ababdonment

[tito 1]

LOL! How ironic to have a post about the last word. Well, you have the last word then...or we can go on like this, you getting the last word telling me about how I need to get the last word, but that's ridiculous. I thought the, "I know you are but what am I" stuff was behind us.

With a huge tug of the reins, back to the issue at hand...the unfortunate circumstances of the OP. I'm simply relating information that is or might be helpful to him. This thread became about "me" for the agenda of others...and it should not be.

Edited February 4, 2008 by tito

[William33 110]

As a reminder, the OP was asking for advice. We do not offer professional opinions here, rather anecdotal information that may be useful to the OP.

The back and forth needs to stop, as this does not help the OP in any way whatsoever.

[mtracksport 0]

well i might as well give my thoughts on this while it is still fresh. tito and i have had some discussion about this type of situation in the past few days and as much as i hate to say it he may be on to something. am going through a situation with a employee so have not had time to comment till tonight . a good friend of mine met a girl from russia on the internet (very good looking) they talked for awhile and then after 6 months he went to see her. (even better) within a year she was here and they were married. after 6 months of marriage she told him something that knocked his socks off. seems she never had any intentions of staying married after she got here and originally had planned through a agency in Moscow the divorce, claims of abuse, how to create bruises ect. the whole plan was done as soon as he proposed and filed for the fiance visa. the agency even helped her fill out the paperwork so all she had to do was submit it. cool huh? // now the good part. the dumb sh-t must have done something right because she fell in love with him and wants to spend the rest of her life with him. she had twins last November and is expecting again. they are very happy, but she warns that there are agencys that are based in moscow and the U.S. that are doing this to unsuspecting USC. so i have to say (just this one time tito might be on to something) i know this is not the same in all cases but there are far more from russia being reported than anywhere else. they sure produce beautiful women in russia though. must be the caviar AL

[StillThePrettiest 3]

the issue is not whether tito is 'on to something' or not; he may be, he may not be; certainly it's not unreasonable for someone to put something out there as part of the general information that makes up this thread... what I, and what I think most other people have objected to, is his manner; however many hundred words he types justifying himself, HE COMES ACROSS AS ALARMIST, SUBJECTIVE AND EMOTIVE

this is not about 'sugar coating', or somehow avoiding the issue; the opposite of 'subjective' is 'objective', and in this sort of situation the latter is far better

telling someone what WILL happen, and IS true, a la:

The next you will hear from her is from an attorney claiming abuse so that she can self-apply for a green card under form I-130. She knew about it before she got here, and had it all set up in advance. VERY VERY common for Russian wives. 2 months is about the time-frame. She will claim that you kept her as a sexual slave, that you did not allow her to leave the house, that you locked her in a room, all of that. The attorneys have the forms already pre-filled out. That will lead to domestic violence proceedings for a restraining order, and she might even be taken to a psychologist for all of the trauma she went through at your hands.

is subjective, in the extreme, and as such unhelpful, possibly even dangerous

it might be excusable as a dramatic device, in a novel, but in a forum purporting to give advice? NOT APPROPRIATE

even is he's right, even he's 100% right, he DOESN'T KNOW, AND YET HE CLAIMS TO

if anything, this undermines anything factual about his claims

the SAME INFORMATION/OPINION could have been given in such a manner:

'Unfortunately, in my experience this is a common occurrence. I have heard of women claiming abuse so that they can self-apply for a green card under form I-130. It's even possible that it was set up in advance, although of course I don't know your personal situation...' etc etc

I would be surprised if the content of tito's endless posts is as accurate as he claims, however I have been surprised before and certainly this isn't an area of expertise for me, so I'm not arguing on that score... no, the issue here is the way he thinks his manner and wording is appropriate, when it's inappropriate in the extreme

if, as he claims, this is the language he 'would use to a client' then all I can do is repeat what I said above: for Og's sake, get a professional manner

[tito 1]

Why is how I post, the content of my post, or the emotion or zeal behind my posts an issue at all? Who says what is "appropriate" under the circumstances? My goodness! And someone here was critical of ME for being aggressive?? Wow. I guess we DO believe what we want to believe and see only what we want to see. There's nothing offensive in the tone or content of the posts, or objectionable...there's no name calling or accusations on my part, only those directed at me. I have a background on this very issue that goes beyond being a victim...I'm not here to dispense professional advice, but to respond to the OP's issue and enlighten him, and others, to the consequences of something that I see in practice happening quite frequently with the same fact pattern and same circumstances. What is wrong with that?

