Sinsord

[philjac 0]

Does anyone have any advice? All papers have now been submitted, and we are now waiting for an appointment for the interview. My fiancee has now informed me that before coming here, she and her mother want us to have a Thai wedding. She said that she won't register it yet, so it won't affect the fiancee status. Does anyone know if this is correct, or if we are committing a fraud that could create problems for her getting her green card?

Also, they are asking for sinsord (dowry). I know that sinsord (or sin sot) is customary in Issan, but can anyone tell me what is reasonable? She is over 25 and has a couple of kids. I do love her, and don't want to upset anyone, or show disrespect, but I also want to feel that I am not being just taken advantage of. The amount being asked for is 200,000 baht. This is financially difficult, but if is a fair amount according to custom, I could handle it.

Any advice would really be appreciated.

[ryecatcher25 0]

5300 us dollars?!? and you cover all costs of wedding too i suppose. (uncontrollable laughing) sorry but i think her family will be laughing all the way to the bank. I'd say "sure 5300 dollars is ok. Know your family simply has to provide for airfaire back to united states for her, all visa fees, phone calls, ect."

[*Robert* 2]

Does anyone have any advice? All papers have now been submitted, and we are now waiting for an appointment for the interview. My fiancee has now informed me that before coming here, she and her mother want us to have a Thai wedding. She said that she won't register it yet, so it won't affect the fiancee status. Does anyone know if this is correct, or if we are committing a fraud that could create problems for her getting her green card?

Also, they are asking for sinsord (dowry). I know that sinsord (or sin sot) is customary in Issan, but can anyone tell me what is reasonable? She is over 25 and has a couple of kids. I do love her, and don't want to upset anyone, or show disrespect, but I also want to feel that I am not being just taken advantage of. The amount being asked for is 200,000 baht. This is financially difficult, but if is a fair amount according to custom, I could handle it.

Any advice would really be appreciated.

First of all, this isn't a good topic for the K-1 general discussion area. Second, you can have an engagement ceremony, and as long as you don't register with the Amphur, you will not be legally married in accordance with Thai law.

As far as sin sod is concerned, it is not just an Isaan custom, it is a Thai custom. It is also based on the status of the bride. For example, if she has a college degree, what kind of job she has, if she's never been married, and no children, along with her family status, makes her sin sod higher. To be very blunt... a woman with children does not normally warrent any kind of sin sod, since she is not "pure". I don't have the link to it right now, but you can find many articles written concerning the sin sod, and whether or not it should be paid, and how much to be paid. It is also a Thai custom, not a Farang custom.

In my opinion... 200,000 baht in this case is totally unreasonable. This is something that should have been discussed LONG before now!

Good luck.

5300 us dollars?!? and you cover all costs of wedding too i suppose. (uncontrollable laughing) sorry but i think her family will be laughing all the way to the bank. I'd say "sure 5300 dollars is ok. Know your family simply has to provide for airfaire back to united states for her, all visa fees, phone calls, ect."

This is why you should not post, about this kind of topic, in an open forum, becuase of people like this who are not involved with a Thai, and don't respect other peoples situations.

Edited April 26, 2006 by roi_aggie

[Tiksman 0]

I agree bad place to discuss.. 200k is way to much for someone with kids.. They should be asking for very little. Not many Thai men will marry a woman with kids!!

If she loves you and wants to be with you. She will stay if there is no dowry.

I have no Dowry.

Her dad just wants someone who loves and will care for his little girl..

And that is me!!

[Billy 0]

I totally agree with ROI and Tirman!

200,000 baht is way too much for a woman with 2 kids. If she loves you, money would be not an issue here. Most thai people think farang have too much money. When I was in thailand, I always talked about farang have money, big home, new car...this is why your fiancee asked for big sinsot.

Good luck

Bill

[meddykomp 0]

I will be the first to admit that I know nothing of Thai custom, but based on what roi_aggie said, it doesnt sound like a dowry is warranted. Does the dowry go to your fiance or her family? If it goes to the family, then maybe a compromise could be met where you set aside some money for her or for her children in an account, maybe for education expenses. If this is the love of your life, then you will find you will most likely be paying for some educational expenses anyway. Good Luck!

Angel

[Yodrak 7]

philjac,

Having the wedding is no problem as long as you and she don't bring it to the attention of consular or USCIS officials. It's the registration, not the wedding ceremony, that creates a marriage in Thailand - no registration no marriage, and having a wedding ceremony is not a requirement to register a marriage.

You want to avoid telling the consular officers because, although they will understand the situation perfectly, they may nevertheless ask for a 'certificate of singleness' (see some posts on this 'certificate' in the Sawasdee thread) to have documentation for the file that there has been no registration. You want to avoid telling the USCIS because they will not understand at all and you may have difficulty explaining the situation to their satisfaction.

With regard to the sinsot, what is going to happen to the money? Who is going to get it when the show is over?

What concerns me the most about your situation is the timing of the discussion of these issues. These are things that should have been discussed, if not agreed on, before you and your fiancee began the immigration process. I am concerned about her intentions, and your 'due dilligence', seeing these issues not come up until after the visa application has been submitted.

Yodrak

Does anyone have any advice? All papers have now been submitted, and we are now waiting for an appointment for the interview. My fiancee has now informed me that before coming here, she and her mother want us to have a Thai wedding. She said that she won't register it yet, so it won't affect the fiancee status. Does anyone know if this is correct, or if we are committing a fraud that could create problems for her getting her green card?

