Sinsord

[tomissan 0]

Also, they are asking for sinsord (dowry). I know that sinsord (or sin sot) is customary in Issan, but can anyone tell me what is reasonable? She is over 25 and has a couple of kids. I do love her, and don't want to upset anyone, or show disrespect, but I also want to feel that I am not being just taken advantage of. The amount being asked for is 200,000 baht. This is financially difficult, but if is a fair amount according to custom, I could handle it.

Any advice would really be appreciated.

Hi Philjac,

I just happen to come across this forum and saw your post so I joined so that I could help clear things up, perhaps not...but I'll give it a go...

"Sin Sod" is the marriage price, the word "Sin" means riches, things of value. In the past it might have been farm animals, farm products, land, or some such. Now money is used as the thing of value. "Sod" is the act of storing away, or holding the "Sin". Long ago it could have been keeping the "Sin" if it was a farm animal in a secure fenced area. Now the "Sin" would be likely stored by depositing the money into a bank. The amount will vary due to several factors such as, the social status and wealth of the parents, the education, age, and beauty of the daughter. The cost of the ceremonies, parties, food, etc., will be paid by the parents using part of the Sin Sod.

I understand that as a Westerner you think this sounds like selling ones daughter but the Thai culture has a completely different idea about it. They believe a prospective husband owes them for bringing up the daughter to be a proper lady and wife. Second you are replacing the labor she would have contributed to the family wealth. Third you are demonstrating you have the financial ability to support a family. Thai's are very strict about going along with their culture.

The "Tong Mun" and sometimes the "Sin Sod" will be presented at a betrothal ceremony called a "Phitee Mun," which will take place at the parents home. There may be a small group of family and friends present for the ceremony which involves the introduction of the groom by a friend, giving of the gifts, promises by the groom to take care of the daughter, and acceptance by the parents. You and your lady are now considered to be "Koo Mun" which means "tied or joined couple," (engaged.) Afterward there will be a meal served, and conversation.

Sometime later, it could be the same day, next day, next week, or whatever date set by the "Koo Mun," there will be the actual wedding ceremonies.

The "Bai Sri Soo Kwan" ceremony. The "Bai Sri" is a symbolic ornament put together by the women of the village using banana leaves, rice, flowers, and string. "Soo Kwan" is a sermon given by a village elder. The ceremony concludes by each guest tying a string around the wrist of the bride and of the groom, while giving the married couple their blessings, followed by the placing of a garland of flowers around the couples necks. There will be a meal, music, and "Ram Vong" dancing if there is room

My personal opinion is this: because she has a couple children and she has been married before, the Sin Sod is highly negotiable and the family of your fiance' knows this. As mentioned above, the parents pay for the local wedding from the Sin Sod so you're not expected to pay any more....,( 50k baht should be sufficient explaining to them that you will need the money you have for travel expenses and to help take care of their daughter) I've lived in Thailand for nearly 20 years, 15 of them in Isaan and have witnessed and learned alot....I hope this information has been of some use to you....Cheers, Tom (p.s. I'm also from So.Cal)

[mr4422 0]

the best thing I can do is just tell you how it worked for me:

BACKGROUND: My wife was never married and has no kids, she has a college degree and has lived and worked in BKK for 13 years. She had recently bought an apartment/condo the year before we met, and has been contributing to her familys house and needs in Kalasin since she left. She has two sisters, both married, and both with kids.

during my first meeting with the family in Dec 2004, the night before we did the engagment ceremony, there was a long exchange between me and her family concerning what I was bringing to the table as far as and engagment necklace (they wanted 5 baht gold, I could only offer 1 baht as I was unemployed at the time). We also discussed when I would come back to get married (Dec 2005), and how much money I would offer the family. Eventually we agreed I would provide 4 baht gold and $2K (about 80K B.). Plus, I would pay about $1K for the food/entertainment. So I had about 1 year to save for this. Plus I had to factor in the cost of my round trip flight and her one way ticket back.

We did not start the K-1 visa process until June 2005.

I don't know if that helps you any, but to this day I still think that $2K was still seemingly high. But I figured that I was only going to have a simple civil ceremony here and so this would actaully be a cheap wedding all things considered.

We did, however, get back through donations, about 25K baht. SWEET. that really took the edge of. and can you imagine me carrying around 80,000 baht?. I exchanged funds at the BKK airport before we flew to Khon Kaen. So I had 80 1,000B bills with me!

