ababdonment

[TracyTN 237]

Advice to protect oneself and to consider different possibilities would be good and helpful. To state emphatically the motives of the spouse who we have absolutely no knowledge of except that she's made some friends while here in the states and has run off are not only wide-brushed, but threaten to destroy an already volatile situation. We can sit here and postulate in an academic-like fashion about how worthy are the contributions of a poster, but unfortunately tito seems to have snagged himself a live one and is content to let that baby wriggle on the hook for as long as it interests him, without having to endure the consequences. This is what's so frustrating. I'm sorry if tito's experienced the type of pain he describes, but if I started handing out advice based on my previous marriage then I'd be counseling everyone who has a wife to divorce her right the hell now because she is cheating on him. We all have battle scars but it doesn't mean we have to turn our internal pain outwards onto others. And it's certainly not always helpful or valuable, especially here.

[JVKn'CVO 11]

Sorry Mags but Tito is correct and right on to an extent. Mox, TracyTN and any others upset at Tito, hate to say it but Tito is right to extent, it can and it does happen and make no mistake about it, whether it is Russia or whatever country there are some very sneaky dishonest spouses out there, and there always will be. Truth is and speaking from first hand knowledge, I have witnessed and seen and know people that have experienced what Tito says happens with Russian spouses, and for that matter other spouses from other countries, so we all realize there is good and bad in all races and cultures even our own. But all Tito is doing is trying to help Abandoned who is in a real mess now asking for help, which Abandoned better get ready, I am afraid Tito is telling you the sad truth of what is probably going to happen to you next, which I realize there will be several on here reading this clamoring on and going off but it is the truth.

Mainly, I'd like to think that Tito is wrong and most couples are in it for love, and yeah there are some people that are in it to abuse the system but that they are a small porcentage.

The heat I think comes from Tito generalizing and attacking women from X country, instead of providing advice for the OP's specific situation. Something in the lines of "here are possible scenarios blah blah and you might want to do this and that to protect yourself just in case..." I think would have been better received than "almost all women from X country will (insert terrible thing here) and there is this big conspiracy behind it with people coaching her on how to do it".

Saludos,

Caro

[garya505 2]

Sorry Mags but Tito is correct and right on to an extent. Mox, TracyTN and any others upset at Tito, hate to say it but Tito is right to extent, it can and it does happen and make no mistake about it, whether it is Russia or whatever country there are some very sneaky dishonest spouses out there, and there always will be. Truth is and speaking from first hand knowledge, I have witnessed and seen and know people that have experienced what Tito says happens with Russian spouses, and for that matter other spouses from other countries, so we all realize there is good and bad in all races and cultures even our own. But all Tito is doing is trying to help Abandoned who is in a real mess now asking for help, which Abandoned better get ready, I am afraid Tito is telling you the sad truth of what is probably going to happen to you next, which I realize there will be several on here reading this clamoring on and going off but it is the truth.

Mainly, I'd like to think that Tito is wrong and most couples are in it for love, and yeah there are some people that are in it to abuse the system but that they are a small porcentage.

The heat I think comes from Tito generalizing and attacking women from X country, instead of providing advice for the OP's specific situation. Something in the lines of "here are possible scenarios blah blah and you might want to do this and that to protect yourself just in case..." I think would have been better received than "almost all women from X country will (insert terrible thing here) and there is this big conspiracy behind it with people coaching her on how to do it".

Saludos,

Caro

I agree with you. While it appears in this case that tito could be right, we all know that such cases are a small fraction. And to generalize about the people from any country - for example women from Russia, Ukraine, Philippines, China, Viet Nam, or men from Africa or the middle east, is insulting. We've all heard the generalizations and stereotypes, and of course some of us have been personally insulted. Still, that shouldn't keep us from forming an opinion on a particular case, such as this one. We should also keep in mind here that we only got one side of the story here. While the OP presents a story that strongly suggets that his wife is an opportunist, it's also possible that the OP is a lousy or abusive husband, and his wife just needed to get out. Anything is possible.

[FaSa2008 0]

OK this got a lil out of hand and defeated the purpose

Tito was just giving a comment out of other experiences he have heard! Im sure some Russians got insulted but hey one deserves to have an opinion especially if that perosn has seen it happened many many many times!

Mox drop it!

Abandonded, talk to a lawyer and see what u can do ...

it sounds she had an agenda and its gonna attack u soon!

Good luck !