Also, they are asking for sinsord (dowry). I know that sinsord (or sin sot) is customary in Issan, but can anyone tell me what is reasonable? She is over 25 and has a couple of kids. I do love her, and don't want to upset anyone, or show disrespect, but I also want to feel that I am not being just taken advantage of. The amount being asked for is 200,000 baht. This is financially difficult, but if is a fair amount according to custom, I could handle it.

Any advice would really be appreciated.

Edited April 26, 2006 by Yodrak

[Matt_Stevens 5]

I just called my Thai friend and asked him about this. He gave me two words: RIP and OFF.

[Yodrak 7]

Matt_Stevens,

Depends on who keeps the money after the wedding is over. Sometimes the bride will get it (in which case it further depends on, and may reveal, the true basis of the relationship) and sometimes the groom will get some or all of it back.

Yodrak

I just called my Thai friend and asked him about this. He gave me two words: RIP and OFF.

[Mike n Huong 1]

Although my fiancee is not from Thailand, I was put into the same situation about the gift of money. The amount was not nearly as much, and since it was a tradition I totally understood. When it came to this point, her father had a private conversation afterwards with me and my fiancee. As he held the envelope in his hand, he explained to me about this tradition, and how important it is to them. Then he thanked me, and began to speak to me about our future together. Althought they could definately use the money, he wanted me to keep it for our future together. He felt it was necessary for me to follow the tradition, but returned the money.

As for the wedding, does Vietnam follow the same rule that it is not a marriage unless you get the certificate? My question is if you were to get married, but don't go for the certificate, and then you get a single status paper months after the last visit showing that you are both single and able to marry, then would this still be a problem? I just don't see why it would be if you are legally single by providing the single status paper. It is nice for the couple to have the ceremony for the beneficiaries parents, since more than likely they won't be ablt to attend the wedding in the US.

What are your thoughts?

[Jasman0717 9]

5300 us dollars?!? and you cover all costs of wedding too i suppose. (uncontrollable laughing) sorry but i think her family will be laughing all the way to the bank. I'd say "sure 5300 dollars is ok. Know your family simply has to provide for airfaire back to united states for her, all visa fees, phone calls, ect."

$5300 is a lot of money In the Philippines that could be up to 5 years income

[patricks 0]

www dot stickmanbangkok dot com

This is a rated G site from a Bangkok local who has addressed this exact issue many times

Do a search on his site for "sin sot" or look at the "weekly columns" from the past 6 months.

Good Luck and remember........Mai Pen Rai Kop (no problem)

[Yodrak 7]

mike1972e,

Sounds like you married into a good family.

In Thailand marriage consists of going to the local registry office and signing some papers. That's getting married. A wedding ceremony is not getting married, it's just a ceremony and means nothing except to the people involved.

A 'single status paper' would consist of going to the local registry office with a couple of witnesses and writing out an affidavit saying in effect "I have never registered a marriage." The affiant signs the statement, the witnesses sign the statement (or write and sign similar statements of their own), the registry officer signs the statements and stamps it all over with a red seal.

Yodrak

Although my fiancee is not from Thailand, I was put into the same situation about the gift of money. The amount was not nearly as much, and since it was a tradition I totally understood. When it came to this point, her father had a private conversation afterwards with me and my fiancee. As he held the envelope in his hand, he explained to me about this tradition, and how important it is to them. Then he thanked me, and began to speak to me about our future together. Althought they could definately use the money, he wanted me to keep it for our future together. He felt it was necessary for me to follow the tradition, but returned the money.

As for the wedding, does Vietnam follow the same rule that it is not a marriage unless you get the certificate? My question is if you were to get married, but don't go for the certificate, and then you get a single status paper ...

What are your thoughts?

[Mike n Huong 1]

[ quote name=Yodrak' date='Apr 28 2006, 06:11 PM' post='160366]

mike1972e,

Sounds like you married into a good family.

In Thailand marriage consists of going to the local registry office and signing some papers. That's getting married. A wedding ceremony is not getting married, it's just a ceremony and means nothing except to the people involved.

A 'single status paper' would consist of going to the local registry office with a couple of witnesses and writing out an affidavit saying in effect "I have never registered a marriage." The affiant signs the statement, the witnesses sign the statement (or write and sign similar statements of their own), the registry officer signs the statements and stamps it all over with a red seal.

Yodrak

[ /quote]

So if the person who started this thread followed thru with their plans, would getting the single status paper prevent any delay if they told the interviewer that they had a ceremony so their family and friends could take part, but never intended on having a legal marriage? Does this same law apply in Vietnam? DOes a marriage in Vietnam only become a true marriage if it is registered?

[Yodrak 7]

Mike,

If philjac agrees to his fiancee's desire to have a Thai wedding ceremony he and she should remain silent about it to avoid the hassle of possibly having to prove that they are not married. Such action is not hiding anything, it's simply not providing information that's not relevant anyway.

I know nothing of the marriage laws of Vietnam.

Yodrak

[ quote name=Yodrak' date='Apr 28 2006, 06:11 PM' post='160366]

mike1972e,

Sounds like you married into a good family.

In Thailand marriage consists of going to the local registry office and signing some papers. That's getting married. A wedding ceremony is not getting married, it's just a ceremony and means nothing except to the people involved.

A 'single status paper' would consist of going to the local registry office with a couple of witnesses and writing out an affidavit saying in effect "I have never registered a marriage." The affiant signs the statement, the witnesses sign the statement (or write and sign similar statements of their own), the registry officer signs the statements and stamps it all over with a red seal.

Yodrak

[ /quote]

So if the person who started this thread followed thru with their plans, would getting the single status paper prevent any delay if they told the interviewer that they had a ceremony so their family and friends could take part, but never intended on having a legal marriage? Does this same law apply in Vietnam? DOes a marriage in Vietnam only become a true marriage if it is registered?