American businesswoman imprisoned in Saudi Arabia for going to Starbucks with unrelated male colleague

[Peikko 1,575]

You, and the rest of your ilk here are just being silly treating their laws as a "problem" for women when frankly, most women agree with this enforcement.....

It's just a fact of life.

Again, I am not being "silly" and nor is the woman from the article who precipitated this discussion. She has every right to challenge her treatment as a contrevention of human rights, which indeed it is. Did you have the same difficulty with the the rights of blacks in South Africa during apartheid that you seem to have with women's rights?

I do.

Minding our own damn business.

Clearly a head in the sand approach is not exactly a solution.

[Peikko 1,575]

Does anyone honestly believe the 'what they haven't had the won't miss argument'? I'll happily decontrusct it if anyone is seriously going to suggest it has even a whiff of merit.

[kaydee457 13]

You, and the rest of your ilk here are just being silly treating their laws as a "problem" for women when frankly, most women agree with this enforcement.....

It's just a fact of life.

Again, I am not being "silly" and nor is the woman from the article who precipitated this discussion. She has every right to challenge her treatment as a contrevention of human rights, which indeed it is. Did you have the same difficulty with the the rights of blacks in South Africa during apartheid that you seem to have with women's rights?

I do.

Minding our own damn business.

Clearly a head in the sand approach is not exactly a solution.

This is where you guys are clearly delusional. She doesn't have any "rights in Suadi Arabia, she's a GUEST IN THEIR COUNTRY.

This is not a "human rights issue" as there was no harm done to her. In fact, one hopes that she's learned a valuable lesson.....

[Alex+R 0]

Kaydee: still working up an answer to my Iraq query?

PS people have human rights wherever they live. And in most countries, people have rights when they become citizens of a country, as it's implied in other articles this woman has. She's at least a resident of Saudi, you know.

[Minya's wife 25]

You, and the rest of your ilk here are just being silly treating their laws as a "problem" for women when frankly, most women agree with this enforcement.....

It's just a fact of life.

Again, I am not being "silly" and nor is the woman from the article who precipitated this discussion. She has every right to challenge her treatment as a contrevention of human rights, which indeed it is. Did you have the same difficulty with the the rights of blacks in South Africa during apartheid that you seem to have with women's rights?

I do.

Minding our own damn business.

Clearly a head in the sand approach is not exactly a solution.

This is where you guys are clearly delusional. She doesn't have any "rights in Suadi Arabia, she's a GUEST IN THEIR COUNTRY.

This is not a "human rights issue" as there was no harm done to her. In fact, one hopes that she's learned a valuable lesson.....

The original article does not mention her 'residency' status in SA only that she's resided there for some time. Is there something about Saudi laws that I'm missing...do they not have immigration laws? No matter how long you live there, you're always just a 'guest'?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

8. You can't reasonably compare the situation a battered woman has with her abusive husband and the laws a country imposes on it's citizens. People can find out the laws, customs and norms of any country today before they travel there. Try doing that with a spouse that decides it'd be fun one day, after a year of marriage, to suddenly take his Louisville Slugger out of the garage and use it on his wife because she overcooked his dinner. Maybe there were warning signs, but she couldn't very well look up his information online and decide ahead of time if she wanted to deal with that, now could she?

That's not where I was going with my prior comment, not even close. I was addressing the statement that because "its what people have always known, and that they are 'happy' with it" that this somehow validates not only these sexist laws but the also the subsequent violence, threats and sexual humiliation with which they are enforced.

I find it hard to believe that any woman could naturally believe in their own violent repression as a natural state of affairs and actually be happy with that when they are receiving a beating. In that context - I don't think "abusive" relationship is a particularly far out analogy...

Saudi women might accept their subordinate status to male authority and indeed there are actually groups in the US who lay claims to feminism while essentially upholding male, patriarchal society. They might call it "feminism", that doesn't mean that's what it is...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

This is not a "human rights issue" as there was no harm done to her. In fact, one hopes that she's learned a valuable lesson.....

