from a moroccan forum discussing white marriage or marriage for papers

[morocco4ever 63]

And the sad thing is there's a woman somewhere that will go with this BS!

I actually found this post on a berber forum. i read it , read it again and was kind of shocked to see it in writing

but let me tell you a flip side. I actually know of one moroccan guy who married for papers, got his american wife pregnant and had a moroccan girlfriend on the side from back home. The moroccan guy decided he loved the "fat american" and decided to stay with her much to the furor of the moroccan girl.

I posted this post because I thought it gave a little insight into the perception of American women by SOME not all Moroccan women and how they view cross cultural marriages. The weirdness comes into play when the "man" does NOT leave the '"greencard" after he gets his papers. Then it becomes a guessing game for the "native" girls as to why he stayed the course with the "greencard".

Its perplexing to some North Africans when the SO stays with the person who sponsored them and does NOT return home and marry one of their own. Love really does rule sometimes, yes... and when it does its confusing often to those who thought they knew the score.....

I can't imagine being married to a man such as this. I don't care if he decided later that he loved me and chose to stay with me. The fact is that his morality is low enough that he would use a woman for a green card with the intent of breaking her heart in the end. A man like that is dispicable in my eyes.

I imagine that the majority of women here that were initially approached by her SO was already aware of the fact that he may only want a green card. I certainly didn't give my husband a chance to win my heart until I was sure that his intentions were sincere.

There are usually signs to this, and the smart women will watch for those signs. One of the prime examples was the man not wanting to take his wife back to visit Morocco. To be seen in public with her.

The thing is that it comes from all cultures, even here in the US. And it isn't just the old fat women that are the victims. It is any one that is lacking in self confidence. I have known some beautiful women that didn't have self confidence that was used and manipulated by men. Imagine her confidence level after that!

But not every relationship is for a green card, and I have seen my share of true love with several members of this forum. And I am 100% sure that when they deny petitions such as ours it is because they don't believe the relationship is real and they know that the ones that aren't will never make it through the process. In fact, when of the CO's in Morocco stated that "You would be surprised at the amount of returned petititions that don't come back to us".

Anyone who doesn't believe this happens is truly diluting the truth.

[garya505 2]

This thread has some potential to go very badly. Just a friendly reminder to keep it clean

Danger Ahead

[sarahaziz 0]

I believe that even if they married someone for a green card, something can happen after a couple of months since they are together for a long time and they can really start to love and see the sacrifice the other person is making. I'm pretty sure that occurs alot when they go in thinking its a game but it ends up becomming serious. But the using of the green card and having a gf on the side it still does occur. One thing I don't like is when Christian women change to Islam for their husbands b/c of love simply because they like how arab culture is, and want to be apartof it or don't want hardship in the future, etc.. Women should stand up for their rights. No man can use a strong hearted and minded woman.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

And the sad thing is there's a woman somewhere that will go with this BS!

I actually found this post on a berber forum. i read it , read it again and was kind of shocked to see it in writing

but let me tell you a flip side. I actually know of one moroccan guy who married for papers, got his american wife pregnant and had a moroccan girlfriend on the side from back home. The moroccan guy decided he loved the "fat american" and decided to stay with her much to the furor of the moroccan girl.

I posted this post because I thought it gave a little insight into the perception of American women by SOME not all Moroccan women and how they view cross cultural marriages. The weirdness comes into play when the "man" does NOT leave the '"greencard" after he gets his papers. Then it becomes a guessing game for the "native" girls as to why he stayed the course with the "greencard".

Its perplexing to some North Africans when the SO stays with the person who sponsored them and does NOT return home and marry one of their own. Love really does rule sometimes, yes... and when it does its confusing often to those who thought they knew the score.....

I can't imagine being married to a man such as this. I don't care if he decided later that he loved me and chose to stay with me. The fact is that his morality is low enough that he would use a woman for a green card with the intent of breaking her heart in the end. A man like that is dispicable in my eyes.

I imagine that the majority of women here that were initially approached by her SO was already aware of the fact that he may only want a green card. I certainly didn't give my husband a chance to win my heart until I was sure that his intentions were sincere.

There are usually signs to this, and the smart women will watch for those signs. One of the prime examples was the man not wanting to take his wife back to visit Morocco. To be seen in public with her.