[LaL 418]

In the legal practice, it's not just HIS wife...but the story repeats itself over and over and over and over and over and over again...same scenario, and the person is immaterial. Same set-up, same circumstances, same country, same time frame, everything is the same. Don't need to know anybody, husband or wife, to warn of the scenario that he could be facing and, in my professional opinion, one he will likely face given the totality of the circumstances. Sorry. Wish it were different...! I'm NOT judging the person...I am judging the circumstances. You are the one making a judgment of my view and opinion given my background and experience of which you know very little. This is supposed to be a forum of frank discussions regarding a very difficult emotional situation for those who participate here. No sense treating it with kidd gloves...the situation needs to be exposed for what it is, however much it hurts, and I know it does hurt.

Tito, just because it has happened before does NOT mean that it will happen in the OP's case. Once more you are rushing head long into a topic and making rash and judgemental comments without anything to back it up in the OP's case.

Posts like the one where you claim his wife will say he kept her as a slave are downright scaremongering and out of place in this particular area of the forum. Additionally, this area of the forum is more of a support system for people in the most direst of predicaments. Judgement and harsh comments are not required or warranted here.

Actually, I hope this forum, one that I rallied for, and continue to spend the vast majority of my time and effort in is more than just a support system for people in dire predicaments. I hope it is a source of helpful information, and discussion, to include anecdotal. Tito might be painting with a wide brush in this discussion, and that is neither wise nor respectful to the OP, but if you look beyond the generalisations, his point of view is both viable and valuable. Let's not lose sight of the fact that tito, in this case, has valuable personal experience and insight to offer. We have to learn to be tolerant and sort through to extract what is factual from that which might be coloured with a little residual emotion and disappointment.

I definately agree with you here, although that can be a tall order. Couldn't it perhaps be more beneficial to forgo the generalizations as the bickering that occurs as a result? I do think one can share their experiences or knowledge without making sweeping generalizations about a culture or home country. As a result of making those statements, these posts do get more attention, and not necessarily in the best way (example : the bickering in this thread) let's not lose sight of that fact either.

I think this is a wonderful forum, and sincerely thank each one who participates in helping those wade through the hurt, anger, legal and immigration issues members could face.

[mox 298]

Mox drop it!

You're not the moderator of me.

I definately agree with you here, although that can be a tall order. Couldn't it perhaps be more beneficial to forgo the generalizations as the bickering that occurs as a result? I do think one can share their experiences or knowledge without making sweeping generalizations about a culture or home country. As a result of making those statements, these posts do get more attention, and not necessarily in the best way (example : the bickering in this thread) let's not lose sight of that fact either.

I think this is a wonderful forum, and sincerely thank each one who participates in helping those wade through the hurt, anger, legal and immigration issues members could face.

Speaking for myself, the stereotyping of the lady's country of origin is the least of my objections. I'd have piped up if she was from Canada, the UK, or anywhere else. It's the massive snake-river-canyon-leaping of logic that is the problem.

[StillThePrettiest 3]

in my opinion, the couple of things that tito had to say that were of potential worth or potential benefit got completely swamped in emotive language, subjective opinions, and similar... as many have said (thumbs up to mox): there's value in giving advice and options BASED ON THE SITUATION AS WE KNOW IT, and in as careful a manner as possible, but spiralling into scare-mongering, even if it's based on personal opinion or experience, is not helpful, and far too many of tito's posts come across as pushing his own personal agenda, not trying to address the situation

tito, you've said you're not bitter, and your situation hasn't affected you: I'm in no position to comment on the veracity of that, but I CAN say that that's not how you come across

if you really do have so much 'professional experience', then for Og's sake get a professional manner to accompany it - then what you have to say might be helpful

[Nanusia & Lukaszek 0]

I don't understand why everybody is up and attacking tito for his comments. He gave his views on how the OP should protect himself from possible situations that *could* come into play by his wife splitting. Generalizations as they may be about Russian women, they do happen, they happen so often that their are soo many stories of them.

I ride with 2 guys on the train each day for the past 7 yrs to work. Both found their Russian ladies to end up in the exact situation as the OP has described and tito. The Russian ladies are trained before they leave Russia on the process. They have people here locally that keep on with the schooling of what the process is and how to prepare for the split, and what to have taken care of before she can take off running. They choose their mates by location practically, due to other Russian ladies (and where they are) that will be able to help/coach them in the US on the next steps. This is a well thought out plan. It is the USCs who get fooled in the process because they have no idea what is comming.

The process of getting an SSN, a drivers license, car & credit card are standard practice before they leave. Then comes the filing for abuse to get the GC. Happened to people I know, so I'm speaking from their experiences. This forum is to help those in problems with advice. I belive that's what tito was doing, giving advice about the possible sitiations that arrise after the OPs wife took off with no form of contact. So attacks from others, who don't have experience on the topic aren't fair or knowledgable and shouldn't have a place here on VJ.

