostly, a responsible gun owner is one who accepts the responsibility of protecting himself/herself and his/her family when they are near.

If you (plural) are looking for protection from someone else, you could someday be very disappointed. It is very rare for a police officer to be at the scene of a crime much less a responsible gun owner. The only persons that are sure to be at the scene of a crime are the criminal and the victim. Criminals are lazy, If they think their intended victim will put up a fight, usually there won't be a crime committed.

One of the best things I have done in my life is to teach my daughters how to use firearms. The youngest was 8 when she was taught. I go to the firing range twice a month and most of the time my youngest is with me. The older ones are with me less often since they are adults.

I will tell you that my daughters are not sheep. I am very confident in their ability to protect themselves. They have learned that they are personally responsible for their protection. And they don't necessarily rely on a firearm for personal protection. They understand that not putting yourself in a position to be a victim is number one. And firearms are a last resort. They are basically armed with the intent to protect themselves.

In a nutshell. I did not become a responsible gun owner to protect you (plural). I became a responsible gun owner to protect myself and my family. If someday it happens that I protect you from a crime, feel blessed, because that was not, is not, nor will be my intent. If it is your personal preference to be a sheep, that is fine. Don't expect me to be the sheepdog when the wolves come howling. I am not a sheepdog, I am an ant preparing for winter.

This is one of the best posts I've ever read on this subject.

Ever read this?

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. "

Now read this 'best post ever' as a defense of the subject of you being able to keep your guns -

"I did not become a responsible gun owner to protect you (plural). I became a responsible gun owner to protect myself and my family."

Sickening.

You know, I've always been opposed to guns. But now I've even more convinced. Because collectively, you aren't interested in owning a weapon for the good of the masses. You are interested in owning one to protect your sorry a$$ from an imagined home invader.

Don't ever talk to me again about your 'rights'. You don't even begin to know the meaning of them.

Not sure why it is "sickening" for someone to want to be able defend themselves. It just seems odd for someone to say something like that. Unless, of course, a person is just against violence of any kind, in which case why not just say that.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Leaving gun control aside for a moment - does anyone else wonder why it is that this sort of school shooting rampage appears to occur with much greater frequency in the US than in other countries? Gary mentioned the media earlier - and I don't doubt that plays a part in promoting these incidents - but I find it hard to think of an incidence where (any) mass murder would not be newsworthy - so it seems well... very unlikely that this is simply a case of over-reporting. Rather, it does seem to be happening with great frequency.

[garya505 2]

Leaving gun control aside for a moment - does anyone else wonder why it is that this sort of school shooting rampage appears to occur with much greater frequency in the US than in other countries? Gary mentioned the media earlier - and I don't doubt that plays a part in promoting these incidents - but I find it hard to think of an incidence where (any) mass murder would not be newsworthy - so it seems well... very unlikely that this is simply a case of over-reporting. Rather, it does seem to be happening with great frequency.

Personally I don't think the media should make the killer famous like they do. In the mind of a psycho like the NIU killer, this could be a way to leave their mark on the world and achieve fame.

[isleta521 5]

Leaving gun control aside for a moment - does anyone else wonder why it is that this sort of school shooting rampage appears to occur with much greater frequency in the US than in other countries? Gary mentioned the media earlier - and I don't doubt that plays a part in promoting these incidents - but I find it hard to think of an incidence where (any) mass murder would not be newsworthy - so it seems well... very unlikely that this is simply a case of over-reporting. Rather, it does seem to be happening with great frequency.

Yes, I wonder why this is happening and I don't have an answer for you. And I am very concerned cuz my oldest daughter will be going to ASU next year and have one more going to college in two years after that. With that said, this issue concerns us directly.

While I have firearms, enjoy shooting (with my daughters, sons and wife) and hunting (and have been responsible for 30 yrs +), I am against firearms (except perhaps for security) in an institution of learning. We could say that its not that prevalent but that would be hard to say to the parents of these kids that were victims of this, and other recent tragedies. To me, it is really hard to comprehend why a student would do such a horrible thing on campus but it is becoming somewhat of a trend and ultimatly a reality as you had mentioned. Unfortunately, I do not have an answer for you as to how we could prevent it which is really what I am at a loss.

Edited February 17, 2008 by isleta521

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Leaving gun control aside for a moment - does anyone else wonder why it is that this sort of school shooting rampage appears to occur with much greater frequency in the US than in other countries? Gary mentioned the media earlier - and I don't doubt that plays a part in promoting these incidents - but I find it hard to think of an incidence where (any) mass murder would not be newsworthy - so it seems well... very unlikely that this is simply a case of over-reporting. Rather, it does seem to be happening with great frequency.

Personally I don't think the media should make the killer famous like they do. In the mind of a psycho like the NIU killer, this could be a way to leave their mark on the world and achieve fame.

The news coverage of the Virginia Tech shooting spent far too much time on the killer - with his silly videos and crazy nonsense rants. Not sure what the purpose was in airing all that - other than to illustrate what we already knew... That the guy was batshit crazy.

