Can Mrs. Clinton Lose?

[no name 1]

Barack Obama has momentum and appeal - that is undeniable - but I have heard MANY Democrats (from people as diverse as my socially conservative Reagan Democrat parents to my young black coworkers to my gay neighbour) say they like the guy but are concerned about his lack of experience.

She has 75,000 donors since Tuesday. I'm not sure people knew she needed $$ til that story came out about her loan.

Hillary's Women

by: Matt Stoller

Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 20:48

Let's put the Obama activist and donor numbers in perspective - 650,000 donors is a lot, but John Kerry had around 2 million donors, and George Bush had roughly as many. Richard Viguerie and Roger Craver, direct mail gurus, have frequently noted that there are roughly 10 million political direct mail donors in this country total, though that number might have changed. What is novel about the Obama campaign is not the number of donors but the involvement of those people in his campaign. They are working in caucuses and volunteering, not just giving. This has been a strategy since the beginning.

What is remarkable about the last 48 hours is the haul by the Hillary Clinton campaign of around $7 million from 45,000 online donors or so. These are suburban women who probably haven't been part of the culture of online giving, and who for some reason have started to contribute. The Clinton campaign has organized its online activities around streaming media, the Hillary chats and videos, the Sopranos video, and the Celine Dionne song contest. Internally, the media heavies are probably in charge. What happened now, though, is that the Clinton campaign just tapped out of its McAuliffe big dollar donors, and Clinton was forced to rely on her real base - the women who love her. And unwittingly, with her showing in the Super Tuesday states and her $5 million donation to her own campaign, she asked them for support in a way she never had. And they responded.

It's remarkable, because it is converting voters and supporters into activists and donors, only it's probably not the creative class anymore. Clinton, like Dean, became an underdog, a real underdog, with more public support than Village support, and her public directly responded over the internet to close this gap.

In other words, the Obama campaign has had a strategy of cultivating online donors and activists, they know how to do it, and they are very good at it. The Clinton campaign has not done any of this particularly well because it hasn't been their strategy. And somehow, they are at rough parity over the last 48 hours. There is probably something of an earthquake inside the Clinton campaign when these tired Clinton operatives, cynical for 20 years, actually feel, really feel, her supporters reach out and lift them up for the first time.

link

I'm not sure I buy this "she is losing" argument - she won several big states on Super Tuesday. Obama's failure to capture California is a huge setback. She won big in other key states.

The "everyone hates Clinton" thing is totally overblown - in many states more votes were cast for her than the Republican frontrunner, including states she lost.

True but what would 'they' b*tch about if there's wasn't a woman running for Prez?

For the last f%^*ing time, no one cares that she's a woman, they care that she's an idiot. I don't think there's anyone here who wouldn't vote for a woman if they represented their views and seemed capable of the job. Being a drama queen and whining that it's only because she's a woman is why people don't take you seriously and post things that "cause" you to report every single anti-Hillary thread on the board.

Even the Feminists have more sense than that, since they endorsed Obama - and I don't hear them whining about people not voting for Hillary because she's a woman...

This post is also one of a drama queen

[DeadPoolX 9]

I'm not sure I buy this "she is losing" argument - she won several big states on Super Tuesday. Obama's failure to capture California is a huge setback. She won big in other key states.

The "everyone hates Clinton" thing is totally overblown - in many states more votes were cast for her than the Republican frontrunner, including states she lost.

True but what would 'they' b*tch about if there's wasn't a woman running for Prez?

Yeah right, everyone that hates Hillary does so because she is a woman. Pretty narrow view you got there. No other reason is even possible right?

I have absolutely no problem voting for a woman. I just dislike Hillary Clinton. Unfortunately, it actually seems that she's the most "conservative" out of the Democratic candidates, which is a pretty scary thought.

Yet she is basically in agreement with John McCain on many issues

Whoever said I liked McCain?

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

I'm not sure I buy this "she is losing" argument - she won several big states on Super Tuesday. Obama's failure to capture California is a huge setback. She won big in other key states.

The "everyone hates Clinton" thing is totally overblown - in many states more votes were cast for her than the Republican frontrunner, including states she lost.

True but what would 'they' b*tch about if there's wasn't a woman running for Prez?

Yeah right, everyone that hates Hillary does so because she is a woman. Pretty narrow view you got there. No other reason is even possible right?

I have absolutely no problem voting for a woman. I just dislike Hillary Clinton. Unfortunately, it actually seems that she's the most "conservative" out of the Democratic candidates, which is a pretty scary thought.

Yet she is basically in agreement with John McCain on many issues

Whoever said I liked McCain?

No one! Just sayin......

[AnewKINDofFEELIN 0]

She loses at life.

[Cassandra+Yuibi 0]

My husband said he was sorry for Bill having to go to sleep with Hillary the night after super Tuesday.

Then we really thought about it, and realized how ridiculous it was to assume Bill would actually be going to bed with his WIFE.

