Loving the African male * Take 2

[Ta Ta 1]

I did not like the suggestion to have sex with your African man on the first date. It is against our belief also.

If the man will not wait then don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.

In this day and age and really at anytime to suggest such a thing is irresponsible to me.

Why encourage to give yourself away like a cheap girl, I just don't see that in the African dating world at all. It is disrespectful and selfish

and has nothing to do with culture in my opinion.

This was the only part I have a big problem with.

Other than that I like the book and it is very helpful.

[Ta Ta 1]

My fiance said to bring the book along and that it sounds interesting, we will see how he will like it.

[Zee Bee 61]

Zainab and Omoba, I agree with you completely about the sex on the first date. I don't know why he talks about it as if every African man is expecting it and if you don't "give it up" then he is going to leave you. I honestly don't think it was an expectation 25 years ago and I do not think it is an expectation today. Just like people in the US who sleep with someone on the first date, there are others who wait until later and even until marriage, the same can be said for other countries.

[JJWashington 0]

I totally agree with you on this subject!

[LovinLiberia 0]

Zainab and Omoba, I agree with you completely about the sex on the first date. I don't know why he talks about it as if every African man is expecting it and if you don't "give it up" then he is going to leave you. I honestly don't think it was an expectation 25 years ago and I do not think it is an expectation today. Just like people in the US who sleep with someone on the first date, there are others who wait until later and even until marriage, the same can be said for other countries.

I had a big problem with this part of the book, too. I just didn't like how he tried to say we MUST give up sex on the first night or ELSE it will never work out. I don't think it is true at all. I can't even count how many African men I have met that are beyond the age of 20 and still claim to be a virgin. They have dated and interacted with females without the expectation of jumping into sex immediately. The author even mentions how his group of friends would discuss whether the female was easy or not. I firmly believe that that idea is just a part of who he and his friends are. I don't think it is cultural. I don't really know how to explain it, but I have noticed that sexual relations in Africa (well, let me reference Liberia) seem to be kind of emotionless. Some of the stories I have heard several stories regarding sex and relationships that have led me to believe that he is somewhat right in regards to the African women being raised with a certain expectation or role. I've heard stories about men having other women and the primary woman knowing about it and being fine with it. It's almost like they have a better grip on the idea of sex with no strings attached. I may be wrong, but that is what I have observed.

Another thing that got to me was the chapter regarding polygamy and cheating. Again, it was almost like the author expected us to be accepting of the fact that African men cheat and have many wives. It came off to me as that's the way it is so deal with it or move on.

It took me a while to post in this thread because I was mainly looking for something to discuss that applied to us. I was looking for an issue that related to us. Liberia was founded by Black American slaves who went back to Africa. In saying that, a lot of Liberian traditions, holidays, ideas, and ways of thinking are based on America. Their flag resembles ours, their habits, funerals, weddings and even the way they raise children and treat women are almost exactly like ours in America. I discussed the 'invisible woman' issue with my husband and he disagreed, but that is the way his culture is. I disagreed with it, too, because it is very common for Liberian women to intermingle with Liberian men. Liberian women are very strong and demanding at times and they can be quick to speak up, talk and yell back (in front of others), and defend themselves. For these reasons, it has been hard for my husband and I to relate to some of the topics in the book. Nevertheless, my husband is still an African and some things in the book do apply to him.

I still find the book useful, especially the part on communication. It hit the nail on the head for us. The silent treatment during arguments was a big issue for us so I was very thrilled to get some advice on that. I think the author is amusing and his stories are a classic. I actually laugh out loud at some things in the book. I've been reading everyone's reviews of the book and it is still hard for me to gauge whether or not this is just ONE African man's opinion or whether or not these things are actually of the African culture.

In the introduction, he mentioned that he would discuss money issues. I am looking forward to reading about that because I know I will be able to relate to it. My husband has been here for almost 6 months and he still thinks spending $20 at Wal-Mart is a big deal. I know he thinks I spend more than I ought to and I think he should spend MORE. Anyway, this has been my take on the book so far.

[Ta Ta 1]

LL, I think it is the Liberian culture that intermingles more so with the gender than any other country in Africa, except maybe South Africa.

Just next door in Sierra Leone I rarely saw genders intermingled and mostly saw men in groups socializing and was even asked to please

give a group of men privacy to talk at one point...........in other words please butt out and leave us men to talk alone.............

So I do believe it is a minority of woman who speak up freely and is country/culture specific.

Yes, I can see my fiance moaning too when we will come out with $20 worth of Walmart stuff

[Ta Ta 1]

I don't read it as such that the author thinks we should expect cheating and live with it, I read it as him saying we will have a challenge

to find an African partner who will be on our wavelength with monogamy and then to discuss these issues with him and share how we feel.

