Hillary: Those who want to deport illegals are "living in some other universe"

[HAL 9000 96]

The most rational compassion toward illegals is to force them to make the change they need in their own countries, not to import their problems for us to deal with. If life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is a natural right, it transcends borders, and should be demanded of foreign governments, not just of ours. Make them be the change they want to see in their own countries, not ours, unless they come legally. That is the most compassionate thing to do for the most equitable result.

It's a bit naive to be blaming the illegals for leaving their own countries to seek better conditions when it is the US govt and financial infrastructure which facilitate illegal's successfully obtaining better conditions. No one here ever seems to slam the companies employing them or the govt for not enforcing employment laws. Who can blame illegal aliens for seeking a better life or taking advantage of a system which sustains them?

Time will tell with the states that are taking the next, legal step to holding companies accountable for verification of citizenship status.

In my opinion, profitability will just dictate that companies seek greener pastures. Then they'll just adjust their tactics to make a buck. Will it reduce some illegal immigration? Sure. That's logical.

Now, will it be naive to be realistic? People don't leave a country thinking its allowable to survive elsewhere. People tend to take drastic measures based on drastic images of a life that can be better lived elsewhere. That's why people will continue to move here illegally as long as we allow others to continue exploitation for profit in someone elses's backyard.

[bakofoil 27]

Time will tell with the states that are taking the next, legal step to holding companies accountable for verification of citizenship status.

In my opinion, profitability will just dictate that companies seek greener pastures. Then they'll just adjust their tactics to make a buck. Will it reduce some illegal immigration? Sure. That's logical.

Now, will it be naive to be realistic? People don't leave a country thinking its allowable to survive elsewhere. People tend to take drastic measures based on drastic images of a life that can be better lived elsewhere. That's why people will continue to move here illegally as long as we allow others to continue exploitation for profit in someone elses's backyard.

Precisely. I don't think it's at all productive to be casting all the blame on people who simply had a dream of a better life for themselves. Isn't that exactly what the American Dream is all about? Sure, it would be preferable for them to use legal routes for immigration and pay taxes etc. I am sure they would prefer to live their lives without worrying about illegal status. This isn't about being pro-illegal it's about being realistic about how much corporate America secretly thrives on illegal immigration.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Secretly?

It's not a secret.

[natty bumppo 297]

Now, to stay on topic (if possible)... we should be referring to the reasons why these folks come here to get a piece of the pie. Too bad they can't just get it at home. Maybe we are too busy making pies for ourselves to keep in their ovens and not sharing.

It's not called sharing, it's TAKING. Huge difference.

True... we take at their expense. Is that what you mean? So they come here and take at ours. And that shows there is NO difference. So, I'll completely throw my support with the anti-illegal crowd as it currently stands IF, and ONLY if, we throw our support together to stop our abuse of foreigners in their countries.

We take, they take, everyone is happy and equal.

Or we could do things more civilized... we don't take, we share. Then when they come here [legally by consequence], they also share.

What *are* you talking about? Since when is the USA responsible for the world's problems?

not to label... but dude... you're talking LIKE a Republican now... (and no offense to the Republicans!!)

When I actually state we are responsible for the world's problems, I'll let you know.

And yes, only if you actually read what I've written thread after thread about unfair corporate (US companies) practices that we allow and even promote in countries that feed our nation with illegal immigration, then maybe, and *maybe* you'll actually understand what it is I'm talking about...

Looks like you just did ...

If there's something you'd like to add then go ahead. I think the point of the discussion is of the corporate abuse abroad leading to illegal immigration logic. Maybe you care to disagree of are you here to post the usual snideness?

typical condescending attitude and remarks ... to use you own words from another thread ... have problems with vocabulary (or grammar) ?

eta: actually being attacked for pointing out a waffle post ... well speaks volumes ...

[bakofoil 27]

Secretly?

It's not a secret.

Seems to be news to some.

[Sofargone 2]

Well VirtualWife I guess I owe you an apology from the comments I posted in post #159. After reading the pages of this thread after your original rant I can see that I took what you were saying out of context.

No excuses and my sincerest apologies.

Sofargone

[HAL 9000 96]

Secretly?

It's not a secret.

Seems to be news to some.

Unfortunately. And since it is "easier" to just attack the symptom of the problem instead of the root of the problem itself, we'll continue to have the resurgence of the problem.

[Peikko 1,575]

"Invasion of the Brown People"

[Sofiyya 1,687]

"Invasion of the Brown People"

I'm their leader.

Thanks, Sofargone. I don't rant, however . . .

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I have never seen crowds of day labourers. Does not seeing these things make me niave? I guess if that's so, then I am.

