Hillary: Those who want to deport illegals are "living in some other universe"

[Ban Hammer 13,360]

So what's it going to be Charles? Humanitarian treatment of people already here or closing the border off. U pick.

like i said earlier, spare me the b]emotional appeal bs[/b]. it really trivializes anything you have to say and if your argument is solely based on that, then you've lost.

Like before you're skating the issue. Question still stands. Where do you want to take the argument? Being human here or closing the border off? U pick.

my position has always been follow the law. maybe you didn't get the memo. keep frothing at the mouth though, i'm getting a good laugh out of it.

Have it your way. I think your writing is clear enough as day. The law is the law and is to be followed, also as I have clearly written time and time again. Apparently you didn't receive that memo that has been sent over and over.

Question still stands. Do we act humanely or not? Do we close the border or not? One has been addressed and receives no complaints. The other... however... leaves much to desire about your dedication to the human race. Its ok to say you don't give a rats rear end about people... just say it. Don't however, expect to be treated nicely when you extrude such sentiment, if you really do. I mean, you probably are actually a really nice, humanitarian person.

still trying to sell that emotional appeal bs? face it, i'm not buying. go pedal it somewhere else.

btw, it's nice to note that you are putting america's poor behind the illegals with your agenda.

####### Charles...

quote me on that and then you'll get some sympathy.

I choose to follow a humanitarian course of action to all that need assistance. Then again, you are a self-described Republican and that says a lot about how much you consider our nation's poor.

you go right ahead and worry about the poor in every country there is. that will keep you quite busy

[eric&gen 0]

Fok the illegals send them back home.

[rebeccajo 14]

So what's it going to be Charles? Humanitarian treatment of people already here or closing the border off. U pick.

like i said earlier, spare me the emotional appeal bs. it really trivializes anything you have to say and if your argument is solely based on that, then you've lost.

Like before you're skating the issue. Question still stands. Where do you want to take the argument? Being human here or closing the border off? U pick.

I can't speak for Charles but I can for myself. Close the border. As for being human what does that mean? Handing over all of our rights to people that do not have a right to them? I would give emergency care to someone that needs it but if your talking about free medical care to everyone regardless of status then the answer is no. Send them home and let their own country take care of them.

Gary - I hate to tell you, but you don't have a 'right' to health care in this country. We don't have socialized medicine, remember?

[HAL 9000 96]

So what's it going to be Charles? Humanitarian treatment of people already here or closing the border off. U pick.

like i said earlier, spare me the b]emotional appeal bs[/b]. it really trivializes anything you have to say and if your argument is solely based on that, then you've lost.

Like before you're skating the issue. Question still stands. Where do you want to take the argument? Being human here or closing the border off? U pick.

my position has always been follow the law. maybe you didn't get the memo. keep frothing at the mouth though, i'm getting a good laugh out of it.

Have it your way. I think your writing is clear enough as day. The law is the law and is to be followed, also as I have clearly written time and time again. Apparently you didn't receive that memo that has been sent over and over.

Question still stands. Do we act humanely or not? Do we close the border or not? One has been addressed and receives no complaints. The other... however... leaves much to desire about your dedication to the human race. Its ok to say you don't give a rats rear end about people... just say it. Don't however, expect to be treated nicely when you extrude such sentiment, if you really do. I mean, you probably are actually a really nice, humanitarian person.

still trying to sell that emotional appeal bs? face it, i'm not buying. go pedal it somewhere else.

btw, it's nice to note that you are putting america's poor behind the illegals with your agenda.

####### Charles...

quote me on that and then you'll get some sympathy.

I choose to follow a humanitarian course of action to all that need assistance. Then again, you are a self-described Republican and that says a lot about how much you consider our nation's poor.

you go right ahead and worry about the poor in every country there is. that will keep you quite busy

What other countries? Focus, focus Charles... its the USA and those that send us their poor illegally thanks to the policies we perpetuate.

Focus, focus...

[Ban Hammer 13,360]

So what's it going to be Charles? Humanitarian treatment of people already here or closing the border off. U pick.

like i said earlier, spare me the b]emotional appeal bs[/b]. it really trivializes anything you have to say and if your argument is solely based on that, then you've lost.