Fact: this stuff happens ALL - THE - TIME. As I said, and as is quoted, it's something "VERY VERY COMMON for Russian wives". All Russian wives? NO! The ones that run off without a word after a 2 month marriage? YES - probably upwards of 99.997%. So, the odds are pretty good this is one of those times.

Without analyzing the situation, some of you posters are jumping quantum boundaries to leap to conclusions that are total non-sequitors. You contend I presume the worst, and that may be the case - but it's what's happening and what happens. This is the fact pattern that I see in the course of my colleague's practice all the time. I am relating my experience in what I see, hear, understand, have discovered, about Russian brides in particular who skip out on their spouse and sponsor, and what they TYPICALLY do, and what is their next maneuver. If the odds play out, that is what will happen here. As I state, it's "VERY VERY COMMON". Granted, no one can tell the future, but the future can be predicted given a certain set of circumstances and fact patterns. I hope I'm wrong...I do...but it doesn't seem like that is the case. Yet some of you posters are still on my case for being honest and forthright.

People who come looking for assistance don't want smoke blown up their noses...they want to know what is likely to be the extent of their exposure. They don't want false hope! This is not a place for warm fuzzies...stuff is happening...BAD stuff...and people need to protect themselves because the consequences are grave. You go to a doctor who discovers you have a brain tumor, do you want him to tell you to go home, take 2 aspirin, and call him in the morning? Or do you want the reality? Here, I gave the reasonably probable result given the circumstances based on my background and experience in matters of this sort.

You don't like my writing style, syntax, approach, perceived demeanor? I'm sorry - but the sensibilities of everyone are not the same. Many of these posts are just a series of personal attacks, and now people are trying to tell me how to post! Gee, thanks.

Please stick to the subject matter, not the poster.

Edited February 5, 2008 by tito

[StillThePrettiest 3]

I have not been aggressive, nor have I called names

you ask: 'Why is how I post, the content of my post, or the emotion or zeal behind my posts an issue at all?'

they are crucially important, because these things colour the extent of confidence one can have in the information given... I am an English teacher by profession, though I'm not working in that field at present, and have done countless classes on LANGUAGE: how the tone, words chosen, way of writing, expression, etc play a vital role in the meaning coming across to readers... if you are unaware of this, or even further, claim it not to be so, I am astounded

we would not trust a journalist who betrayed a personal bias at every turn; the same goes for situations like this... which is why I have been careful to use phrases like 'comes across' and 'seems like', in relation to your posts; I want to make the distinction between my opinion, and fact, which is a distinction you repeatedly fail to draw

as it seems to me, if someone's aim of posting here is truly to impart information, and be of assistance, and a number of people say that the manner in which they attempt to impart information and be of assistance results in the opposite of that, then I would think that the person would reconsider those aspects of their posting style; that's just common sense

if there's another aim, then they won't listen to anyone on that regard, and will continue to justify that they're right, and everyone else is wrong

(I note that once again your post largely defended the CONTENT of your posts - I specifically said, on more than one occasion, I was not debating that)

Edited February 5, 2008 by StillThePrettiest

[john_and_marlene 162]

More often than not, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck--it's a duck.

I'd rather someone pulled the fire alarm during a fire than have someone stand on the sideline and say how they hope everyone will be OK.

[StillThePrettiest 3]

would you feel the same way if they ran screaming down the corridor yelling that there WAS a fire, so that hundreds of people stampeded out of the building, maybe getting hurt in the process, and then later sheepishly said that they had seen some smoke and just assumed...?