The thing is that it comes from all cultures, even here in the US. And it isn't just the old fat women that are the victims. It is any one that is lacking in self confidence. I have known some beautiful women that didn't have self confidence that was used and manipulated by men. Imagine her confidence level after that!

But not every relationship is for a green card, and I have seen my share of true love with several members of this forum. And I am 100% sure that when they deny petitions such as ours it is because they don't believe the relationship is real and they know that the ones that aren't will never make it through the process. In fact, when of the CO's in Morocco stated that "You would be surprised at the amount of returned petititions that don't come back to us".

Anyone who doesn't believe this happens is truly diluting the truth.

I have seen men using their wives take them back to the home country. thats no reassurance of anything. The woman that I talked about before went their several times. If everyone is in the know that she is just his ticket out, they will play the game.

I am pregnant with my husbands baby and I can guarantee you that several of his family members are NOT happy because our marriage in their eyes was for his papers and for him to better his life. In fact, I believe this wholeheartedly and i am NOT UGLY or looks deprived but i know enough about my husbands culture to know the score. when a girl who is pretty and 26 and divorced cannot find a man to marry her because everyone wants a virgin with no kids, how can I NOT have it in the back of my mind that as a divorced woman with kids, that I am second choice and second best and the beauty mark that I have is my us passport.

and I am pregnant guys... and even I have to accept reality. Walking you around is not proof of a damn thing. How is heart feels and how is family deals with you is a much stronger indicator.

Arabs want kids. They want wives who can give them kids. But even I PReGNANT with his baby have major doubts about his family s perception and eventual acceptance of me and my baby. I know all of this sounds harsh but this is NOT AmericAN society.

We are talking about a society where unwed mothers put their babies in orphanages and where virginity is really a premium. Whether you want to face it or not, you need to look how women are treated in terms of how they are looked at in the usa. In the usa you can reinvent yourself if you sleep around,,,,, there... absolutely NO. The rules are completely different than here. Its been a heartbreaking reality for me to accept,,,,, but I have had to and after 8 years around north africans, I have had to swallow alot of my feelings and deal with strictly reality.... Looks and age matter....some to more and less to others... There is NO guarantee that the man will stay with you in the long run

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I believe that even if they married someone for a green card, something can happen after a couple of months since they are together for a long time and they can really start to love and see the sacrifice the other person is making. I'm pretty sure that occurs alot when they go in thinking its a game but it ends up becomming serious. But the using of the green card and having a gf on the side it still does occur. One thing I don't like is when Christian women change to Islam for their husbands b/c of love simply because they like how arab culture is, and want to be apartof it or don't want hardship in the future, etc.. Women should stand up for their rights. No man can use a strong hearted and minded woman.

This is absolutely true Sarah.... absolutely so.... I know you are algerian so you , reading my post below will be able to relate to alot of the emotions I am having. You are an algerian woman and you know how badly algerian women are judged and how western wives are perceived. A wife is your "niff", how you are perceived ( niff means nose) and neighbors and family can be really harsh on a man's choice of bride. In some ways I wish I knew LESS than I do because I really "get" for the most part, how women are perceived. I have spent years devoted to the history of Algeria and I have a loving relationship with its people. Even if I was to be badly hurt by my husband, I would not lose my love for that country or its people. But with that, I also know the limitations of the culture and how women are perceived. American women, especially highly educated American women do not have a great deal in common with the average Algerian housewife, who s duty is to have coffee ready at 4 and all meals ready and clothes ironed. You are there to make his life worth coming home to, NOT to have a mouth or mind of your own. Cooking is valued. Housekeeping is valued. This is what women are born to do. When a man marries, he wants a woman his mom likes.... that the bottom line. The good the bad the ugly so be it. There are things you just cannot fight...

