Che Guevara Flags in Obama's Houston Office

[Nagishkaw 510]

No offense, but Bush has killed more people than Che.

I know what that smiley means...you disagree with me but you have no intelligent or substantial argument to make.

could be he's waiting for a intelligent or substantial statement for you

My substantial statement is that, as horrible as Che is, there are certain American politicians who have done FAR worse (Truman, anyone). However, people would not look at a house with a picture of Truman and try to use it as a means to discredit the homeowners father.

The difference here is that they did so lawfully to protect your liberties and your right to come into these forums and trash them.

You do understand that war is a necessary evil, don't you? I'll go out on a limb here and say that you'd be one of the first to cry foul when you can't fill up your flowered volkswagen bus, and the first to cry that it's your goverments fault that you can't.

Always blame the USA first......

Bush went to war lawfully. We were attacked by Islamist extremeist, get it? We went to war in IRAQ on the best available intellegence, period. You and I are not privvy to all info that a US President has so let's not go to the loopy liberal conspiracy #######, please!

Liberals, sheesh!

Bush did NOT go to war lawfully, for one. We were attacked by the men of Bin Laden, who is still free because we got distracted by Iraq. I actually agree with the decision to remove Saddam from power. However, it is our refusal to leave middle eastern countries that leads to terrorism against us. Just listen to what they I say.

The legality of Truman dropping two nuclear bombs which killed 220,000 people, most of them civilians. Quite frankly, he acted in haste and many lives were lost unnecessarily.

I love how I am seen as a liberal by the right wingers and a damned neo-con by the left wingers on this site. I'm an open-minded moderate who wades through the ####### begrudgingly.

Riiiiiiiight.

[AnewKINDofFEELIN 0]

No offense, but Bush has killed more people than Che.

I know what that smiley means...you disagree with me but you have no intelligent or substantial argument to make.

could be he's waiting for a intelligent or substantial statement for you

My substantial statement is that, as horrible as Che is, there are certain American politicians who have done FAR worse (Truman, anyone). However, people would not look at a house with a picture of Truman and try to use it as a means to discredit the homeowners father.

The difference here is that they did so lawfully to protect your liberties and your right to come into these forums and trash them.

You do understand that war is a necessary evil, don't you? I'll go out on a limb here and say that you'd be one of the first to cry foul when you can't fill up your flowered volkswagen bus, and the first to cry that it's your goverments fault that you can't.

Always blame the USA first......

Bush went to war lawfully. We were attacked by Islamist extremeist, get it? We went to war in IRAQ on the best available intellegence, period. You and I are not privvy to all info that a US President has so let's not go to the loopy liberal conspiracy #######, please!

Liberals, sheesh!

Bush did NOT go to war lawfully, for one. We were attacked by the men of Bin Laden, who is still free because we got distracted by Iraq. I actually agree with the decision to remove Saddam from power. However, it is our refusal to leave middle eastern countries that leads to terrorism against us. Just listen to what they I say.

The legality of Truman dropping two nuclear bombs which killed 220,000 people, most of them civilians. Quite frankly, he acted in haste and many lives were lost unnecessarily.

I love how I am seen as a liberal by the right wingers and a damned neo-con by the left wingers on this site. I'm an open-minded moderate who wades through the ####### begrudgingly.

Riiiiiiiight.

Number 1: They've made it quite clear that our military intrusion into their land, offensive or not, is the main reason for their atatcks.

Number 2: We would have won the war in the Pacific without Little Boy and Fat Man, but they were able to hasten the signing of the surrender papers by the Japanese. I can't believe people could ever justify that decision. Seriously, 220,000 people died. This doesn't include the ones who have been dying horrible deaths for the last 62 years.

[peejay 327]

Number 2: We would have won the war in the Pacific without Little Boy and Fat Man, but they were able to hasten the signing of the surrender papers by the Japanese. I can't believe people could ever justify that decision. Seriously, 220,000 people died. This doesn't include the ones who have been dying horrible deaths for the last 62 years.

Who the heck is we? I'm sure you would look at it way differently if you were an 18 year old draftee like my dad was in WW2. You don't hear the guys that risked their necks fighting the Japanese crying any tears for nuking Japan. It's f*cking war. It ain't pretty.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Che has become a pop icon more than anything with pseudo-liberals around the world. Most people aren't aware of the atrocities he committed and just know that he was a revolutionary. He did make a lot of positive changes in Latin America, but not enough to justify the means.