I will state, AGAIN: I have no problem with this scenario (ie runaway bride had it planned from the beginning etc etc) being put out there as ONE POSSIBLE SCENARIO

it can even be stated as THE MOST LIKELY scenario

however, to state it as FACT is irresponsible, at best

and THAT is the issue I have been debating

there are ways and means of 'raising the alarm', as you put it, and it's NOT just about 'say it my way, or don't say it at all'; if you can read all I've said above and still come away with that conclusion then I despair

Edited February 5, 2008 by StillThePrettiest

[john_and_marlene 162]

would you feel the same way if they ran screaming down the corridor yelling that there WAS a fire, so that hundreds of people stampeded out of the building, maybe getting hurt in the process, and then later sheepishly said that they had seen some smoke and just assumed...?

I will state, AGAIN: I have no problem with this scenario (ie runaway bride had it planned from the beginning etc etc) being put out there as ONE POSSIBLE SCENARIO

it can even be stated as THE MOST LIKELY scenario

however, to state it as FACT is irresponsible, at best

and THAT is the issue I have been debating

there are ways and means of 'raising the alarm', as you put it, and it's NOT just about 'say it my way, or don't say it at all'; if you can read all I've said above and still come away with that conclusion then I despair

If I had been commenting regarding your posts, I would have quoted them. You seem to be jumping to conclusions.

[zqt3344 21]

RIGHT ON!

I don't understand why everybody is up and attacking tito for his comments. He gave his views on how the OP should protect himself from possible situations that *could* come into play by his wife splitting. Generalizations as they may be about Russian women, they do happen, they happen so often that their are soo many stories of them.

I ride with 2 guys on the train each day for the past 7 yrs to work. Both found their Russian ladies to end up in the exact situation as the OP has described and tito. The Russian ladies are trained before they leave Russia on the process. They have people here locally that keep on with the schooling of what the process is and how to prepare for the split, and what to have taken care of before she can take off running. They choose their mates by location practically, due to other Russian ladies (and where they are) that will be able to help/coach them in the US on the next steps. This is a well thought out plan. It is the USCs who get fooled in the process because they have no idea what is comming.

The process of getting an SSN, a drivers license, car & credit card are standard practice before they leave. Then comes the filing for abuse to get the GC. Happened to people I know, so I'm speaking from their experiences. This forum is to help those in problems with advice. I belive that's what tito was doing, giving advice about the possible sitiations that arrise after the OPs wife took off with no form of contact. So attacks from others, who don't have experience on the topic aren't fair or knowledgable and shouldn't have a place here on VJ.

[zqt3344 21]

YOU ARE RIGHT ON! and everything you just said in this post is what I tried to say in previous post kindly, I have even had my own spouse from that part of the world warn me about this sort of scam, and to make sure I tell any of my American friends that are thinking about meeting any Russian or Ukrainian or former Soviet Union women, for what you just described does go on and the women are coached and do not think twice about this scam/hustle and it is all pre-planned with lots of advice and help in advance, even those dating agencies or mail order bride services. I remember when I first had my spouse tell me about this, I was shocked, but was told to open my eyes it goes on and to tell any America to be very careful when going the mail order bride or Russian/Ukraine or former Soviet Union dating services route. Another thing is that fact that lot of times it is done purely for the money, sadly there is no love involved at all. I could go on and on and cite many and numerous examples of this that I have seen first hand but Tito and you are on it and say it so well.

well i might as well give my thoughts on this while it is still fresh. tito and i have had some discussion about this type of situation in the past few days and as much as i hate to say it he may be on to something. am going through a situation with a employee so have not had time to comment till tonight . a good friend of mine met a girl from russia on the internet (very good looking) they talked for awhile and then after 6 months he went to see her. (even better) within a year she was here and they were married. after 6 months of marriage she told him something that knocked his socks off. seems she never had any intentions of staying married after she got here and originally had planned through a agency in Moscow the divorce, claims of abuse, how to create bruises ect. the whole plan was done as soon as he proposed and filed for the fiance visa. the agency even helped her fill out the paperwork so all she had to do was submit it. cool huh? // now the good part. the dumb sh-t must have done something right because she fell in love with him and wants to spend the rest of her life with him. she had twins last November and is expecting again. they are very happy, but she warns that there are agencys that are based in moscow and the U.S. that are doing this to unsuspecting USC. so i have to say (just this one time tito might be on to something) i know this is not the same in all cases but there are far more from russia being reported than anywhere else. they sure produce beautiful women in russia though. must be the caviar AL

[Nanusia & Lukaszek 0]

would you feel the same way if they ran screaming down the corridor yelling that there WAS a fire, so that hundreds of people stampeded out of the building, maybe getting hurt in the process, and then later sheepishly said that they had seen some smoke and just assumed...?