Anyway, as for the topic at hand. I think Hillary will have a mental breakdown if she doesn't win. And I'm excited to see what it's like when I robot has a mental breakdown.

[Peikko 1,575]

Unbelievable. I have to find out what abominable crime Mrs Clinton has pepetrated to allow for these kinds of comments. It's one thing to find her policies and beliefs contrary to one's own but all this transference of hate to her as a person is just bizarre.

[no name 1]

Unbelievable. I have to find out what abominable crime Mrs Clinton has pepetrated to allow for these kinds of comments. It's one thing to find her policies and beliefs contrary to one's own but all this transference of hate to her as a person is just bizarre.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Apparently advocating violence against women is OK on VJ, too, altho it's not because she's a woman.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Unbelievable. I have to find out what abominable crime Mrs Clinton has pepetrated to allow for these kinds of comments. It's one thing to find her policies and beliefs contrary to one's own but all this transference of hate to her as a person is just bizarre.

I think its multi-layered. For one, she's a public figure and most public figures are either despised (ex. Brittany Spears) or adored (Princess Diana). Second, she is a political figure and politicians are often despised simply based on their political views as well as voting record. Third, she has said and done some things in during this campaign that have cause many people to wonder about her integrity. Bill Clinton faced a similar amount of despise. And then of course, she conveys to many, the embodiment of a strong feminist and some find that repulsive.

My overall impression is that both Clintons seem to have the capacity to be well liked by some, and really despised by others and it goes beyond just their political views. However, the same thing could be said about Nixon, Carter, Reagan, and the two Bushes. So while I think there may be an element of misogyny in it, I don't see her sex as fueling the flames.

[no name 1]

Unbelievable. I have to find out what abominable crime Mrs Clinton has pepetrated to allow for these kinds of comments. It's one thing to find her policies and beliefs contrary to one's own but all this transference of hate to her as a person is just bizarre.

I think its multi-layered. For one, she's a public figure and most public figures are either despised (ex. Brittany Spears) or adored (Princess Diana). Second, she is a political figure and politicians are often despised simply based on their political views as well as voting record. Third, she has said and done some things in during this campaign that have cause many people to wonder about her integrity. Bill Clinton faced a similar amount of despise. And then of course, she conveys to many, the embodiment of a strong feminist and some find that repulsive.

My overall impression is that both Clintons seem to have the capacity to be well liked by some, and really despised by others and it goes beyond just their political views. However, the same thing could be said about Nixon, Carter, Reagan, and the two Bushes. So while I think there may be an element of misogyny in it, I don't see her sex as fueling the flames.

Tell me, where is the thread where people want to beat up Obama or McCain or GWB?

Oh yes, it doesn't exist.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Unbelievable. I have to find out what abominable crime Mrs Clinton has pepetrated to allow for these kinds of comments. It's one thing to find her policies and beliefs contrary to one's own but all this transference of hate to her as a person is just bizarre.

I think its multi-layered. For one, she's a public figure and most public figures are either despised (ex. Brittany Spears) or adored (Princess Diana). Second, she is a political figure and politicians are often despised simply based on their political views as well as voting record. Third, she has said and done some things in during this campaign that have cause many people to wonder about her integrity. Bill Clinton faced a similar amount of despise. And then of course, she conveys to many, the embodiment of a strong feminist and some find that repulsive.

My overall impression is that both Clintons seem to have the capacity to be well liked by some, and really despised by others and it goes beyond just their political views. However, the same thing could be said about Nixon, Carter, Reagan, and the two Bushes. So while I think there may be an element of misogyny in it, I don't see her sex as fueling the flames.

Tell me, where is the thread where people want to beat up Obama or McCain or GWB?

Oh yes, it doesn't exist.

That's true, but I'd make a distinction between the rantings by a select few here on VJ and the rest of population. I have yet to see any editorials or reputable political blogs talking about beating any of the candidates up.

[no name 1]

Unbelievable. I have to find out what abominable crime Mrs Clinton has pepetrated to allow for these kinds of comments. It's one thing to find her policies and beliefs contrary to one's own but all this transference of hate to her as a person is just bizarre.

I think its multi-layered. For one, she's a public figure and most public figures are either despised (ex. Brittany Spears) or adored (Princess Diana). Second, she is a political figure and politicians are often despised simply based on their political views as well as voting record. Third, she has said and done some things in during this campaign that have cause many people to wonder about her integrity. Bill Clinton faced a similar amount of despise. And then of course, she conveys to many, the embodiment of a strong feminist and some find that repulsive.

My overall impression is that both Clintons seem to have the capacity to be well liked by some, and really despised by others and it goes beyond just their political views. However, the same thing could be said about Nixon, Carter, Reagan, and the two Bushes. So while I think there may be an element of misogyny in it, I don't see her sex as fueling the flames.

Tell me, where is the thread where people want to beat up Obama or McCain or GWB?

Oh yes, it doesn't exist.

That's true, but I'd make a distinction between the rantings by a select few here on VJ and the rest of population. I have yet to see any editorials or reputable political blogs talking about beating any of the candidates up.