If your marriage survives cultural norms... yeah

If it doesnt, keep in mind there is a whole lot more than love involved thats for sure

[sarahaziz 0]

You know in Gods eyes after marriage its wife first, kids, and then your family. When I was in my village my spouses aunt tryed to teach me how to wash dishes he said no don't tell her how to do this she can do as she like and he said do as you like love its ok. His aunt doesn't like me now from that day and she tryed to do many problems with us. My mom in law she stopped to talk with her own sister because of the problems and lies she wanted to do in our marriage. In my marriage day we are not suppose to be together but he was there in front of 200 people holding my hand. Really proof is more strong than words. Words of love they are in that moment his actions is what speaks loud and they will prove to you what kind of man he is. The problems I struggle with is religion only. I'm christian he is muslim of course. I'm algerian but i lived here in america mostly and some in algeria because my parents didn't want me to carry "modern mentality" as we have in america for virginity, bf's, going out with friends to disco, etc.. I asked my spouse what if i had kids or divorced before would you still be my bf or married with me? He said for love a man can do anything, maybe he can't accept that kid as his own kid but if i know your husband before did bad things to you such as beat you or didn't love you and you are alone like that I will marry with you only if i loved you. Everybodys situation and acceptance varies.

[Bassi and Zainab 1]

Knowing that people suffer and might do sinful, hurtful things to try to stop the suffering I understand, though I don't condone. I don't understand the bystanders. The people who would consider themselves a "girlfriend" to a man who is married and have intimate relations falsely with another woman. The ability to put your morals "away" to commit such acts would totally turn me off. Unless they are also "using" these men as their ticket out. I guess I wonder how many of these so called "relationships" work in the long run. It's a lonely existence. How could you trust each other? Would repentance ever be enough?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Arabs want kids. They want wives who can give them kids. But even I PReGNANT with his baby have major doubts about his family s perception and eventual acceptance of me and my baby. I know all of this sounds harsh but this is NOT AmericAN society.

This is as much of a stereotype as western women are easy to get into bed, a common stereotype in the ME. I'm Arab, and this old carnard coming from western women is getting old.

Edited February 5, 2008 by Virtual wife

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Arabs want kids. They want wives who can give them kids. But even I PReGNANT with his baby have major doubts about his family s perception and eventual acceptance of me and my baby. I know all of this sounds harsh but this is NOT AmericAN society.

This is as much of a stereotype as western women are easy to get into bed, a common stereotype in the ME. I'm Arab, and this old carnard coming from western women is getting old.

get real......this isnt western....this is islam.......and u are not first generation arab.....so stop throwing the arab card around....most want kids....if they dont have them...most hurt about it at one time or another

You know in Gods eyes after marriage its wife first, kids, and then your family. When I was in my village my spouses aunt tryed to teach me how to wash dishes he said no don't tell her how to do this she can do as she like and he said do as you like love its ok. His aunt doesn't like me now from that day and she tryed to do many problems with us. My mom in law she stopped to talk with her own sister because of the problems and lies she wanted to do in our marriage. In my marriage day we are not suppose to be together but he was there in front of 200 people holding my hand. Really proof is more strong than words. Words of love they are in that moment his actions is what speaks loud and they will prove to you what kind of man he is. The problems I struggle with is religion only. I'm christian he is muslim of course. I'm algerian but i lived here in america mostly and some in algeria because my parents didn't want me to carry "modern mentality" as we have in america for virginity, bf's, going out with friends to disco, etc.. I asked my spouse what if i had kids or divorced before would you still be my bf or married with me? He said for love a man can do anything, maybe he can't accept that kid as his own kid but if i know your husband before did bad things to you such as beat you or didn't love you and you are alone like that I will marry with you only if i loved you. Everybodys situation and acceptance varies.

is youy mom american?I have never a met a single algerian christian ever

[Imua 0]

I have seen men using their wives take them back to the home country. thats no reassurance of anything. The woman that I talked about before went their several times. If everyone is in the know that she is just his ticket out, they will play the game.

I am pregnant with my husbands baby and I can guarantee you that several of his family members are NOT happy because our marriage in their eyes was for his papers and for him to better his life. In fact, I believe this wholeheartedly and i am NOT UGLY or looks deprived but i know enough about my husbands culture to know the score. when a girl who is pretty and 26 and divorced cannot find a man to marry her because everyone wants a virgin with no kids, how can I NOT have it in the back of my mind that as a divorced woman with kids, that I am second choice and second best and the beauty mark that I have is my us passport.

and I am pregnant guys... and even I have to accept reality. Walking you around is not proof of a damn thing. How is heart feels and how is family deals with you is a much stronger indicator.

Arabs want kids. They want wives who can give them kids. But even I PReGNANT with his baby have major doubts about his family s perception and eventual acceptance of me and my baby. I know all of this sounds harsh but this is NOT AmericAN society.