[Bassi and Zainab 1]

In Ghana, I mostly saw the sexes separate. The men together and the women together. That was the norm there. I think the book is his story, and I think he presents the book as his story. He's Nigerian, not Ghanaian, so I find that some of the cultural differences will be there. I don't think anything is black and white. I certainly believe there are segements of the population in Ghana that have sex freely. My fiance happened to not have been part of the segment of the population and was surprised at the change and how freely people were behaving in his own neighborhood because it was a big change from when he was in his 20s. That being said, it was the same here in my neighborhood growing up and may be a sign of times changing, rather than culture. I think we've talked before about making distinctions in our relationships and not trying to attribute every disagreement or difference to culture. Some things are about the individual, their character, their upbringing. I think that's why it was important for the author to describe his upbringing because it gives context to his paradigm. Which was very different from my fiance's upbringing.

[LovinLiberia 0]

LL, I think it is the Liberian culture that intermingles more so with the gender than any other country in Africa, except maybe South Africa.

Just next door in Sierra Leone I rarely saw genders intermingled and mostly saw men in groups socializing and was even asked to please

give a group of men privacy to talk at one point...........in other words please butt out and leave us men to talk alone.............

So I do believe it is a minority of woman who speak up freely and is country/culture specific.

Yes, I can see my fiance moaning too when we will come out with $20 worth of Walmart stuff

I agree that it might just be a Liberian thing and that outspoken women are most likely the minority on the African continent. Again, that probably comes from Liberia being Americanized. When you and I compared our stories of travelling to Africa, I remember that that was one issue that we noticed as different. On my trip, it was very common to see couples holding hands, kissing, hugging, and showing PDAs right in the streets. When I would go to work with my SO I would be the only female and they would almost demand that I sit in the group circle and laugh and converse with them. Those things are common to that one country and I know that Nigeria and other places have a different story. The only other African country I went to was Ghana and that trip was so stressful that I didn't have the time to survey my surroundings. I surely wasn't focused on what other couples were doing so I can't really compare those two experiences.

LOL @ the men telling you to butt out. Did you get mad or did you understand why they wanted to have privacy?

In Ghana, I mostly saw the sexes separate. The men together and the women together. That was the norm there. I think the book is his story, and I think he presents the book as his story. He's Nigerian, not Ghanaian, so I find that some of the cultural differences will be there. I don't think anything is black and white. I certainly believe there are segements of the population in Ghana that have sex freely. My fiance happened to not have been part of the segment of the population and was surprised at the change and how freely people were behaving in his own neighborhood because it was a big change from when he was in his 20s. That being said, it was the same here in my neighborhood growing up and may be a sign of times changing, rather than culture. I think we've talked before about making distinctions in our relationships and not trying to attribute every disagreement or difference to culture. Some things are about the individual, their character, their upbringing. I think that's why it was important for the author to describe his upbringing because it gives context to his paradigm. Which was very different from my fiance's upbringing.

[Zee Bee 61]

I have lived in a country that regulates the separation of the sexes (Saudi Arabia) and in Ghana where it just seemed to happen naturally. I think the roles are more defined and so that just naturally translated to some separation of the sexes. Even nowadays it is still the same, at least in the North which is more rural than the South. Even so, there are some changes happening.

I wouldn't have used the word 'invisible' to define the role of the women. I saw it as more like, the women's role is in the home and the men outside. I don't think they are invisible as such. I'm sure there are many a Nigerian woman who has let her man have it

[Bassi and Zainab 1]

I wouldn't have used the word 'invisible' to define the role of the women. I saw it as more like, the women's role is in the home and the men outside. I don't think they are invisible as such. I'm sure there are many a Nigerian woman who has let her man have it

That's why I think perspective is important. If you were a man visiting, you might also have said invisible. If you weren't Ghanaian and able to speak the language, you might also have said invisible. I know that for me I understood the idea of invisible because very very few of the women spoke english where I was and I can't speak hausa, except for greetings, I'm hungry, and where's the bathroom. So, they were invisible to me too. I couldn't hang out with the women because I couldn't communicate with them. When I wanted my mother in law for something, I'd have to send one of the boys to wherever the women were to get her for me. That's why they were invisible. Not cause they weren't doing their own thing, just not there where I was, I didn't see it or know what their thing was. I never saw them eat, I ate with the men. So, who knows, they could have been stepford wives. jk

[Zee Bee 61]

I can see your point Zainab. I guess to me, since I grew up with it I saw it a different way. And I intermingled with the boys and the girls and they are all family so its not such a big deal. It wasn't until I was a lot older that I actually realized the natural separation.