[Matt_Stevens 5]

Cool photos at your website.

[Yodrak 7]

mr,

Given your wife's circumstances as you describe them, I think the 80,000 B sinsot was reasonable.

Yodrak

the best thing I can do is just tell you how it worked for me:

BACKGROUND: My wife was never married and has no kids, she has a college degree and has lived and worked in BKK for 13 years. She had recently bought an apartment/condo the year before we met, and has been contributing to her familys house and needs in Kalasin since she left. ....

during my first meeting with the family in Dec 2004, the night before we did the engagment ceremony, there was a long exchange between me and her family concerning what I was bringing to the table as far as and engagment necklace (they wanted 5 baht gold, I could only offer 1 baht as I was unemployed at the time). .... Eventually we agreed I would provide 4 baht gold and $2K (about 80K B.). Plus, I would pay about $1K for the food/entertainment. ....

....

I don't know if that helps you any, but to this day I still think that $2K was still seemingly high. ...

[stang_01 0]

I send you some advice. A Thai lady over 25 with kids is nowhere like a Thai lady with no kids. Mine is 22 and the Dowry I plan on paying is 100,000 baht and that should be good. The Dowry is on the norm higher for women with no kids and younger however once they have kids in the Thai parents eye they are not as desirable so the price goes down. You set the dowry price not them. You will probably have to negotiate some. If you get a book called Thailand Fever it will tell you about the dowry and a lot of other stuff you may want to know.

[tuk_fred 0]

Hi there, .. first .. I'm Thai. Hope this will help you decide what you want to do .. (sorry if my english is not good good )

Dowry, why dowry? .. Thai thinks this way... after the daugthers get marry, she's not belonging to her family anymore .. but normally every childrens should support their parent when they grow up. Because most Thai people don't have retirement plan, they don't even know what is retirement. Some might have saving money but some minght not. This money could help them when they couldn't work anymore. Most of the case (if the family is not just after money) the bride parent would give the dowry back .. may be half, may be all .. base on her family.

I don't like the sound that your g/f decides to have ceremony AFTER you guys start working on paper to get her to us. I think this should be discuss before you think about starting your life together.. not add it later. But .. wedding ceremony would show your respect to her family. But since she already has 2 kids, the dowry shouldn't be that much.

I think you should talk to her, where would the money goes? do you still have to pay for the ceremony, party, ring??? is it possible to pay less than 200,000? ... don't afraid to talk, you're starting your life together. that money could save to buy a ticket for her to visit Thailand later or bring her family to visit her later .. or do something ..

Good Luck

Edited May 29, 2006 by tuk_fred

[tang1979 0]

I totally agree with ROI and Tirman!

200,000 baht is way too much for a woman with 2 kids. If she loves you, money would be not an issue here. Most thai people think farang have too much money. When I was in thailand, I always talked about farang have money, big home, new car...this is why your fiancee asked for big sinsot.

Good luck

Bill

Hi all.

I agree with ROI and Tirman and you too! why......too much money for Married ? I think she no Love him sure, Love money and want to have farrang for make new house and many things she want.

do you know? I am single but have sin sot for married 70,000 Baht not stupid for get small money but me Love Him no Love his money.

now me live in Kentucky

Good Luck all

[ding 1]

80k very is generous given the situation. Congrats! and good luck. Mine was returned but I paid for food and drinks. I did the "money show" route to save face for the family but paid a lot for foor and drinks. My situation was complicated, however, and my plans changed just before the ceremony.

[birch- phuk_beer 0]

I just went through this regarding the sin sot.

My wife and I were married through the ceremony on March 27. I paid a sinsot (amount is nobody's friggin business in a public forum) but I will say 80% was given back to me......Its a face saving thing, and yes, a Thai marrying a falang will be higher than marrying another Thai. Dont let anyone make your decision for you, follow your gut instinct but I have to agree, with 2 kids is less.

We had a HUGE wedding...and I mean HUGE. I paid more than stated here. I paid 65,000 bhat alone for the flowers, photographer, wedding clothes-organizing company.....

We then went to the US embassy, got the necessary documents and went to the Thail gov. and legally married on March 31, changed her name, etc..........

So, as long as you dont do the swearing in bit at the Amphour, your not legally married, can still do the K-1..........