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American businesswoman imprisoned in Saudi Arabia for going to Starbucks with unrelated male colleague

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kaydee457 Experienced

kaydee457   13

Posted
Filed: Lift. Cond. (apr) Country: Ethiopia
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Posted (edited)
If I were to commit a crime (or violate some sort of social/ethical norm) in another country, whose laws and values am I held accountable to? The United States or the other country? As an American, I have the right to seek help from the American Embassy, but I am still subject to the country in which I caused the problem.

True, this woman didn't knowingly do anything wrong, but as any police officer or lawyer will tell you: "ignorance of the law is no excuse." If you're visiting another country, then it's expected that you at least attempt to understand and abide the rules governing it while there; this is especially true if you plan on working or living in that country.

I tend to think the punishment here went a little overboard. At worst, she should have been escorted out of the Starbucks she was in and perhaps put under some form of "house arrest." I don't really agree with that either, but it wouldn't be nearly as harsh as imprisonment and still allow her to receive a punishment.

I would need more infomation about the particular individual to come to that conclusion. I don't think she was/is completely ignorant of shria laws, especially one so commonplace in the Middle East. As I said before, Americans and westeners oftentimes rationalize, and then bend the rules in their favor......

If she's a "business person" then it's a matter of personal responsibility. I don't know if she works for an organization that regulary does international travel but if they do then possibly they're remiss in preparing their employees for international travel.

We (my corporation) never send anyone overseas to do business without a "trans-cultural" briefing. In the case of the middle east, we absolutely make sure that our female employees understand their responsibility to meld in and respect the local customs, as well as the consequences of not doing so.

If they have any problem with that, and you'd be surprised how many irrationally balk, they don't go, period.....

Edited by kaydee457
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Chica Yeyé Grand Master

Chica Yeyé   41

Posted
Filed: Timeline
Posted

She should have been jailed just for GOING to Starbucks. Repeat after me:

FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS GO TO STARBUCKS

FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS GO TO STARBUCKS

FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS GO TO STARBUCKS

FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS GO TO STARBUCKS

FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS GO TO STARBUCKS

AnewKINDofFEELIN Proficient

AnewKINDofFEELIN   0

Posted
Filed: K-1 Visa Country: Canada
 Timeline
Posted
She should have been jailed just for GOING to Starbucks. Repeat after me:

FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS GO TO STARBUCKS

FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS GO TO STARBUCKS

FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS GO TO STARBUCKS

FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS GO TO STARBUCKS

FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS GO TO STARBUCKS

That's what I'm talking about!

All you need is a modest house in a modest neighborhood

In a modest town where honest people dwell

--July 22---------Sent I-129F packet

--July 27---------Petition received

--August 28------NOA1 issued

--August 31------Arrived in Terrace after lots of flight delays to spend Lindsay's birthday with her

--October 10-----Completed address change online

--January 25-----NOA2 received via USCIS Case Status Online

Chica Yeyé Grand Master

Chica Yeyé   41

Posted
Filed: Timeline
Posted
She should have been jailed just for GOING to Starbucks. Repeat after me:

FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS GO TO STARBUCKS

FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS GO TO STARBUCKS

FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS GO TO STARBUCKS

FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS GO TO STARBUCKS

FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS GO TO STARBUCKS

That's what I'm talking about!

Hey! And I live in Seattle my man, so I am surrounded by Cr@pbucks :blink:

AnewKINDofFEELIN Proficient

AnewKINDofFEELIN   0

Posted
Filed: K-1 Visa Country: Canada
 Timeline
Posted (edited)
She should have been jailed just for GOING to Starbucks. Repeat after me:

FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS GO TO STARBUCKS

FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS GO TO STARBUCKS

FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS GO TO STARBUCKS

FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS GO TO STARBUCKS

FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS GO TO STARBUCKS

That's what I'm talking about!

Hey! And I live in Seattle my man, so I am surrounded by Cr@pbucks :blink:

It's going to throw me off now that McDonalds is getting into the coffee business. I can't call Starbucks McCoffee, anymore.

Edited by AnewKINDofFEELIN

All you need is a modest house in a modest neighborhood

In a modest town where honest people dwell

--July 22---------Sent I-129F packet

--July 27---------Petition received

--August 28------NOA1 issued

--August 31------Arrived in Terrace after lots of flight delays to spend Lindsay's birthday with her

--October 10-----Completed address change online

--January 25-----NOA2 received via USCIS Case Status Online

GaryC Grand Master

GaryC   7

Posted
Filed: Lift. Cond. (apr) Country: Philippines
 Timeline
Posted
I can honestly say that I've avoided going to Starbucks, ever!