I really hope this isn't the kind of thing that Obama condones within his campaign, and I'm sure he's not stupid enough to do so. However, we saw how stupid even the most respected politicians can be when Bubba started opening his mouth.

Che is not a "pop icon" --- that would be for the idiots who just buy T-shirts with his face in them without having a clue what Che stood for.

But by all means, please enlighten us stupid Latin Americans, who did learn about Ernesto Che Guevara's struggle and work in school about this "atrocities" you are so keen to point out.

If some candidates actually look up to Reagan as a role model, I'd rather have Che Guevara as one. Every day and twice on Sundays.

Peace brother, L.

Sorry, but I'm not buying it. Che started off with good intentions but got overly cynical along the way and a LOT of people were killed in his revolution. Not only that, the form of communism they were pushing in latin america was quite authoritarian, and not very conducive to true freedom and equality, the core belief in communism.

I didn't mean to say that Che was a pop icon to everyone, but most people I have ever met that have Che shirts/flags/etc couldn't tell you a damn thing about him other than "revolutionary."

Sorry to hear that the folks you meet with Che sloganish craaaap are so lame and superfluous. Could it possibly be because they were never taught what Che did, what he stood for? I'm sorry man, but the logic is faulty. I'm still waiting for the atrocities list.... is it something like "Shooting an elected President in the mouth in HIS office, taking over a country, disappearing it's youth and children, and supporting a ruthless SOB as dictator because GOD FORBID Chileans CHOOSE socialism as a way of life?" OH WAIT, that was the US government getting rid of President Allende in Chile. But perhaps that's too much to ask --- because who gives a flying fart about Chile anyways? (Mil disculpas a mis hermanos Chilenos, de corazon)

Read Chomsky's latest compendium -- quite entertaining.

Peace out.

[AnewKINDofFEELIN 0]

Number 2: We would have won the war in the Pacific without Little Boy and Fat Man, but they were able to hasten the signing of the surrender papers by the Japanese. I can't believe people could ever justify that decision. Seriously, 220,000 people died. This doesn't include the ones who have been dying horrible deaths for the last 62 years.

Who the heck is we? I'm sure you would look at it way differently if you were an 18 year old draftee like my dad was in WW2. You don't hear the guys that risked their necks fighting the Japanese crying any tears for nuking Japan. It's f*cking war. It ain't pretty.

We = the United States

I'll agree with that to a certain extent. I just think that, from a humanitarian perspective, we could have won with far less deaths. I just feel like we, as a nation, are supposed to stand above the "savages," not their bodies.

[AnewKINDofFEELIN 0]

Che has become a pop icon more than anything with pseudo-liberals around the world. Most people aren't aware of the atrocities he committed and just know that he was a revolutionary. He did make a lot of positive changes in Latin America, but not enough to justify the means.

I really hope this isn't the kind of thing that Obama condones within his campaign, and I'm sure he's not stupid enough to do so. However, we saw how stupid even the most respected politicians can be when Bubba started opening his mouth.

Che is not a "pop icon" --- that would be for the idiots who just buy T-shirts with his face in them without having a clue what Che stood for.

But by all means, please enlighten us stupid Latin Americans, who did learn about Ernesto Che Guevara's struggle and work in school about this "atrocities" you are so keen to point out.

If some candidates actually look up to Reagan as a role model, I'd rather have Che Guevara as one. Every day and twice on Sundays.

Peace brother, L.

Sorry, but I'm not buying it. Che started off with good intentions but got overly cynical along the way and a LOT of people were killed in his revolution. Not only that, the form of communism they were pushing in latin america was quite authoritarian, and not very conducive to true freedom and equality, the core belief in communism.

I didn't mean to say that Che was a pop icon to everyone, but most people I have ever met that have Che shirts/flags/etc couldn't tell you a damn thing about him other than "revolutionary."