Same crowds that are clogging up ERs...

Somehow most of us with a bit of common sense are not seeing these crowds.

Try to go through the day with your eyes open. It helps tremendously.

Dunno, like I told our sailor friend, the adult ER is right in front of my window (the building across the street) and the kids' ER is kitty corner around my building at work. No cloggin from ilegales if you know what I mean

So the hospitals just make this shite up. And public heath facilities crumble under the financial burden of treating the undocumented just because they lack common sense. The day laborers at the Home Depot and Lowe's are simply the figment of the imagination of those that see and use them. Is that the essence of what you're saying? I'd say it's time for you to wake up.

Edited February 3, 2008 by Mr. Big Dog

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

"Invasion of the Brown People"

[PlatyPius 5]

I have never seen crowds of day labourers. Does not seeing these things make me niave? I guess if that's so, then I am.

Same crowds that are clogging up ERs...

Somehow most of us with a bit of common sense are not seeing these crowds.

Try to go through the day with your eyes open. It helps tremendously.

Dunno, like I told our sailor friend, the adult ER is right in front of my window (the building across the street) and the kids' ER is kitty corner around my building at work. No cloggin from ilegales if you know what I mean

So the hospitals just make this shite up. And public heath facilities crumble under the financial burden of treating the undocumented just because they lack common sense. The day laborers at the Home Depot and Lowe's are simply the figment of the imagination of those that see and use them. Is that the essence of what you're saying? I'd say it's time for you to wake up.

It's obviously a conspiracy by racist whites who want to "send all of them meskins HOME!". Those comments could not possibly have been rooted in fact...

[HAL 9000 96]

I have never seen crowds of day labourers. Does not seeing these things make me niave? I guess if that's so, then I am.

Same crowds that are clogging up ERs...

Somehow most of us with a bit of common sense are not seeing these crowds.

Try to go through the day with your eyes open. It helps tremendously.

Dunno, like I told our sailor friend, the adult ER is right in front of my window (the building across the street) and the kids' ER is kitty corner around my building at work. No cloggin from ilegales if you know what I mean

So the hospitals just make this shite up. And public heath facilities crumble under the financial burden of treating the undocumented just because they lack common sense. The day laborers at the Home Depot and Lowe's are simply the figment of the imagination of those that see and use them. Is that the essence of what you're saying? I'd say it's time for you to wake up.

Lol...

Blame me for looking at the ER right across the street. Or worse, walking around the hospital breezeway and actually seeing the waiting room on my way to the door.

Or better yet, just forgo humanity and don't treat people? Last week a woman had to give birth right on the street outside John Stroger Hospital (Cook County, public) and she wasn't even illegal according to what I heard- just poor.

Funny you bring up Home Depot. I'll be driving by one in a bit and maybe I can ask the management office to show me the immigration status of their day labor force. Or I can just yell "La Migra"... Then again... they can choose to obey the law themselves. Or is there something we, as voters, can do... like holding our elected officials to actually be honorable... at home and abroad? Then everyone would be happy and we wouldn't have 20 illegals threads a day here in OT. Until then we'll continue having the same debate over and over.

Edited February 3, 2008 by maviwaro

[kaydee457 13]

The burden of illegal immigrants on tax payers, such as it is is a mere drop in the ocean compared with other things the government does with tax dollars, many of which I might opt out of if there was such a choice. However, there isn't so I don't get all bent out of shape because my taxes goes to those things as well as the things I might be more in favour of.

I think you have also misread what I said ever so slightly. I didn't say "I don't care about taxes". I said "I don't get all fired up about paying taxes". It has to be done in order to create a society.

Please supply some sources for this very wrong information...Firstly, local government pays for education, and it is 80~85% of ones property tax bill...

It's not "a drop" compared to other costs. It's the most significant cost to the homeowner, hands down...

Other social costs added to the taxpayers burden is simply not your privilege to summarily dismiss as frivolous given that you don't represent the majority of American and their view on this issue. American overwhelmingly want this issue resolved, and the consensus is not to "reward" the "undocumented" and illegal residents.

One single dollar spent on an "undocumented" resident is one dollar too much. We are not a welfare state for the world. The outlays of monies for the entitlements, to people(s) that, having not for the egregious act of defiantly breaking our laws, some after multiple deportations, and having taking advantage of our humanity, absolutely do not deserve it as they don't belong here and frankly aren't a burden that we. as Americans want, or need, to take on.

Frankly, if you'd like to pay more taxes then as President Bush just recently mused, "the treasury takes both cash and checks and they'll be happy to take your money"........

Please send some cash in.....

[Peikko 1,575]

Aren't all the poor people illegal? About time they were, damnit!