The Duggar Family

[~Laura and Nick~ 5]

I find it highly offensive that they choose to procreate like fools while half the world is starving to death.

This says it all right here.

They disgust me.

[~Laura and Nick~ 5]

I mean, honestly, this is ONE FREAKING FAMILY. How are there 17 children doing anything. It isn't like the whole USA is seeing them on tv and thinking oh man that is a great idea.

You wanna make a bet? This logic is ridiculous. What kind of upbringing do you think these children are getting? They will more than likely turn into baby machines themselves. They have even shown on their documentary about gatherings they have with other families like them with upwards of 12 children. This isn't just ONE family. Get real.

[DeadPoolX 9]

How much money do you have to earn to support that little lot...

To the salt mines with them!

Gender roles are a matter for personal opinion? How extraordinary. I guess this is why it is taking so long for women to get paid the same as men for doing the same work in this country. That is appalling. Yes, men and women are differerent but there is nothing that dictates that the 'washing' is the work of the woman and 'carpentry' is the work of a man. There is no such thing as 'woman's' work and 'man's' work. Work is work, chores are chores. Really, I have to shake my head at that one.

I'm sorry, but I have trouble believing the whole "women get paid less for the same work as men" rhetoric and here's why: if women truly got paid less and were expected to do exactly the same work as a man, why would any employer hire a man? Employers could cut costs easily by merely hiring women, since they'd get the same amount of productivity, while reducing their own expenses. B)

Wasn't sure if you meant that seriously or not, but I don't think its rhetoric. There have been studies comparing average earnings between men and women for some time now. Its an established example of institutional prejudice.

Oh, I don't doubt women often get paid less.

What I'm wondering is... why would any employer, given the choice between two employees that can do the same amount of work, choose the one who would cost them more? It's not good business sense.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

How much money do you have to earn to support that little lot...

To the salt mines with them!

Gender roles are a matter for personal opinion? How extraordinary. I guess this is why it is taking so long for women to get paid the same as men for doing the same work in this country. That is appalling. Yes, men and women are differerent but there is nothing that dictates that the 'washing' is the work of the woman and 'carpentry' is the work of a man. There is no such thing as 'woman's' work and 'man's' work. Work is work, chores are chores. Really, I have to shake my head at that one.

I'm sorry, but I have trouble believing the whole "women get paid less for the same work as men" rhetoric and here's why: if women truly got paid less and were expected to do exactly the same work as a man, why would any employer hire a man? Employers could cut costs easily by merely hiring women, since they'd get the same amount of productivity, while reducing their own expenses. B)

Wasn't sure if you meant that seriously or not, but I don't think its rhetoric. There have been studies comparing average earnings between men and women for some time now. Its an established example of institutional prejudice.

Oh, I don't doubt women often get paid less.

What I'm wondering is... why would any employer, given the choice between two employees that can do the same amount of work, choose the one who would cost them more? It's not good business sense.

Because then it would be overt sexism and people would be consciously aware of exactly of what they are doing and why.

Edited February 7, 2008 by Number 6

[Dan J 277]

I mean, honestly, this is ONE FREAKING FAMILY. How are there 17 children doing anything. It isn't like the whole USA is seeing them on tv and thinking oh man that is a great idea.

You wanna make a bet? This logic is ridiculous. What kind of upbringing do you think these children are getting? They will more than likely turn into baby machines themselves. They have even shown on their documentary about gatherings they have with other families like them with upwards of 12 children. This isn't just ONE family. Get real.

There are quite a few families that are really large. This one isn't the only one.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Whether they can afford it or not - I do think that having 17 children and wanting X more is a tad irresponsible.

[Sprailenes 47]

For the record I have one. And one is all I am having.

Some people think I'm cruel and disgusting for raising him as an only child.

I was an only child and I turned out fine....sorta.

[wishbone 0]

(10 boys and 6 girls) Joshua, Jana & John-David (twins), Jill, Jessa, Jinger, Joseph, Josiah, Joy-Anna, Jedidiah & Jeremiah (twins), Jason, James, Justin, Jackson, Johannah (& Jennifer due July 28, 2007).

http://www.duggarfamily.com/aboutus.html

Wow, very interesting family. The couple really had a basketball team and a cheering squad. Glad the parents managed to keep them well mannered.

[yassmine2878 1]

they kinda creep me out too. they all seem so excited when they're talking about doing stuff together. also, I would go crazy without alone time. how many people in one bedroom? no thanks!

eta: I saw on the show the other night that the mom actually said they have a buddy system and the older kids take care of the younger ones like help them pick out clothes for school and get dressed and stuff because she can't do it all herself

IMO, they can have as many kids as they want. They're obviously dead set on doing so. But at what cost to the children? Its obvious the mother cannot care for all of them on her own. Much of the guidance and parenting duties are delegated to the older children. They're just creating a family of 'little parents'. Im not saying the kids, older or younger, should be allowed to run wild and free all the time. But how much childhood are these kids missing by being forced into the parental role when they're barely in their teens? And how much individual time do mom and dad actually get to spend with each child? To me, it seems a little sad to have so many children that you dont have time to build a close one-on-one bond. Do the kids have to make an appointment for a heart-to-heart talk with a parent? Or does that, too, get shoved off on an older sibling?