We are talking about a society where unwed mothers put their babies in orphanages and where virginity is really a premium. Whether you want to face it or not, you need to look how women are treated in terms of how they are looked at in the usa. In the usa you can reinvent yourself if you sleep around,,,,, there... absolutely NO. The rules are completely different than here. Its been a heartbreaking reality for me to accept,,,,, but I have had to and after 8 years around north africans, I have had to swallow alot of my feelings and deal with strictly reality.... Looks and age matter....some to more and less to others... There is NO guarantee that the man will stay with you in the long run

My husband and I would walk hand in hand in KTM and nobody would stare at us. His family seem 100% welcoming and loving. Still I know Nepali culture and am not totally convinced. This is a country which has never had a single woman in government and until recently it was legal for women to be kept out of the house during their period - in villages they were made to sleep in the same qurters as the cows and goats... .

One time we were walking on his street together and a 20something girl said to him in Nepali, "You want a visa?" and it hurt me very much, as if she thought that was all I had to offer.. I am definitely one of those low self-confidence women - I have a disability and went through school as the designated 'ugly chick'... I am not overweight but I am not a typical 100lb Nepali kanchi either.... I am probably too old to have children, especially once he gets here and our living situation improves... Still stupid stupid me I think maybe there might be something in me that a man would love-what an idiot I am... By some people's reasoning here I should just kill myself or start collecting animals and wearing cardigans since I am not a 20 year old beauty... I have never been pregnant before and never had much of a social life so there was not the 'stigma' of divorce or kids, still he knows I was not a virgin when we married so I have a lot of strikes against me.... I have seen stories in the Major Family Changes forum where the man abandoned his wife even after she had his baby, so I guess even being fertile is no guarantee...

It is all a ####### shoot and my philosophy now is he is innocent until proven guilty - he has never given me a reason to believe he is with me ONLY for a GC. I did marry him knowing he wanted to improve his life and live overseas for a while so maybe for that I am stupid, to think maybe just maybe I might have something more than a passport to offer... I know I am not an ideal wife from a Nepali POV and I know when he gets his 10-year GC and he gets his feet on the ground jobwise it will be nerve-wracking wondering if he will stay or go - like you say there is absolutely no guarantee he will be here in the long run. Still, if I hadn't met Govi I would definitely be looking at a lonely life so it is a chance I am willing to take.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I have seen men using their wives take them back to the home country. thats no reassurance of anything. The woman that I talked about before went their several times. If everyone is in the know that she is just his ticket out, they will play the game.

I am pregnant with my husbands baby and I can guarantee you that several of his family members are NOT happy because our marriage in their eyes was for his papers and for him to better his life. In fact, I believe this wholeheartedly and i am NOT UGLY or looks deprived but i know enough about my husbands culture to know the score. when a girl who is pretty and 26 and divorced cannot find a man to marry her because everyone wants a virgin with no kids, how can I NOT have it in the back of my mind that as a divorced woman with kids, that I am second choice and second best and the beauty mark that I have is my us passport.

and I am pregnant guys... and even I have to accept reality. Walking you around is not proof of a damn thing. How is heart feels and how is family deals with you is a much stronger indicator.

Arabs want kids. They want wives who can give them kids. But even I PReGNANT with his baby have major doubts about his family s perception and eventual acceptance of me and my baby. I know all of this sounds harsh but this is NOT AmericAN society.

We are talking about a society where unwed mothers put their babies in orphanages and where virginity is really a premium. Whether you want to face it or not, you need to look how women are treated in terms of how they are looked at in the usa. In the usa you can reinvent yourself if you sleep around,,,,, there... absolutely NO. The rules are completely different than here. Its been a heartbreaking reality for me to accept,,,,, but I have had to and after 8 years around north africans, I have had to swallow alot of my feelings and deal with strictly reality.... Looks and age matter....some to more and less to others... There is NO guarantee that the man will stay with you in the long run

My husband and I would walk hand in hand in KTM and nobody would stare at us. His family seem 100% welcoming and loving. Still I know Nepali culture and am not totally convinced. This is a country which has never had a single woman in government and until recently it was legal for women to be kept out of the house during their period - in villages they were made to sleep in the same qurters as the cows and goats... .