No harm....? She was threatened, stripped naked and humiliated, and her clothes thrown in filth.

Geez if you don't think that experience is at least "distressing" to a person, I'm not sure I want to hear your ideas on date rape.

[Peikko 1,575]

K, I am definitely off this round-a-bout. If anyone wants to continue to argue that this women is merely silly, that her treatment was a bagatelle that should 'teach her a lesson', that human rights are left wing whimsy and that muslim women have no aspirations beyond subserviance to the dominant males please carry on. I am sure they 'deserve' to be stoned when they are raped too.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

Although in the grand scheme of human rights violations and injustices in Saudi, her complaint should be somewhere near the bottom of our priorities.

[Alex+R 0]

Although in the grand scheme of human rights violations and injustices in Saudi, her complaint should be somewhere near the bottom of our priorities.

I get the impression the woman in the article would agree. I think she's just using what she experienced to draw attention to women's issues there. She must not be as opposed to the way Saudi treats its women as most of us are, or she'd insist on not living there. So I doubt she's particularly sensitive.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

K, I am definitely off this round-a-bout. If anyone wants to continue to argue that this women is merely silly, that her treatment was a bagatelle that should 'teach her a lesson', that human rights are left wing whimsy and that muslim women have no aspirations beyond subserviance to the dominant males please carry on. I am sure they 'deserve' to be stoned when they are raped too.

Reading some of the preceding comments its hard not to come to that conclusion.

This is actually one of the worst examples of moral relativity that I've seen - with apparently intelligent people supporting evil ideas that involve the violent abuse and repression of other human beings.

People get bent out of shape about being "personally attacked", but this is far, FAR more offensive. Some of these folks should go out and join a fascist/nationalist movements if they truly, honestly believe these things.

[Alex+R 0]

K, I am definitely off this round-a-bout. If anyone wants to continue to argue that this women is merely silly, that her treatment was a bagatelle that should 'teach her a lesson', that human rights are left wing whimsy and that muslim women have no aspirations beyond subserviance to the dominant males please carry on. I am sure they 'deserve' to be stoned when they are raped too.

Reading some of the preceding comments its hard not to come to that conclusion.

This is actually one of the worst examples of moral relativity that I've seen - with apparently intelligent people supporting evil ideas that involve the violent abuse and repression of other human beings.

People get bent out of shape about being "personally attacked", but this is far, FAR more offensive. Some of these folks should go out and join a fascist/nationalist movements if they truly, honestly believe these things.

What surprised me most was the usual red-blooded-American crew defending cultural relativism, an unfortunate off-shoot of some pretty leftist thinking about multiculturalism. It's not a bandwagon I'd expect more conservative folk to jump on.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Although in the grand scheme of human rights violations and injustices in Saudi, her complaint should be somewhere near the bottom of our priorities.

Doubtless. But if people are rationalising the abuse of women as some sort of quaint, morally acceptable cultural practice, how do they rationalise the stonings, limb amputations, public floggings and beheadings?

[AnewKINDofFEELIN 0]

Saudi Arabia gives me gas.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

K, I am definitely off this round-a-bout. If anyone wants to continue to argue that this women is merely silly, that her treatment was a bagatelle that should 'teach her a lesson', that human rights are left wing whimsy and that muslim women have no aspirations beyond subserviance to the dominant males please carry on. I am sure they 'deserve' to be stoned when they are raped too.

Reading some of the preceding comments its hard not to come to that conclusion.

This is actually one of the worst examples of moral relativity that I've seen - with apparently intelligent people supporting evil ideas that involve the violent abuse and repression of other human beings.

People get bent out of shape about being "personally attacked", but this is far, FAR more offensive. Some of these folks should go out and join a fascist/nationalist movements if they truly, honestly believe these things.

What surprised me most was the usual red-blooded-American crew defending cultural relativism, an unfortunate off-shoot of some pretty leftist thinking about multiculturalism. It's not a bandwagon I'd expect more conservative folk to jump on.

I'm half-tempted to bring this out of the closet the next time there's a suicide bombing. Of course - even joking about such things is... well.. obscene.