[tito 1]

Sorry - but that's the way advice would be delivered to a client. Straight up. I am completely dispassionate on the issue and am relating professional experience that I have seen dealing with close colleagues who have this very topic as their specialty. While it's great to want to give someone or some situation the benefit of the doubt, given the totality of the circumstances in simply what was said in the first post...no. This does not appear to be one of those times, and even the OP has said that!

Sorry - but as politically incorrect as it may be, and as a sad truth as it may be, the fact remains (fact...not fiction) that this set of circumstances and state of affairs is VERY common among many (not all!) immigrants from certain parts of the world. In other words, of the people who pull this sort of stunt, a significant majority are from a certain part of the world...or, in other words, statistics in a professional setting show that Russian women do this stuff all the time. How do you sugar coat that? But that's really NOT THE ISSUE! The issue is, under the circumstances, how can we in this forum HELP THE OP!?

The OP has to understand what happened and the reasonable likely reality given the statistics...and to PROTECT HIMSELF from extensive liability. The wife is who-knows-where doing who-knows-what after a significant investment on his part. She can go to a department store or a bank and open up credit cards...blow a bunch of money on clothing, whatever, and leave OP on the hook for that liability. She drives a car...gets in an accident...causes injury to someone else or to property...then OP is responsible. She gets hurt, gets sick, G-d forbid something happens to her, she goes to the hospital, OP is financially responsible as the spouse. WHO KNOWS what might happen!? These are very real consequences. The advice is sound. And yes...the reasonable likelihood with a woman from that part of the world with the history of what happened and the circumstances briefly described by OP is that, it was a set-up from the get go and that, to protect HERSELF, the wife is being counseled by many before her and/or attorneys whom she will hire to get a green card.

This is sound advice...like it or not...there's nothing unprofessional about that, or about the course of this thread and the way the likely circumstances were presented.

[ginger1981 0]

You don't know me, yet you call me a 'random idiot'. How nice...how quaint. They say that personal attacks are the sign of fear.

"Quaint" (ooh did you say it in a British accent like a Bond villain? Because that would be so cool!) would be if I called you a specific idiot. I called you a "random" idiot because it's a little more new-gen, yo. And yeah, I'm afraid alright. People like you make me very afraid because I know someone out there will actually take you seriously and quite possibly ruin their life by following your advice.

There's nothing to fear, Mox. Except, perhaps, the truth of what I'm saying is a very real and very highly probable outcome.

"truth" is an absolute, and has no "probability." The OP says his wife left and won't return his phone calls. You jumped to a HUGE effing conclusion based on just a few words and her nationality.

The poster is in a pretty bad way, and to give false hope by encouraging desperation doesn't do anybody any good. This exact situation is absolutely NOTORIOUS. It happens all the time. Not in every relationship, but this is the textbook variety. I sure hope I'm wrong!

Nobody is giving the poster false hope. But you're giving him false fear. As I said before, you're a fearmonger of the worst sort. Oh ####### I called you another name. You're going to take exception aren't you? I hate it when you take exception. Lifesaver?

There is a fundamental rule about holes: when you find yourself in one, the first thing you have to do if you want to get out of it is to stop digging.

Here's another fundamental rule about holes: if all that's coming out of yours is sh*t then it's best to plug it up.

Those are clues to the formulation of a really bad scenario.

Yes, a really bad scenario. Best we fill in the FREAKING HUGE GIGANTIC GAPS with fear, speculation, and more fear.

Just from my objective opinion (and as someone who worked many years ago at the Nebraska Service Center) I didn't take Tito's advice as scare tactics, but as great advice for a worst case scenario. I don't think the accusation was ever made all Russian brides are bad and will rob you and run away...only that in the cases of where abuse in order to receive a green card are claimed the majority are Russian.

In all due respect, I think you need to take a step back. If this happens to be the unfortunate situation happening to this poor bloke I think Tito gave excellent advice. If it isn't, well then it isn't applicable. I understand where you would be up in arms seeing you married someone from Russia, and I am happy for you and for those where it worked out. But on the same token I am glad someone gave sound advice to someone who is potentially being ripped off.

[Jeraly 4]

I don't understand why everybody is up and attacking tito for his comments. He gave his views on how the OP should protect himself from possible situations that *could* come into play by his wife splitting. Generalizations as they may be about Russian women, they do happen, they happen so often that their are soo many stories of them.