I never went "into" a starbucks before. One time I was at an airport and got a coffee from them because it was the only place open at 3am. Worst $5 cup of coffee I ever had. Bleh!!

PlatyPius Experienced

PlatyPius   5

Posted
Filed: Timeline
Posted
I can honestly say that I've avoided going to Starbucks, ever!

Starbucks will bring about the end of civilisation.....

Lady, people aren't chocolates. Do you know what they are mostly? Bastards. ####### coated bastards with ####### filling. But I don't find them half as annoying as I find naive bobble-headed optimists who walk around vomiting sunshine.
w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r Grand Master

w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r   123

Posted
Filed: Timeline
  • Author
Posted

When there was a Starbucks next to where I worked, I used to go there a lot. They play really nice background music, have the new york times and very comfortable couches. I used to drop by and spend an hour in the afternoon once in a while, with my laptop. That was a nice way to get work done.

Man is made by his belief. As he believes, so he is.

kaydee457 Experienced

kaydee457   13

Posted
Filed: Lift. Cond. (apr) Country: Ethiopia
 Timeline
Posted (edited)

Well then, we all agree that this dizzy girl was thrown in the pokey because she went to Starbucks... :whistle:

Unless of course I'm getting it wrong and some student "writer" will have to come along and then

e x p l a i n......i t .....t o .....m e .....s---l--- o---w---l ---y :lol:

Edited by kaydee457
miss_me_yet.jpg
Trompe le Monde Veteran

Trompe le Monde   1,107

Posted
Timeline
Posted
If they have any problem with that, and you'd be surprised how many irrationally balk, they don't go, period.....

I'd be surprised how many "irritationally balk" or just decide it's not worth the effort. In my old job, I was supposed to go to Yemen - the hoops you have to go through to just to get a business visa became such that it was more practical to NOT go even though I'd done all the analysis to support the deal we were negotiating. It was just easier that my male colleague did it, even if he was less qualified to do so.

I do agree with you 100% about Westerners in the Middle East however. Many think they are completely exempt for local mores and customs.

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Sister Fracas Veteran

Sister Fracas   5

Posted
Filed: Country: England
 Timeline
Posted

She's been there for EIGHT years.... she should know the law...

Co-Founder of VJ Fluffy Kitty Posse -
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31 Dec 2003 MARRIED
26 Jan 2004 Filed I130; 23 May 2005 Received Visa
30 Jun 2005 Arrived at Chicago POE
02 Apr 2007 Filed I751; 22 May 2008 Received 10-yr green card
14 Jul 2012 Citizenship Oath Ceremony

DeadPoolX Experienced

DeadPoolX   9

Posted
Filed: Other Country: Canada
 Timeline
Posted

I don't have a problem with Starbucks itself. My issue is with the pretentiousness of the customers who tend to go there. It seems a lot of people just "hang out" at their local Starbucks in order to feel trendy and say: "Hey, look at me! I'm drinking my Super Whammy Double-Whipped Loco-Mocha Espresso with Caramelized Sugar Sprinkles!" :rolleyes:

Sister Fracas Veteran

Sister Fracas   5

Posted
Filed: Country: England
 Timeline
Posted
I don't have a problem with Starbucks itself. My issue is with the pretentiousness of the customers who tend to go there. It seems a lot of people just "hang out" at their local Starbucks in order to feel trendy and say: "Hey, look at me! I'm drinking my Super Whammy Double-Whipped Loco-Mocha Espresso with Caramelized Sugar Sprinkles!" :rolleyes:

In a Venti-sized please.... LOL

Co-Founder of VJ Fluffy Kitty Posse -
avatar.jpg

31 Dec 2003 MARRIED
26 Jan 2004 Filed I130; 23 May 2005 Received Visa
30 Jun 2005 Arrived at Chicago POE
02 Apr 2007 Filed I751; 22 May 2008 Received 10-yr green card
14 Jul 2012 Citizenship Oath Ceremony

kaydee457 Experienced

kaydee457   13

Posted
Filed: Lift. Cond. (apr) Country: Ethiopia
 Timeline
Posted
I don't have a problem with Starbucks itself. My issue is with the pretentiousness of the customers who tend to go there. It seems a lot of people just "hang out" at their local Starbucks in order to feel trendy and say: "Hey, look at me! I'm drinking my Super Whammy Double-Whipped Loco-Mocha Espresso with Caramelized Sugar Sprinkles!" :rolleyes:

:lol::lol::thumbs::thumbs:

miss_me_yet.jpg
 

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