The point is, it exists on VJ (& is permitted to carry on) and it likely exists elsewhere.

[Cassandra+Yuibi 0]

Unbelievable. I have to find out what abominable crime Mrs Clinton has pepetrated to allow for these kinds of comments. It's one thing to find her policies and beliefs contrary to one's own but all this transference of hate to her as a person is just bizarre.

I think its multi-layered. For one, she's a public figure and most public figures are either despised (ex. Brittany Spears) or adored (Princess Diana). Second, she is a political figure and politicians are often despised simply based on their political views as well as voting record. Third, she has said and done some things in during this campaign that have cause many people to wonder about her integrity. Bill Clinton faced a similar amount of despise. And then of course, she conveys to many, the embodiment of a strong feminist and some find that repulsive.

My overall impression is that both Clintons seem to have the capacity to be well liked by some, and really despised by others and it goes beyond just their political views. However, the same thing could be said about Nixon, Carter, Reagan, and the two Bushes. So while I think there may be an element of misogyny in it, I don't see her sex as fueling the flames.

Tell me, where is the thread where people want to beat up Obama or McCain or GWB?

Oh yes, it doesn't exist.

If you search George Bush this thread is third to come up http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...;hl=george+bush

I'm too lazy to search more, but everyone takes their fair share of bashing in politics. I'm under the impression most of the banter in this post is at least semi-jokingly. It's clear some people don't like her, but I highly doubt that they REALLY want to 'beat up' Hillary or any of the other things jokingly suggested. Tons of people suggest pretty vicious things be done to Bush every day, it just comes with the territory of wanting to be president.

[PlatyPius 5]

Leave it to little d to take a post that was HUMOUR and turn it into an "All men hate women!" thing. I stand by my drama queen diagnosis.

Hillary is more "beatable"?

Wanna test this theory and give her a good beating?

That is HARDLY a call for the beating of someone because she's a woman..... Jeez.... some people REALLY need to grow a sense of humour.

[Dan J 277]

Unbelievable. I have to find out what abominable crime Mrs Clinton has pepetrated to allow for these kinds of comments. It's one thing to find her policies and beliefs contrary to one's own but all this transference of hate to her as a person is just bizarre.

I think its multi-layered. For one, she's a public figure and most public figures are either despised (ex. Brittany Spears) or adored (Princess Diana). Second, she is a political figure and politicians are often despised simply based on their political views as well as voting record. Third, she has said and done some things in during this campaign that have cause many people to wonder about her integrity. Bill Clinton faced a similar amount of despise. And then of course, she conveys to many, the embodiment of a strong feminist and some find that repulsive.

My overall impression is that both Clintons seem to have the capacity to be well liked by some, and really despised by others and it goes beyond just their political views. However, the same thing could be said about Nixon, Carter, Reagan, and the two Bushes. So while I think there may be an element of misogyny in it, I don't see her sex as fueling the flames.

Tell me, where is the thread where people want to beat up Obama or McCain or GWB?

Oh yes, it doesn't exist.

That's true, but I'd make a distinction between the rantings by a select few here on VJ and the rest of population. I have yet to see any editorials or reputable political blogs talking about beating any of the candidates up.

Out of those who are vocal on VJ, there is a large amount of support for Obama and against Hillary. But that does not represent the general population.

[metta 0]

Unbelievable. I have to find out what abominable crime Mrs Clinton has pepetrated to allow for these kinds of comments. It's one thing to find her policies and beliefs contrary to one's own but all this transference of hate to her as a person is just bizarre.

I think its multi-layered. For one, she's a public figure and most public figures are either despised (ex. Brittany Spears) or adored (Princess Diana). Second, she is a political figure and politicians are often despised simply based on their political views as well as voting record. Third, she has said and done some things in during this campaign that have cause many people to wonder about her integrity. Bill Clinton faced a similar amount of despise. And then of course, she conveys to many, the embodiment of a strong feminist and some find that repulsive.

My overall impression is that both Clintons seem to have the capacity to be well liked by some, and really despised by others and it goes beyond just their political views. However, the same thing could be said about Nixon, Carter, Reagan, and the two Bushes. So while I think there may be an element of misogyny in it, I don't see her sex as fueling the flames.

Political leaders who have been on the scene for a period of time attract admirers and detractors. That's nothing unsual. But in the case of Clintons, the venom spewed out in their direction has been unprecedented. In the nineties, I remember watching in disbelief at Jerry Falwell's TV Gospel program, a video tape filled with truculent accusations against the Clintons charging them with every conceivable crime from smuggling in coke from Colombia, several murders (including Vince Foster's) to corruption (White water). Not only that, Falwell was selling those tapes to his audience. All the charges have been, of course, unsubstantiated.

I can't help but wonder if any politician on scene today could have weathered such an unrelenting and sustained onslaught of character assassination and still have the guts to carry on and fight for his/her belief that Hillary is doing now.

I wonder where Barack and Michelle would be today had they been subjected to such vicious attacks for the past two decades.