American businesswoman imprisoned in Saudi Arabia for going to Starbucks with unrelated male colleague

[kaydee457 13]

I think the 'it's their country and their laws' argument is histerical. Colour me cynical.

Yep. And that statement cant' really stand without some sort of assumption that a country that imposes these laws is actually half-decent at the due process of law.

Hey its not like you actually need to have done something to wind up on the wrong side of the law in Saudi Arabia. Its one of the most racist countries going.

LOL... Same cast of characters! Yes, it's HYSTERICAL (spelling)..........

[diadromous mermaid 36]

I guess I can't argue with the fact that the laws there are the laws, but doesn't anyone else find it rather ironic that a woman with Western roots was doing what one normally does, and is perfectly acceptable in a Western style establishment? How does Starbucks manage to trade in Riyahd if biz folks can't use the Wifi in the "Family area"?

[Ban Hammer 13,355]

The point was that she lives there, so she's probably aware of the country's many customs. She's not some ignorant person on a business trip just because that gives you a reason to talk about having been there.

But mostly I'm just disgusted by your approval of law above anything else, even if it's really, really offensive law.

alex, the fact remains it is their country and their right to have what laws they want along with the reasonable expectation that visitors (including us americans) will follow those laws. while this law may be archaic to you, it should be given the respect due a different culture. surely a world traveller like yourself can understand different cultures? i don't think that's too much to ask, is it? unless, of course, someone wishes to demand the foreign country adhere to whatever standard that visitor feels.......

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think the 'it's their country and their laws' argument is histerical. Colour me cynical.

Yep. And that statement cant' really stand without some sort of assumption that a country that imposes these laws is actually half-decent at the due process of law.

Hey its not like you actually need to have done something to wind up on the wrong side of the law in Saudi Arabia. Its one of the most racist countries going.

LOL... Same cast of characters! Yes, it's HYSTERICAL (spelling)..........

Whatever titlick. Don't let me get in the way of your amorality.

[Ban Hammer 13,355]

I think the 'it's their country and their laws' argument is histerical. Colour me cynical.

welcome to the real world, where different countries have - omg - different laws!

I guess I can't argue with the fact that the laws there are the laws, but doesn't anyone else find it rather ironic that a woman with Western roots was doing what one normally does, and is perfectly acceptable in a Western style establishment? How does Starbucks manage to trade in Riyahd if biz folks can't use the Wifi in the "Family area"?

ironic, perhaps. every time before i was deployed to the middle east we were briefed on what to do, what not to do. i'd not be surprised if western businesses did the same.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

I think the 'it's their country and their laws' argument is histerical. Colour me cynical.

welcome to the real world, where different countries have - omg - different laws!

I guess I can't argue with the fact that the laws there are the laws, but doesn't anyone else find it rather ironic that a woman with Western roots was doing what one normally does, and is perfectly acceptable in a Western style establishment? How does Starbucks manage to trade in Riyahd if biz folks can't use the Wifi in the "Family area"?

ironic, perhaps. every time before i was deployed to the middle east we were briefed on what to do, what not to do. i'd not be surprised if western businesses did the same.

Yes, I can well understand briefing members of the military, but in this case, she wasn't really exhibiting defiance of the norm. I mean, she offered what I would take as a reasonable explanation. I suppose to take it to the sublime, one could argue that if she hadn't attempted to make best use of her time on the job, and taken her business elsewhere, she could have been reprimanded by her supervisor for not working! It just appears, on its face, to be a little over the top, to me.

[kaydee457 13]

I guess I can't argue with the fact that the laws there are the laws, but doesn't anyone else find it rather ironic that a woman with Western roots was doing what one normally does, and is perfectly acceptable in a Western style establishment? How does Starbucks manage to trade in Riyahd if biz folks can't use the Wifi in the "Family area"?

Not a "western style establishment" but rather a western style franchise that is partitioned in line with shria law; cordoned off and curtained areas that only "married couples and families" may occupy.

If this woman was a resident in that country, then my speculation is that being western she thought that she would not be approached or found out. She couldn't possibly be ignorant of this law as every eating establishment is partitioned similarly.

My educated guess is that she was turned in by a worker that recognized her infraction under shria law……

Oh well, hope she learned something!

[Ban Hammer 13,355]

I think the 'it's their country and their laws' argument is histerical. Colour me cynical.

welcome to the real world, where different countries have - omg - different laws!

I guess I can't argue with the fact that the laws there are the laws, but doesn't anyone else find it rather ironic that a woman with Western roots was doing what one normally does, and is perfectly acceptable in a Western style establishment? How does Starbucks manage to trade in Riyahd if biz folks can't use the Wifi in the "Family area"?

ironic, perhaps. every time before i was deployed to the middle east we were briefed on what to do, what not to do. i'd not be surprised if western businesses did the same.