Like before you're skating the issue. Question still stands. Where do you want to take the argument? Being human here or closing the border off? U pick.

my position has always been follow the law. maybe you didn't get the memo. keep frothing at the mouth though, i'm getting a good laugh out of it.

Have it your way. I think your writing is clear enough as day. The law is the law and is to be followed, also as I have clearly written time and time again. Apparently you didn't receive that memo that has been sent over and over.

Question still stands. Do we act humanely or not? Do we close the border or not? One has been addressed and receives no complaints. The other... however... leaves much to desire about your dedication to the human race. Its ok to say you don't give a rats rear end about people... just say it. Don't however, expect to be treated nicely when you extrude such sentiment, if you really do. I mean, you probably are actually a really nice, humanitarian person.

still trying to sell that emotional appeal bs? face it, i'm not buying. go pedal it somewhere else.

btw, it's nice to note that you are putting america's poor behind the illegals with your agenda.

####### Charles...

quote me on that and then you'll get some sympathy.

I choose to follow a humanitarian course of action to all that need assistance. Then again, you are a self-described Republican and that says a lot about how much you consider our nation's poor.

you go right ahead and worry about the poor in every country there is. that will keep you quite busy

What other countries? Focus, focus Charles... its the USA and those that send us their poor illegally thanks to the policies we perpetuate.

Focus, focus...

keep foaming at the mouth about it while trying to push your globalization and we are the world mantra on everyone. i'm still not buying what you are selling.

[kaydee457 13]

thanks, even some people on here can't tell the difference between a discussion about legal immigration and illegal immigration.

And some people can't seem to understand that human beings deserve basic respect and attention when in need. Independent of migratory status. Maybe that's why you're not in health care.

oh please, spare me the emotional appeal filed under humanitarian reasons. every country has the right to determine who gets in and who does not. and you're right, i'm not in health care. want to take another attempt at a cheap shot?

Don't get so touchy. Were we not talking about clogged ER rooms for those illegals that are already here? That, at least is what I refer to when I mention basic human respect. Apparently its still not enough for you to beckon yourself to the cause of humanity yet. Why jump the logical gun this time?

As for the rest, of course. We have the right to control our borders.

We certainly are discussing "clogged ER's" as these illegals aren't vacationers here on a tourist visa but rather squatters that make use of social services that wouldn't be afforded them if they obeyed our immigration laws.

Yes, it's humane, and in fact the law to treat illegals, but many illegals, having no health insurance make use of the emergency room for basic everyday care.

This point seems lost on you, or is just simply something you again choose to ignore. I cited one story a few posts back that's describing some hospitals in Dalls which by necessity have begun to deny that kind of service to illegals as a matter of fiscal survivabilty.

I will once again post that article for your perusal:

Dallas hospital cares for illegal immigrants

But it's U.S. taxpayers who are footing the multi-million-dollar bill

source

The cost of medical care

August 3:

DALLAS - Parkland Memorial Hospital — the same iconic institution where doctors tried to save John F. Kennedy in 1963 — is today where tens of thousands of illegal immigrants receive taxpayer subsidized care.

“Whether they come from this country or somewhere else, doesn’t matter how I treat them,” says Richard Benson, a doctor at Parkland Hospital.

The most common patients here are expectant mothers. Each year about 16,000 babies are born at Parkland. The hospital estimates about 70 percent of them are delivered by undocumented mothers.

Among the new mothers is a woman who didn't want to be identified — an illegal immigrant from Mexico. Her medical bills will run more than $6,000.

But with no insurance, Parkland — a public hospital — is forced to cover the cost.

“We have to figure out how to continue to deal with this because it’s very difficult to fund it,” says Parkland President Dr. Ron Anderson.

Anderson says the cost of treating undocumented immigrants — millions of dollars each year — is unsustainable.

Still, he says, his hospital will never turn away patients.

“You are going to make some awful mistakes when you decide that one person is worthy and one person isn’t worthy,” Anderson says.

But 30 miles away, a Fort Worth public hospital is making those decisions, requiring patients to prove they're here legally before picking up the tab for non-emergency treatment.