And also, from watching how my parents interacted differently when we were in Ghana vs when we were not. I know that sometimes my dad would 'overstep' a little in being way too traditional (my parents lived in the US for 10 years and have not lived in Ghana for about 30). I remember there was one time my mom wanted my dad to fix somehting or the other in the kitchen and my dad did not want to so he said that in Ghana 'men do not go into the kitchen'. Well, that night my mom made a dish she knows my dad does not like and when he asked if there was anything else she said nope.

My dad was in the kitchen the next morning

But I do agree with you. As an outsider you may ask where the women are

[LovinLiberia 0]

I wouldn't have used the word 'invisible' to define the role of the women. I saw it as more like, the women's role is in the home and the men outside. I don't think they are invisible as such. I'm sure there are many a Nigerian woman who has let her man have it

That's why I think perspective is important. If you were a man visiting, you might also have said invisible. If you weren't Ghanaian and able to speak the language, you might also have said invisible. I know that for me I understood the idea of invisible because very very few of the women spoke english where I was and I can't speak hausa, except for greetings, I'm hungry, and where's the bathroom. So, they were invisible to me too. I couldn't hang out with the women because I couldn't communicate with them. When I wanted my mother in law for something, I'd have to send one of the boys to wherever the women were to get her for me. That's why they were invisible. Not cause they weren't doing their own thing, just not there where I was, I didn't see it or know what their thing was. I never saw them eat, I ate with the men. So, who knows, they could have been stepford wives. jk

You bring up an excellent point about how one would see the women as being invisible simply because they just aren't in the presence of the women.

[LovinLiberia 0]

I can see your point Zainab. I guess to me, since I grew up with it I saw it a different way. And I intermingled with the boys and the girls and they are all family so its not such a big deal. It wasn't until I was a lot older that I actually realized the natural separation.

And also, from watching how my parents interacted differently when we were in Ghana vs when we were not. I know that sometimes my dad would 'overstep' a little in being way too traditional (my parents lived in the US for 10 years and have not lived in Ghana for about 30). I remember there was one time my mom wanted my dad to fix somehting or the other in the kitchen and my dad did not want to so he said that in Ghana 'men do not go into the kitchen'. Well, that night my mom made a dish she knows my dad does not like and when he asked if there was anything else she said nope.

My dad was in the kitchen the next morning

But I do agree with you. As an outsider you may ask where the women are

ROFL, that was a good story!

[Ta Ta 1]

LL, I think it is the Liberian culture that intermingles more so with the gender than any other country in Africa, except maybe South Africa.

Just next door in Sierra Leone I rarely saw genders intermingled and mostly saw men in groups socializing and was even asked to please

give a group of men privacy to talk at one point...........in other words please butt out and leave us men to talk alone.............

So I do believe it is a minority of woman who speak up freely and is country/culture specific.

Yes, I can see my fiance moaning too when we will come out with $20 worth of Walmart stuff

I agree that it might just be a Liberian thing and that outspoken women are most likely the minority on the African continent. Again, that probably comes from Liberia being Americanized. When you and I compared our stories of travelling to Africa, I remember that that was one issue that we noticed as different. On my trip, it was very common to see couples holding hands, kissing, hugging, and showing PDAs right in the streets. When I would go to work with my SO I would be the only female and they would almost demand that I sit in the group circle and laugh and converse with them. Those things are common to that one country and I know that Nigeria and other places have a different story. The only other African country I went to was Ghana and that trip was so stressful that I didn't have the time to survey my surroundings. I surely wasn't focused on what other couples were doing so I can't really compare those two experiences.

LOL @ the men telling you to butt out. Did you get mad or did you understand why they wanted to have privacy?

In Ghana, I mostly saw the sexes separate. The men together and the women together. That was the norm there. I think the book is his story, and I think he presents the book as his story. He's Nigerian, not Ghanaian, so I find that some of the cultural differences will be there. I don't think anything is black and white. I certainly believe there are segements of the population in Ghana that have sex freely. My fiance happened to not have been part of the segment of the population and was surprised at the change and how freely people were behaving in his own neighborhood because it was a big change from when he was in his 20s. That being said, it was the same here in my neighborhood growing up and may be a sign of times changing, rather than culture. I think we've talked before about making distinctions in our relationships and not trying to attribute every disagreement or difference to culture. Some things are about the individual, their character, their upbringing. I think that's why it was important for the author to describe his upbringing because it gives context to his paradigm. Which was very different from my fiance's upbringing.

Yes, I understood the culture and butted out and went to my room.......thinking geez just when it started to get good......