I will state, AGAIN: I have no problem with this scenario (ie runaway bride had it planned from the beginning etc etc) being put out there as ONE POSSIBLE SCENARIO

it can even be stated as THE MOST LIKELY scenario

however, to state it as FACT is irresponsible, at best

and THAT is the issue I have been debating

there are ways and means of 'raising the alarm', as you put it, and it's NOT just about 'say it my way, or don't say it at all'; if you can read all I've said above and still come away with that conclusion then I despair

There are many possible scenario's why someone can run. But when you hear what has happened to the OP in steps, and know people who had experienced with EXACT same situations time and time again, and 99.9% of the time it was all set up. You know its all fraud from the get go, and you should protect yourself immediately, that's the point of this whole thread.

If there is smoke, there is a fire. Don't assume there isn't. Pull the alarm, warn others.

People here stating that the OP's bride was set up, are speaking from experiences or stories from who this has happened to. You are stating that it doesn't or is not the scenario, based on what?

[mox 298]

would you feel the same way if they ran screaming down the corridor yelling that there WAS a fire, so that hundreds of people stampeded out of the building, maybe getting hurt in the process, and then later sheepishly said that they had seen some smoke and just assumed...?

I will state, AGAIN: I have no problem with this scenario (ie runaway bride had it planned from the beginning etc etc) being put out there as ONE POSSIBLE SCENARIO

it can even be stated as THE MOST LIKELY scenario

however, to state it as FACT is irresponsible, at best

and THAT is the issue I have been debating

there are ways and means of 'raising the alarm', as you put it, and it's NOT just about 'say it my way, or don't say it at all'; if you can read all I've said above and still come away with that conclusion then I despair

There are many possible scenario's why someone can run. But when you hear what has happened to the OP in steps, and know people who had experienced with EXACT same situations time and time again, and 99.9% of the time it was all set up. You know its all fraud from the get go, and you should protect yourself immediately, that's the point of this whole thread.

If there is smoke, there is a fire. Don't assume there isn't. Pull the alarm, warn others.

People here stating that the OP's bride was set up, are speaking from experiences or stories from who this has happened to. You are stating that it doesn't or is not the scenario, based on what?

Why did you quote StP, but not address her post? She already said she's not arguing the possibility. What she said is...well you should actually read what she said because it really has nothing to do with your response. Tito gets a pass because tito must always be right. But the rest of us should really know better than to quote without reading/comprehending.

[tito 1]

I was wrong once. That one time I actually thought I was wrong. But I wasn't.

Seriously, people...there's no way to sugar coat some things when they're like a huge left hook coming at you in super-slow motion. You see it coming, so you take necessary precautions. If the way the warning comes offends your particular sensitivities, well, grow up and deal with it. If you are one who was offended or whose sensibilities were ruffled, I humbly apologize. Still...deal with it. Those sensitivities are obviously not common to everyone, and some people understand the manner in which the posts on this thread were intended.

So says The Wolf: "If I'm curt with you it's because time is a factor. I think fast, I talk fast and I need you guys to act fast if you wanna get out of this. So, pretty please... with sugar on top. Clean the ****ng car!"

This stuff just cannot be sugar-coated so that we all have warm fuzzies.

Edited February 5, 2008 by tito

[Jeraly 4]

So says The Wolf: "If I'm curt with you it's because time is a factor. I think fast, I talk fast and I need you guys to act fast if you wanna get out of this. So, pretty please... with sugar on top. Clean the ****ng car!"

So fast that you need nine hundred and sixty seven posts to say it?