It bothers me when people suddenly see something in the bible and use it to justify what they want to do.

Are they saying the bible doesn't say they should adopt?

That is the crux of the issue to me...most pro-lifers love babies, but only their babies. Children waiting for adoption are ignored.

Its a fine example of people treating religion like a menu. Everyone interprets their religion a little differently from the next person, but some stuff is just straight out manipulation of the words to fit their own desires.

I dont ever see these folks adopting. For some reason, I dont think an adopted child would fit their cookie-cutter mold very well.

What I don't get is that the mom told us herself that her doctor tells her NOT to have any more babies because it's making her uterus very thin and she could rupture her uterus.

God's will?

God needs to give her the will to stop while she's ahead.

Ditto. How about God's will to take care of oneself? Knowingly having so many children that you damage your body isnt the nicest way to say "Thanks for the good health God!"

[Miranda&James 8]

I mean, honestly, this is ONE FREAKING FAMILY. How are there 17 children doing anything. It isn't like the whole USA is seeing them on tv and thinking oh man that is a great idea.

You wanna make a bet? This logic is ridiculous. What kind of upbringing do you think these children are getting? They will more than likely turn into baby machines themselves. They have even shown on their documentary about gatherings they have with other families like them with upwards of 12 children. This isn't just ONE family. Get real.

Actually, this logic is quite sound thank you very much. The average number of children per mother in the USA is around 2. Even if every single of the Duggar children has multiple children, I'd like to see them tip the census averages for a nation of hundred of millions of people. It's this wonderful thing called the normal distribution - you have extremes at each end but in general, most people fall right along the middle average. I'd find it quite amusing actually if the Duggars and others who subscribe to their belief system have the ability to completely skew the normal curve of fertility for an entire nation.

[Sprailenes 47]

As if there are SO many pages in this thread! Gawd!

All the other threads are starving for attention!!!

ONE THREAD CAN'T HAVE TONS OF PAGES! ITS IRRESPONSIBLE!

tee hee kidding.

Edited February 7, 2008 by Sprailenes

[Peikko 1,575]

Gender roles go so far beyond who does what job. Do you (I'm speaking in general to women) put makeup on? Wear clothes from the women's department? Wear high heels? Say m'am to a woman and sir to a man you are trying to be respectful to? Get called Mrs. or Ms. so and so? These are all things that define what it means to be a certain gender. I'm not saying what I think is right or wrong, just point out the general fact that gender roles encompass so much more than work, and what is thought to be appropriate for a man and woman can vary widely and is a matter usually that comes from personal opinion and societal upbringing.

I am sorry but I fail to see how a discussion of etiquette, manners and adornment has any relevance in a discussion on whether or not it's healthy to assign household chores according to some notion that some chores are more appropriate for a female and some more appropriate for a male. That is backward thinking. We know that women and men are both pefectly physically and mentally capable of cooking, cleaning, washing clothes and dishes, taking out the rubbish, cleaning the car, making beds, mowing the lawn, gardening and any number of other things that make up the running of a household. To assign these chores on a gender bias is simply absurd and serves to re-inforce stereotypes that most women have struggled long and hard to remove. What is for sure is that this kind of gender sterotyping is not just a matter of opinion. It's factually inacurate to ascribe chores as appropriate to either gender, end of story.

As to the rest, yes, manners maketh man, I get it. However, they certainly don't define either masculinity or feminity.

[Miranda&James 8]

As if there are SO many pages in this thread! Gawd!

All the other threads are starving for attention!!!

ONE THREAD CAN'T HAVE TONS OF PAGES! ITS IRRESPONSIBLE!

tee hee kidding.

Yes, I must cease my debating here because my lecture for my undergraduate students tomorrow is also starving for attention! I think the debate is thankfully slowing down and I certainly don't see a consensus happening anytime soon

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

I am sorry but I fail to see how a discussion of etiquette, manners and adornment has any relevance in a discussion on whether or not it's healthy to assign household chores according to some notion that some chores are more appropriate for a female and some more appropriate for a male. That is backward thinking. We know that women and men are both pefectly physically and mentally capable of cooking, cleaning, washing clothes and dishes, taking out the rubbish, cleaning the car, making beds, mowing the lawn, gardening and any number of other things that make up the running of a household. To assign these chores on a gender bias is simply absurd and serves to re-inforce stereotypes that most women have struggled long and hard to remove. What is for sure is that this kind of gender sterotyping is not just a matter of opinion. It's factually inacurate to ascribe chores as appropriate to either gender, end of story.

As to the rest, yes, manners maketh man, I get it. However, they certainly don't define either masculinity or feminity.

who let you out of the kitchen again?

[Peikko 1,575]

Actually, I like cooking.