Hillary: Those who want to deport illegals are "living in some other universe"

[no name 1]

Now, to stay on topic (if possible)... we should be referring to the reasons why these folks come here to get a piece of the pie. Too bad they can't just get it at home. Maybe we are too busy making pies for ourselves to keep in their ovens and not sharing.

It's not called sharing, it's TAKING. Huge difference.

[HAL 9000 96]

All you have to do is read the xenophobia that abound here based on the actual, real numbers. I think maybe, for VJ purposes, we should just have a poll for people to anonymously express what they really think of illegals based on race, law, and money.

Also, we need to weed out those using race-laced language. And white guilt terminology is race-based.

Much of the terminology around illegal immigration is race-based, and white guilt is as much of a component of the debate as is racism. Both exist as elements of the conflict; how we assess who suffers from one or the other is the challenge.

Change that we oppose indirectly (for us) and directly (for them) in their countries because it is contradictory to our profits and interests. Lets get on the same page here.

We demand transparency and democracy from foreign governments only when it appeases us. That is part of the fundamental problem.

“We” have the power to change that dynamic. Don’t abdicate your responsibility to do so by transferring your priorities to enabling illegality.

I am agnostic. I am white. I don't care if you are purple.

This simple fact remains - if you have to use brown/white as the flame-bait fire in a post to make your point, you diminish any credibility you may have in trying to reprimand those you believe use the race card against those who argue against illegal entry and amnesty.

Maybe you aren't really racist. Narrow minded, egotistical, and entitled because you have legal status, yes. But not

racist.

Enjoy your day.

I diminished my credibility to you simply by disagreeing with you, and I did that long ago. The effect was reciprocal.

Good day!

Huh?

Where is that supporting illegality?

[Peikko 1,575]

Easily offended? My offence is my weapon? that's just histerical. You will not slime out from under your offensive posts using that tactic Ms Wifey.

[no name 1]

Easily offended? My offence is my weapon? that's just histerical. You will not slime out from under your offensive posts using that tactic Ms Wifey.

Name-calling is your MO, why stop now?

[HAL 9000 96]

Also, we need to weed out those using race-laced language. And white guilt terminology is race-based.

It may be race-based, but it isn't racist.

What you are proposing is that no one can mention race for any reason. I can't say that I'm white. I can't mention that Obama is black. Wouldn't want to offend anyone! Whatever.

"White Guilt" is a real and documented condition. It exists. Get over it. Bringing it up is not "racist".

You know it won't work to not allow racial language here. It would take a big chunk out of our community since Earth is not uniracial and VJ involves what it involves.

What I find amusing with this "white guilt" is its use to try to discredit real and possible solutions to problems we CURRENTLY derive plenty of economic benefit from. That is something quite easy to see yet also easy to scapegoat as a joke.

[HAL 9000 96]

Now, to stay on topic (if possible)... we should be referring to the reasons why these folks come here to get a piece of the pie. Too bad they can't just get it at home. Maybe we are too busy making pies for ourselves to keep in their ovens and not sharing.

It's not called sharing, it's TAKING. Huge difference.

True... we take at their expense. Is that what you mean? So they come here and take at ours. And that shows there is NO difference. So, I'll completely throw my support with the anti-illegal crowd as it currently stands IF, and ONLY if, we throw our support together to stop our abuse of foreigners in their countries.

We take, they take, everyone is happy and equal.

Or we could do things more civilized... we don't take, we share. Then when they come here [legally by consequence], they also share.

[no name 1]

Now, to stay on topic (if possible)... we should be referring to the reasons why these folks come here to get a piece of the pie. Too bad they can't just get it at home. Maybe we are too busy making pies for ourselves to keep in their ovens and not sharing.

It's not called sharing, it's TAKING. Huge difference.

True... we take at their expense. Is that what you mean? So they come here and take at ours. And that shows there is NO difference. So, I'll completely throw my support with the anti-illegal crowd as it currently stands IF, and ONLY if, we throw our support together to stop our abuse of foreigners in their countries.