Yes, I can well understand briefing members of the military, but in this case, she wasn't really exhibiting defiance of the norm. I mean, she offered what I would take as a reasonable explanation. I suppose to take it to the sublime, one could argue that if she hadn't attempted to make best use of her time on the job, and taken her business elsewhere, she could have been reprimanded by her supervisor for not working! It just appears, on its face, to be a little over the top, to me.

reasonable to you or i, yes. but police in other countries are not known for their sense of humor (oh have i got some stories for you about the german police......). i would think that her supervisor wouldn't have had an issue with her going back to where she stayed given the circumstances as anyone in a supervisory capacity has every reason to be aware of things like this.

[kaydee457 13]

I think the 'it's their country and their laws' argument is histerical. Colour me cynical.

Yep. And that statement cant' really stand without some sort of assumption that a country that imposes these laws is actually half-decent at the due process of law.

Hey its not like you actually need to have done something to wind up on the wrong side of the law in Saudi Arabia. Its one of the most racist countries going.

LOL... Same cast of characters! Yes, it's HYSTERICAL (spelling)..........

Whatever titlick. Don't let me get in the way of your amorality.

At least you stay in character......

Going straight for the personal attacks when your arguments fall short....

[diadromous mermaid 36]

I guess I can't argue with the fact that the laws there are the laws, but doesn't anyone else find it rather ironic that a woman with Western roots was doing what one normally does, and is perfectly acceptable in a Western style establishment? How does Starbucks manage to trade in Riyahd if biz folks can't use the Wifi in the "Family area"?

Not a "western style establishment" but rather a western style franchise that is partitioned in line with shria law; cordoned off and curtained areas that only "married couples and families" may occupy.

If this woman was a resident in that country, then my speculation is that being western she thought that she would not be approached or found out. She couldn't possibly be ignorant of this law as every eating establishment is partitioned similarly.

My educated guess is that she was turned in by a worker that recognized her infraction under shria law……

Oh well, hope she learned something!

Good point.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Perhaps the "its their country" stuff can be applied to these threads.

Saudi Arabia to Punish Survivor of Gang Rape with 200 Lashes and Prison Term

Rape case roils Saudi legal system

Saudi king pardons rape victim

Blogger detained in Saudi

Saudis Ban "Pan Arab" Newspaper, After it criticises the government

Village elders drive raped woman out of village in eastern India

20 arrested at Saudi gay wedding

Saudi Arabia Beheads Two Convicted Drug Smugglers, A cure for the smuggling problem on the USA border.

What's heinous in these is apparently the victim's fault here. What gives?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think the 'it's their country and their laws' argument is histerical. Colour me cynical.

Yep. And that statement cant' really stand without some sort of assumption that a country that imposes these laws is actually half-decent at the due process of law.

Hey its not like you actually need to have done something to wind up on the wrong side of the law in Saudi Arabia. Its one of the most racist countries going.

LOL... Same cast of characters! Yes, it's HYSTERICAL (spelling)..........

Whatever titlick. Don't let me get in the way of your amorality.

At least you stay in character......

Going straight for the personal attacks when your arguments fall short....

I'm not sure how my arguments "fell short" - given the preceding post..

You didn't exactly disprove or refute anything, did you...

You keep banging on about how people lack experience, and that your ill-defined and oversold experience is "superior" - and that simply saying that a person's arguments "fall short" is sufficient argument for it to be so. Afraid I don't buy it... I wonder how many do...

If there's one difference between us - its that I don't self advertise.

Edited February 8, 2008 by Number 6

[kaydee457 13]

Perhaps the "its their country" stuff can be applied to these threads.

Saudi Arabia to Punish Survivor of Gang Rape with 200 Lashes and Prison Term

Rape case roils Saudi legal system

Saudi king pardons rape victim

Blogger detained in Saudi

Saudis Ban "Pan Arab" Newspaper, After it criticises the government

Village elders drive raped woman out of village in eastern India

20 arrested at Saudi gay wedding

Saudi Arabia Beheads Two Convicted Drug Smugglers, A cure for the smuggling problem on the USA border.

What's heinous in these is apparently the victim's fault here. What gives?

Number, and your point is what? It's really not their country?

I've never defended their "methods", just the fact that people that visit, or live there for business purposes, in their country, particularly westerners, seem to believe that the have priveledge in terms of breaking shria law.....

They don't......Hence they get hauled off to jail, poked, prodded, and whatever, then released, hopefully having learned something.

It's just a fact of life!

Frankly, this idjit, the woman mentioned, doesn't know how to shut her mouth. That may be an unfortunate spout of naivte for her if she still resides there!

If you don't like them don't go there!

#######?

[britty 1]

I don't think this is an issue of acceptable law, but rather what law is practised in Saudi. Whilst some of us may feel that this law is unjust, the treatment of this woman was perfectly acceptable in Saudi.

[Peikko 1,575]

Kaydee, you are certainly priceless. I don't expect you to understand why I find this so particularly funny. Suffice to say, it's very entertaining.