“In some cases, you can’t afford 100 percent subsidized care to everyone that walks in here,” Robert Earley with John Peter Smith Hospital says.

The decision has drawn fire from Hispanic rights groups and people like Dominga Valderama, with her newborn baby at Parkland. She's a U.S. citizen, but has undocumented relatives.

"Can you put a price on someone’s health, put a price on a baby’s life?” says Valderama. “Everyone’s entitled to basic rights.”

But who should pay?

That’s a question one of the nation's top public hospitals is struggling to answer.

source

Well, frankly not everyone is entitled to basic rights but rather to emergency care. Having a baby is not an emergency!

Give us an alternative, then.

I already know of one ER that has the criteria for admitting patients. Its called triage. I suspect that most hospitals have the ability to do the same and perhaps if it is something that is critically important then its possible we could be on to something... while satisfying both the anti-illegal crowd and the pro-humanitarian crowd.

Its called legislation.

Alternatives?

1) Close the border

2) those that are here illegallly- their status should remain in limbo

3) close off the employment prospects by legislating laws that severly punish the employers

Items 2 and 3 will force most illegals to leave of their volition.

4) Adopt migrant "temporary workers" visa's with short term residency, and no accompanying family members

5) Limit numbers of "temporary workers" to what the market will support (at this time there are far more illegals than there are jobs for them, hence they congregate, sometimes 100 or more at a time, on street corners hoping for a single day of work. As evidenced by the number still there hours later there clearly are too many of them and not enough jobs.

6) Punish overstays and violations severly but reward those that work within the system with incentives for future residency if they so desire.

I'm sure there's more but the bottom line is that we should not reward those that have broken the law with legal residency. Been there and done that!!

[rebeccajo 14]

Hey Troll....I see you.

Just wondering how that 'white guilt' is working for you today.

[HAL 9000 96]

So what's it going to be Charles? Humanitarian treatment of people already here or closing the border off. U pick.

like i said earlier, spare me the b]emotional appeal bs[/b]. it really trivializes anything you have to say and if your argument is solely based on that, then you've lost.

Like before you're skating the issue. Question still stands. Where do you want to take the argument? Being human here or closing the border off? U pick.

my position has always been follow the law. maybe you didn't get the memo. keep frothing at the mouth though, i'm getting a good laugh out of it.

Have it your way. I think your writing is clear enough as day. The law is the law and is to be followed, also as I have clearly written time and time again. Apparently you didn't receive that memo that has been sent over and over.

Question still stands. Do we act humanely or not? Do we close the border or not? One has been addressed and receives no complaints. The other... however... leaves much to desire about your dedication to the human race. Its ok to say you don't give a rats rear end about people... just say it. Don't however, expect to be treated nicely when you extrude such sentiment, if you really do. I mean, you probably are actually a really nice, humanitarian person.

still trying to sell that emotional appeal bs? face it, i'm not buying. go pedal it somewhere else.

btw, it's nice to note that you are putting america's poor behind the illegals with your agenda.

####### Charles...

quote me on that and then you'll get some sympathy.

I choose to follow a humanitarian course of action to all that need assistance. Then again, you are a self-described Republican and that says a lot about how much you consider our nation's poor.

you go right ahead and worry about the poor in every country there is. that will keep you quite busy

What other countries? Focus, focus Charles... its the USA and those that send us their poor illegally thanks to the policies we perpetuate.

Focus, focus...

keep foaming at the mouth about it while trying to push your globalization and we are the world mantra on everyone. i'm still not buying what you are selling.

Then don't visit our store since you're not even looking at the merchandise.

[Ban Hammer 13,360]

Then don't visit our store since you're not even looking at the merchandise.

so you are saying i shouldn't be in this thread?

[Nagishkaw 510]

Then don't visit our store since you're not even looking at the merchandise.

so you are saying i shouldn't be in this thread?

Now it is no longer a Family Based Immigration web site, it's a store....

No shirt, no shoes, no service....looks like you gotta go , Charles.