We take, they take, everyone is happy and equal.

Or we could do things more civilized... we don't take, we share. Then when they come here [legally by consequence], they also share.

What *are* you talking about? Since when is the USA responsible for the world's problems?

[Peikko 1,575]

Hi, friendly white people! I'm so happy to see so many of you here making a case for me! I'm brown, I steal, cheat, lie, trespass, exploit your tax money for educational opportunites, health care, and, social services to have a better life. I'm so happy that you feel sorry for me and reward me for my wrongdoing because you can't possibly deport me. I just wanna work and send money out of the country. If you make me legal, I can get a better job and not be paid so little, and my children can also take college slots from your children, and compete with them for the good jobs still left after outsourcing.

Please, white people . . . I'm brown and exotic foreigner. You can marry me and help me, or vote for illegal lovers to run the country. You know the plight of all the world's brown people is the burden of American white people who are historically responsible for all the problems in the world, so none of my crimes are my fault - they are not even crimes coz no illegal is a criminal for stealing, cheating, lying, and trespassing, right? I am more deserving of your sympathy than poor American blacks (you are tired of their problems anyway). Inform your representatives that you want me to stay and have a path to citizenship. Vote in the liberals!

Explain to me how this post applies to all illegal immigrants regardless of race? That is my current contribution to this thread. If this isn't a spade, what is it?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Also, we need to weed out those using race-laced language. And white guilt terminology is race-based.

It may be race-based, but it isn't racist.

What you are proposing is that no one can mention race for any reason. I can't say that I'm white. I can't mention that Obama is black. Wouldn't want to offend anyone! Whatever.

"White Guilt" is a real and documented condition. It exists. Get over it. Bringing it up is not "racist".

You know it won't work to not allow racial language here. It would take a big chunk out of our community since Earth is not uniracial and VJ involves what it involves.

What I find amusing with this "white guilt" is its use to try to discredit real and possible solutions to problems we CURRENTLY derive plenty of economic benefit from. That is something quite easy to see yet also easy to scapegoat as a joke.

I did not simply throw the concept of white guilt into the debate without prefacign it in contrast to other motives. Introduced my reference to white guilt by pointing out that what illegals are doing by coming here, taking advantage of the liberal system, and demanding more is in their self-interest, and that the opposition of poor blacks to being disadvantaged by their presense is also self-interest.

I said that their self-interest and self-preservation is natural and normal. However, working against one's self-interest and self-preservation by excusing lawbreaking and enabling the ability to exploit the system is not normal and natural, therefore there is another force at work. IMO, that force is white guilt. To deny white guilt and to maintain a lack of understanding of how it factors into the dynamic that makes one lower their need to confront the social consequences of illegal immigration is not in our best interest. Confronting it is a legitimate part of the solution.

[HAL 9000 96]

Now, to stay on topic (if possible)... we should be referring to the reasons why these folks come here to get a piece of the pie. Too bad they can't just get it at home. Maybe we are too busy making pies for ourselves to keep in their ovens and not sharing.

It's not called sharing, it's TAKING. Huge difference.

True... we take at their expense. Is that what you mean? So they come here and take at ours. And that shows there is NO difference. So, I'll completely throw my support with the anti-illegal crowd as it currently stands IF, and ONLY if, we throw our support together to stop our abuse of foreigners in their countries.

We take, they take, everyone is happy and equal.

Or we could do things more civilized... we don't take, we share. Then when they come here [legally by consequence], they also share.

What *are* you talking about? Since when is the USA responsible for the world's problems?

not to label... but dude... you're talking LIKE a Republican now... (and no offense to the Republicans!!)

When I actually state we are responsible for the world's problems, I'll let you know.

And yes, only if you actually read what I've written thread after thread about unfair corporate (US companies) practices that we allow and even promote in countries that feed our nation with illegal immigration, then maybe, and *maybe* you'll actually understand what it is I'm talking about...