I think there is something to be said for desensitisation of violence through the media (i.e. movies & video-games) - that violent material has some sort of effect on people who are somehow susceptible to it. I'm not too convinced that its a causal factor though - studies of the media in that respect tend to be pretty general and ignore the ways that individuals consume and use it.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Leaving gun control aside for a moment - does anyone else wonder why it is that this sort of school shooting rampage appears to occur with much greater frequency in the US than in other countries? Gary mentioned the media earlier - and I don't doubt that plays a part in promoting these incidents - but I find it hard to think of an incidence where (any) mass murder would not be newsworthy - so it seems well... very unlikely that this is simply a case of over-reporting. Rather, it does seem to be happening with great frequency.

Yes, I wonder why this is happening and I don't have an answer for you. And I am very concerned cuz my oldest daughter will be going to ASU next year and have one more going to college in two years after that. With that said, this issue concerns us directly.

While I have firearms, enjoy shooting (with my daughters, sons and wife) and hunting (and have been responsible for 30 yrs +), I am against firearms (except perhaps for security) in an institution of learning. We could say that its not that prevalent but that would be hard to say to the parents of these kids that were victims of this, and other recent tragedies. To me, it is really hard to comprehend why a student would do such a horrible thing on campus but it is becoming somewhat of a trend and ultimatly a reality as you had mentioned. Unfortunately, I do not have an answer for you as to how we could prevent it which is really what I am at a loss.

Its not only the school shootings - do you remember the kid who decided to copycat 9/11 by flying his Cessna into an office building? Even left a note to say that he was making some sort of "political statement".

That's really beyond the pale - you have to be on some sort of ego trip to think of doing something like that. Greatly inflated sense of their own importance - these folks are the 'real' aliens among us...

[garya505 2]

Here's a question for you all:

The NIU killer was obviously nuts and intent on killing a lot of people for whatever insane reason he had, so does anyone really think that he wouldn't have found some other way to do it, had he not been able to buy the guns? Or would he say, "oh, I can't get guns so I'll just forget it". Note that someone just killed 8 people with a car in Maryland, though it's not known at this time if it was intentional or not.

[isleta521 5]

Leaving gun control aside for a moment - does anyone else wonder why it is that this sort of school shooting rampage appears to occur with much greater frequency in the US than in other countries? Gary mentioned the media earlier - and I don't doubt that plays a part in promoting these incidents - but I find it hard to think of an incidence where (any) mass murder would not be newsworthy - so it seems well... very unlikely that this is simply a case of over-reporting. Rather, it does seem to be happening with great frequency.

Yes, I wonder why this is happening and I don't have an answer for you. And I am very concerned cuz my oldest daughter will be going to ASU next year and have one more going to college in two years after that. With that said, this issue concerns us directly.

While I have firearms, enjoy shooting (with my daughters, sons and wife) and hunting (and have been responsible for 30 yrs +), I am against firearms (except perhaps for security) in an institution of learning. We could say that its not that prevalent but that would be hard to say to the parents of these kids that were victims of this, and other recent tragedies. To me, it is really hard to comprehend why a student would do such a horrible thing on campus but it is becoming somewhat of a trend and ultimatly a reality as you had mentioned. Unfortunately, I do not have an answer for you as to how we could prevent it which is really what I am at a loss.

Its not only the school shootings - do you remember the kid who decided to copycat 9/11 by flying his Cessna into an office building? Even left a note to say that he was making some sort of "political statement".

That's really beyond the pale - you have to be on some sort of ego trip to think of doing something like that. Greatly inflated sense of their own importance - these folks are the 'real' aliens among us...

Agreed, but still - the dificult issue is how do we identify these individuals (if even possible) and even more difficult, how do we prevent them from acting on these acts of random violence? I don't expect you to have the answer as I cannot answer this.

I have a friend that teaches Portuguese at the University here and she had a really whacked student. I actually met him at a Brazilian club meeting and he seemed completly normal but my friend (his teacher) said his writings were completly nuts. She reported his compositions to the dean who did absolutely nothing. This happens all the time as I am told.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Here's a question for you all:

The NIU killer was obviously nuts and intent on killing a lot of people for whatever insane reason he had, so does anyone really think that he wouldn't have found some other way to do it, had he not been able to buy the guns? Or would he say, "oh, I can't get guns so I'll just forget it". Note that someone just killed 8 people with a car in Maryland, though it's not known at this time if it was intentional or not.

Who knows - the tools he used were the most efficient and effective he could find for the job he had in mind.

Personally who knows... really depends on his psychology I think. Noone knows what was on the guy's mind, what it was that actually prompted him to do this, or how long he'd planned to do this - so speculating on what he might have done is rather pointless - as you can only do so by assuming something about what was going on in his head.

With these school shooting type incidents - I think stress plays a role. College/uni can be hard work (much as some people may scoff at that). Simple fact is that some people don't deal well with pressure or failure, particularly when they have other issues. A guy I know who works at a university told me that he would be afraid to walk in the classroom if he knew what some students were really going through...

I do think that the availability of guns is part of the problem. I'm not saying that outlawing guns solves it - there is evidence to suggest that there's more to it than that. The market is what it is. It is troubling to me that the general public has very little say over who has guns, particularly handguns, as handguns are made to kill people. Period.

I've read some things recently that suggest that news coverage has served as a "how to" guide for school shootings in both high school and universities. I think it is more likely that the coverage has given ideas to people who are already troubled.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

I'm sure all the criminals will laydown their arms as soon they are out lawed. Fckin dreamland!