[GaryC 7]

So what's it going to be Charles? Humanitarian treatment of people already here or closing the border off. U pick.

like i said earlier, spare me the emotional appeal bs. it really trivializes anything you have to say and if your argument is solely based on that, then you've lost.

Like before you're skating the issue. Question still stands. Where do you want to take the argument? Being human here or closing the border off? U pick.

I can't speak for Charles but I can for myself. Close the border. As for being human what does that mean? Handing over all of our rights to people that do not have a right to them? I would give emergency care to someone that needs it but if your talking about free medical care to everyone regardless of status then the answer is no. Send them home and let their own country take care of them.

Gary - I hate to tell you, but you don't have a 'right' to health care in this country. We don't have socialized medicine, remember?

I was speaking of rights in general, sorry for the wandering thoughts. And thank God we don't have socialized medicine.

[HAL 9000 96]

Good... something to discuss (yet apart from the whole clogged ER thing... I agree we can divest ourselves from that issue for obvious lack of observers out there):

Alternatives?

1) Close the border

2) those that are here illegallly- their status should remain in limbo

3) close off the employment prospects by legislating laws that severly punish the employers

Items 2 and 3 will force most illegals to leave of their volition.

4) Adopt migrant "temporary workers" visa's with short term residency, and no accompanying family members

5) Limit numbers of "temporary workers" to what the market will support (at this time there are far more illegals than there are jobs for them, hence they congregate, sometimes 100 or more at a time, on street corners hoping for a single day of work. As evidenced by the number still there hours later there clearly are too many of them and not enough jobs.

6) Punish overstays and violations severly but reward those that work within the system with incentives for future residency if they so desire.

I'm sure there's more but the bottom line is that we should not reward those that have broken the law with legal residency. Been there and done that!!

1) People can go under, above, and to the sides of the border. This is a metaphor as well.

2) OK. No appeasement of illegals. This is logical.

3) And employers will move where they can do business more profitably if current business practices are allowed to continue. Incentives need to accompany the punishments in order to maintain target business in their areas. Otherwise, out of their own volition as well, companies will fly south and stay south if possible.

4) Maybe doable for temporary workers. I would add sweetening the deal by investing a small amount of funds in improving their temporary access by educating them so they use temporary programs less and qualify for sweeter visas later, or, even better, improve their situation at home.

5) This is logical.

6) Permanent barring should be enough. If we want to instill a value-based system of laws, we need to ensure we do so from the get-go as long as the visa violations are judged to be intentional, and there is not enough oversight beyond one, perhaps two examiners and an immigration judge at the current procedural structure.

All of these alternatives are logical. But they will not work by doing things solely on our end of the business deal. We need to address the issues that create illegal immigration in the first place in order to make it a non-issue.

[rebeccajo 14]

Then don't visit our store since you're not even looking at the merchandise.

so you are saying i shouldn't be in this thread?

Charles, Charles -

You gotta admit, you take a pretty hardline stance on this issue. I think the analogy is - do you ever consider other points of view? Do you walk into the store at all and look around?

Why oh why does this issue have to be black or white? My way or the high way?

There's BOATLOADS of reasons the politicians haven't settled this issue before now - not the least of which is the fact that we are about to elect a new president. The pols realize there are constituents who want all the illegals put on the first bus back home. But that isn't going to happen!

[HAL 9000 96]

Then don't visit our store since you're not even looking at the merchandise.

so you are saying i shouldn't be in this thread?

I love talking with you Charles... specially when its about the actual topic in the thread and by not skating the issue in circles. Unfortunately you're not interested.

Then don't visit our store since you're not even looking at the merchandise.

so you are saying i shouldn't be in this thread?

Now it is no longer a Family Based Immigration web site, it's a store....

No shirt, no shoes, no service....looks like you gotta go , Charles.

LOL... don't go Charles! buy something! Ask a question! Get to know the merchandise...

[natty bumppo 297]

Then don't visit our store since you're not even looking at the merchandise.

so you are saying i shouldn't be in this thread?

Since you say you're a local, I'll illustrate some of the area hospitals I've picked human tissues from for my work:

He's in medicine ... must be talking about the harvesting of human parts to the highest bidder ....

Could it be that illegals are a source of supply?