Sorry to hear that the folks you meet with Che sloganish craaaap are so lame and superfluous. Could it possibly be because they were never taught what Che did, what he stood for? I'm sorry man, but the logic is faulty. I'm still waiting for the atrocities list.... is it something like "Shooting an elected President in the mouth in HIS office, taking over a country, disappearing it's youth and children, and supporting a ruthless SOB as dictator because GOD FORBID Chileans CHOOSE socialism as a way of life?" OH WAIT, that was the US government getting rid of President Allende in Chile. But perhaps that's too much to ask --- because who gives a flying fart about Chile anyways? (Mil disculpas a mis hermanos Chilenos, de corazon)

Read Chomsky's latest compendium -- quite entertaining.

Peace out.

Have I once defended the United States' dealing in South America? No, but to say that Che was a saint is naive at best.

The guy oversaw the public execution of supporters of the regime before Castro.

I don't claim to be a Che biographer, but I will never accept him as the Patron Saint of Freedom like many do.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Have I once defended the United States' dealing in South America? No, but to say that Che was a saint is naive at best.

The guy oversaw the public execution of supporters of the regime before Castro.

I don't claim to be a Che biographer, but I will never accept him as the Patron Saint of Freedom like many do.

And that's your absolute right my friend-- just don't come around posting like a biographer, or a connoisseur. Hey! I don't believe Jesus was the son of God, or that the Bible contains God's word -- but if folks find solace in that idea, I am happy for them. I really am.

peace brother.

[AnewKINDofFEELIN 0]

Have I once defended the United States' dealing in South America? No, but to say that Che was a saint is naive at best.

The guy oversaw the public execution of supporters of the regime before Castro.

I don't claim to be a Che biographer, but I will never accept him as the Patron Saint of Freedom like many do.

And that's your absolute right my friend-- just don't come around posting like a biographer, or a connoisseur. Hey! I don't believe Jesus was the son of God, or that the Bible contains God's word -- but if folks find solace in that idea, I am happy for them. I really am.

peace brother.

Definitely, and I wasn't trying to make a judgement about people who actually know his history better than I do. I just know that, in America, he has become nothing more than a pop icon. This is actually something that I detest.

[Reynaldo 0]

ooooo

a Che flag...

He is a stinking communist...

Let's not elect him....

ooooo

What a joke....

[kaydee457 13]

No offense, but Bush has killed more people than Che.

I know what that smiley means...you disagree with me but you have no intelligent or substantial argument to make.

could be he's waiting for a intelligent or substantial statement for you

My substantial statement is that, as horrible as Che is, there are certain American politicians who have done FAR worse (Truman, anyone). However, people would not look at a house with a picture of Truman and try to use it as a means to discredit the homeowners father.

The difference here is that they did so lawfully to protect your liberties and your right to come into these forums and trash them.

You do understand that war is a necessary evil, don't you? I'll go out on a limb here and say that you'd be one of the first to cry foul when you can't fill up your flowered volkswagen bus, and the first to cry that it's your goverments fault that you can't.

Always blame the USA first......

Bush went to war lawfully. We were attacked by Islamist extremeist, get it? We went to war in IRAQ on the best available intellegence, period. You and I are not privvy to all info that a US President has so let's not go to the loopy liberal conspiracy #######, please!

Liberals, sheesh!

Bush did NOT go to war lawfully, for one. We were attacked by the men of Bin Laden, who is still free because we got distracted by Iraq. I actually agree with the decision to remove Saddam from power. However, it is our refusal to leave middle eastern countries that leads to terrorism against us. Just listen to what they say.

The legality of Truman dropping two nuclear bombs which killed 220,000 people, most of them civilians. Quite frankly, he acted in haste and many lives were lost unnecessarily.

I love how I am seen as a liberal by the right wingers and a damned neo-con by the left wingers on this site. I'm an open-minded moderate who wades through the ####### begrudgingly.

my thoughts to you? Stay off those lefty looney sites! I cannot even put up a serious argument rebutting this jibberage. I'll let it stand for what it is!

[jundp 191]

And since when is Che Guevara a "communist mass murderer" --- give me a freaking break people - educate yourselves in Che's struggle before ranting about it. Ignorance is bliss, other times....

Thank you. If you want to call Che a mass murderer, then call a spade a spade and let's talk about Bush.

No offense, but Bush has killed more people than Che.

I know what that smiley means...you disagree with me but you have no intelligent or substantial argument to make.

could be he's waiting for a intelligent or substantial statement for you

My substantial statement is that, as horrible as Che is, there are certain American politicians who have done FAR worse (Truman, anyone). However, people would not look at a house with a picture of Truman and try to use it as a means to discredit the homeowners father.