I ride with 2 guys on the train each day for the past 7 yrs to work. Both found their Russian ladies to end up in the exact situation as the OP has described and tito. The Russian ladies are trained before they leave Russia on the process. They have people here locally that keep on with the schooling of what the process is and how to prepare for the split, and what to have taken care of before she can take off running. They choose their mates by location practically, due to other Russian ladies (and where they are) that will be able to help/coach them in the US on the next steps. This is a well thought out plan. It is the USCs who get fooled in the process because they have no idea what is comming.

The process of getting an SSN, a drivers license, car & credit card are standard practice before they leave. Then comes the filing for abuse to get the GC. Happened to people I know, so I'm speaking from their experiences. This forum is to help those in problems with advice. I belive that's what tito was doing, giving advice about the possible sitiations that arrise after the OPs wife took off with no form of contact. So attacks from others, who don't have experience on the topic aren't fair or knowledgable and shouldn't have a place here on VJ.

Can I just say thank you for addressing the issue that I think tito has been trying to point out in his offensive/emotive/hashed up way? I think this post is informative and helpful without the opinionated blather that has been tarnishing some potentially valuable information in this thread

I can understand that this may be an issue in certain countries but as StP says - there are ways of putting things that are more helpful than getting people's backs up

[tito 1]

"big conspiracy behind it with people coaching her on how to do it"

There is. And there are. And as I said, there are even lawyers poised with the language already printed out for the forms, with supporting declarations, with psychologists ready to testify at the deportation hearing or I-130 proceedings about how traumatized was the spouse. If you don't think that's the case, then that's great. There is a certain bliss to ignoring the reality. But heed not only my advice, but that of others who have had such experiences, who have worked at the processing centers, other attorneys, whatever...anyone with any experience in the field will tell you the same thing, no matter the terms in which it is couched, no matter how soft the gloves, no matter how rosey the glasses. The "Russian Bride" story is no secret and, unfortunately, many a lovely, caring, genuine, well-intended potential spouses are subjected to guilt by association. The reputation is no accident, the ways and means utilized to achieve a particular result are nothing new, and the risks for the USC spouse are enormous.

I hate to say it, but these are facts. Jeraly, I hasten to say it, but YOUR post is an examle of the opinionated blather in this thread.... It contains judgments, officious commentary, derogatory references, when none are called for, with respect to very sound reasoning based on the reality of the situation that even the OP concedes. So, please, officious intermeddlers...back off. View the information as just that: INFORMATION. The OP stands to lose quite a bit here and needs, at the very least, to contemplate the situation in a light that will likely end up helping him the most.

Edited February 4, 2008 by tito

[Jeraly 4]

I just find it interesting that you feel you always have to have the last word. There really is no need to be so aggressive. I am not an aggressive person by nature and I just feel that what you are trying to say could be said in a more personable manner. It offers an opinion but no constructive advice and I think that is what this forum is about - offering advice to those that request it rather than a subjective point of view. Personally, and this is my opinion, I think that your attitude stinks and that your high-and-mighty, aggressive approach to posting is disgusting when there are real people's feelings, relationships and emotions at stake. This might be the internet. This might be a forum. This might not be my real name. But I, along with the majority of other users of this website, am a real person. You might do to remember that sometime.

[tito 1]

This was made into a personal issue by yourself and a few others who took it upon yourself to call me names and ridicule sound advice and professional opinion based on the facts as presented and as conceded by someone who is in a world of hurt because of the circumstances he found himself in, and there is a definite need to get a plan of action together on his part to protect himself...not to relish in some fantasy. How or why you view MY posts as aggressive is something you take responsibility for. You can make what I say or have said mean anything you want, even take it to mean what it says, and how it is intended. It's your choice...and one you obviously made. When the issues presented are called into question by such commentary, yes, I will take the time to respond in order to clarify.

Back to the issue at hand, this is a tough forum because stuff happens that isn't pleasant, and people are reeling...USC's and immigrants. But please don't lecture me on etiquette or personal relations. The advice is sound, the implications are real, and there's no way to sugar coat it. My posts are replete with advice...how best for the OP to protect himself given the circumstances, and information on the harsh but true reality that this stuff happens A LOT with Russian brides...so be careful. Again...anything more or beyond that, and it's what you're making it mean for yourself...or others who might interpret what is being said in any particular way. But name calling, condescending and snide comments and remarks, and things like that...no, it's not appropriate, so please do not engage in it any further.

Edited February 4, 2008 by tito

[Jeraly 4]

I just find it interesting that you feel you always have to have the last word...