One time we were walking on his street together and a 20something girl said to him in Nepali, "You want a visa?" and it hurt me very much, as if she thought that was all I had to offer.. I am definitely one of those low self-confidence women - I have a disability and went through school as the designated 'ugly chick'... I am not overweight but I am not a typical 100lb Nepali kanchi either.... I am probably too old to have children, especially once he gets here and our living situation improves... Still stupid stupid me I think maybe there might be something in me that a man would love-what an idiot I am... By some people's reasoning here I should just kill myself or start collecting animals and wearing cardigans since I am not a 20 year old beauty... I have never been pregnant before and never had much of a social life so there was not the 'stigma' of divorce or kids, still he knows I was not a virgin when we married so I have a lot of strikes against me.... I have seen stories in the Major Family Changes forum where the man abandoned his wife even after she had his baby, so I guess even being fertile is no guarantee...

It is all a ####### shoot and my philosophy now is he is innocent until proven guilty - he has never given me a reason to believe he is with me ONLY for a GC. I did marry him knowing he wanted to improve his life and live overseas for a while so maybe for that I am stupid, to think maybe just maybe I might have something more than a passport to offer... I know I am not an ideal wife from a Nepali POV and I know when he gets his 10-year GC and he gets his feet on the ground jobwise it will be nerve-wracking wondering if he will stay or go - like you say there is absolutely no guarantee he will be here in the long run. Still, if I hadn't met Govi I would definitely be looking at a lonely life so it is a chance I am willing to take.

I think you are lovely and no I am not just saying that. You are.. You are also incredibly vibrant and interesting... eat the ravioli.

You will have to explain to everyone what that means

[Carolyn 1]

I know an Algerian Christian and a Moroccan Christian...they now live in France, but work as ministers/misssionaries to the North African community. The woman even travels back to Algeria frequently and claims that there is a growing Christian community there.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I know an Algerian Christian and a Moroccan Christian...they now live in France, but work as ministers/misssionaries to the North African community. The woman even travels back to Algeria frequently and claims that there is a growing Christian community there.

I have never met any.... i think especially having an algerian father, most algerian fathers unless their was a divorce would never tolerate conversion. in the kabilye community, who very likely decended from early christians of annaba and carthage, there have been inroads but bringing bibles into algeria and distributing them is illegal. Interestingly enough, one of the first books published in amazigh the language of algerian berbers was the bible...

still very very very very highly unusual to meet an algerian christian...thats why i asked if her mom was western

[Sofiyya 1,687]

get real......this isnt western....this is islam.......and u are not first generation arab.....so stop throwing the arab card around....most want kids....if they dont have them...most hurt about it at one time or another

You get real coz you really have no idea what you are talking about. You started this thread so you could engage in stereotypes about Arabs marrying westerners. You don't know the first thing about Islam, nor about what most Arabs want or feel. I've forgotten more about both than you ever knew. Just because you married an Algerian doesn't make you any kind of expect on Arabs and Islam.

Reading your constantly angry posts that slam nearly everyone and everything, I'm sure no one can convince you of anything that will make you feel better than the perpetually sad state you seem enjoy wallowing in. If stereotypes suit you, then you will choose to believe them. You should, however, learn something more about Islam and Arabs before you start throwing around stereotypes about it, cause that will not be taken lightly.

Edited February 6, 2008 by Virtual wife

[Jen C 2008 0]

get real......this isnt western....this is islam.......and u are not first generation arab.....so stop throwing the arab card around....most want kids....if they dont have them...most hurt about it at one time or another

You get real coz you really have no idea what you are talking about. You started this thread so you could engage in stereotypes about Arabs marrying westerners. You don't know the first thing about Islam, nor about what most Arabs want or feel. I've forgotten more about both than you ever knew. Just because you married an Algerian doesn't make you any kind of expect on Arabs and Islam.

Reading your constantly angry posts that slam nearly everyone and everything, I'm sure no one can convince you of anything that will make you feel better than the perpetually sad state you seem enjoy wallowing in. If stereotypes suit you, then you will choose to believe them. You should, however, learn something more about Islam and Arabs before you start throwing around stereotypes about it, cause that will not be taken lightly.

well said these sweeping generalizations are really uncalled for ! why do you take such pleasure in these type of postings?