The difference here is that they did so lawfully to protect your liberties and your right to come into these forums and trash them.

You do understand that war is a necessary evil, don't you? I'll go out on a limb here and say that you'd be one of the first to cry foul when you can't fill up your flowered volkswagen bus, and the first to cry that it's your goverments fault that you can't.

Always blame the USA first......

Bush went to war lawfully. We were attacked by Islamist extremeist, get it? We went to war in IRAQ on the best available intellegence, period. You and I are not privvy to all info that a US President has so let's not go to the loopy liberal conspiracy #######, please!

Liberals, sheesh!

Liberals, sheesh. VJ sheesh.

I consider going to war under false pretenses (WMD'S...and after Osama OH WAIT, WRONG COUNTRY) to be despicable. We were attacked by Islamist extremists and though we may not be privvy to the information the US President has, I would hardly say that to oppose the war in Iraw is loopy liberal conspiracy #######.

Edited February 14, 2008 by jundp

[AnewKINDofFEELIN 0]

my thoughts to you? Stay off those lefty looney sites! I cannot even put up a serious argument rebutting this jibberage. I'll let it stand for what it is!

I'm a republican, you twit.

[♥JP♥ 5]

Come on guys! it looks like Obama has a fair chance of becoming the US president...the most powerfull position in the world! are you seriously more interested in a personal flame war than discussing this issue?? *sigh*

Saludos,

Caro

Seriously! I mean what are all the anti-Obama people going to do if he becomes president? Sit in a corner and cry?

[Empress of Groovy 373]

Bush did NOT go to war lawfully, for one. We were attacked by the men of Bin Laden, who is still free because we got distracted by Iraq. I actually agree with the decision to remove Saddam from power. However, it is our refusal to leave middle eastern countries that leads to terrorism against us. Just listen to what they say.

The legality of Truman dropping two nuclear bombs which killed 220,000 people, most of them civilians. Quite frankly, he acted in haste and many lives were lost unnecessarily.

I love how I am seen as a liberal by the right wingers and a damned neo-con by the left wingers on this site. I'm an open-minded moderate who wades through the ####### begrudgingly.

my thoughts to you? Stay off those lefty looney sites! I cannot even put up a serious argument rebutting this jibberage. I'll let it stand for what it is!

Kaydee, you may want to read up on current mainstream thought about the perceived necessity of bombing Japan. Even the Bradbury Science Museum in Los Alamos has amended its exhibits to acknowledge that perhaps it was not necessary. And the entire museum is devoted to the history of the Manhattan Project (most of it conveyed in proud narrative). Tucked away in a corner--but there nonetheless--are pictures of the aftermath and some text that maybe it wasn't necessary. This says a whole lot, I'd say.

Edited February 14, 2008 by AOS despair

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Bush did NOT go to war lawfully, for one. We were attacked by the men of Bin Laden, who is still free because we got distracted by Iraq. I actually agree with the decision to remove Saddam from power. However, it is our refusal to leave middle eastern countries that leads to terrorism against us. Just listen to what they say.

The legality of Truman dropping two nuclear bombs which killed 220,000 people, most of them civilians. Quite frankly, he acted in haste and many lives were lost unnecessarily.

I love how I am seen as a liberal by the right wingers and a damned neo-con by the left wingers on this site. I'm an open-minded moderate who wades through the ####### begrudgingly.

my thoughts to you? Stay off those lefty looney sites! I cannot even put up a serious argument rebutting this jibberage. I'll let it stand for what it is!

Kaydee, you may want to read up on current mainstream thought about the perceived necessity of bombing Japan. Even the Bradbury Science Museum in Los Alamos has amended its exhibits to acknowledge that perhaps it was not necessary. And the entire museum is devoted to the history of the Manhattan Project (most of it conveyed in proud narrative). Tucked away in a corner--but there nonetheless--are pictures of the aftermath and some text that maybe it wasn't necessary. This says a whole lot, I'd say.

There are historical sources speaking during the WW2 period or soon after, who have suggested that the nuclear bombings were unnecessary - several of them high-level folks in the military.

As for Obama + Che = Hitler/Nazi/Totalitarian wannabe (presumably this is the thinking here), that's just silly.

Edited February 15, 2008 by Number 6