[kaydee457 13]

As for the old 'my tax dollars' argument. That is just so lame. If you choose to live in society you will have your taxes spent for you by the goverment. Some on things you approve of, some on things you don't no matter which party is in office. Tax is a necessary evil if you view it that way. Personally, I don't get all fired up about taxes. They are what they are.

Really? Do you own a home? I do, in fact I own two. In my area for every homeowner paying school taxes (via property taxes) there are 3 "undocumented" children enrolled in school.

That's the burden placed on us by the "hard working", "leave them alone as they don't hurt anyone"<sarcasm>, "undocumented" illegal alien immigrants...

Please send me some of your money if you don't care about taxes so I can apply it to supporting a few "undocumented" immigrants......

Oh, and this time it really IS Super Bowl time.......

Edited February 3, 2008 by kaydee457

[no name 1]

Now, to stay on topic (if possible)... we should be referring to the reasons why these folks come here to get a piece of the pie. Too bad they can't just get it at home. Maybe we are too busy making pies for ourselves to keep in their ovens and not sharing.

It's not called sharing, it's TAKING. Huge difference.

True... we take at their expense. Is that what you mean? So they come here and take at ours. And that shows there is NO difference. So, I'll completely throw my support with the anti-illegal crowd as it currently stands IF, and ONLY if, we throw our support together to stop our abuse of foreigners in their countries.

We take, they take, everyone is happy and equal.

Or we could do things more civilized... we don't take, we share. Then when they come here [legally by consequence], they also share.

What *are* you talking about? Since when is the USA responsible for the world's problems?

not to label... but dude... you're talking LIKE a Republican now... (and no offense to the Republicans!!)

When I actually state we are responsible for the world's problems, I'll let you know.

And yes, only if you actually read what I've written thread after thread about unfair corporate (US companies) practices that we allow and even promote in countries that feed our nation with illegal immigration, then maybe, and *maybe* you'll actually understand what it is I'm talking about...

First off, I am not a 'dude'.

Resulting to insults to make you a 'bigger' person. How clever of you. I will happily discuss things when you stop being a condescending 'dude'.

Edited February 3, 2008 by devilette

[HAL 9000 96]

Also, we need to weed out those using race-laced language. And white guilt terminology is race-based.

It may be race-based, but it isn't racist.

What you are proposing is that no one can mention race for any reason. I can't say that I'm white. I can't mention that Obama is black. Wouldn't want to offend anyone! Whatever.

"White Guilt" is a real and documented condition. It exists. Get over it. Bringing it up is not "racist".

You know it won't work to not allow racial language here. It would take a big chunk out of our community since Earth is not uniracial and VJ involves what it involves.

What I find amusing with this "white guilt" is its use to try to discredit real and possible solutions to problems we CURRENTLY derive plenty of economic benefit from. That is something quite easy to see yet also easy to scapegoat as a joke.

I did not simply throw the concept of white guilt into the debate without prefacign it in contrast to other motives. Introduced my reference to white guilt by pointing out that what illegals are doing by coming here, taking advantage of the liberal system, and demanding more is in their self-interest, and that the opposition of poor blacks to being disadvantaged by their presense is also self-interest.

I said that their self-interest and self-preservation is natural and normal. However, working against one's self-interest and self-preservation by excusing lawbreaking and enabling the ability to exploit the system is not normal and natural, therefore there is another force at work. IMO, that force is white guilt. To deny white guilt and to maintain a lack of understanding of how it factors into the dynamic that makes one lower their need to confront the social consequences of illegal immigration is not in our best interest. Confronting it is a legitimate part of the solution.

Yeah... such a liberal system that it allows so much poverty to take place. Blacks and anyone else as victims, and they are not illegals. Why focus on such a small percentage of the drain when the disparity in wealth distribution is so crass even in this country?

Self-interest is self-serving and is universal. It applies equally, but not fairly, to those doing the taking abroad but condeming the taking at home by those on the receiving end of the short end of the stick.

See? Isn't it easier just to stop messing with others overseas?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Now, to stay on topic (if possible)... we should be referring to the reasons why these folks come here to get a piece of the pie. Too bad they can't just get it at home. Maybe we are too busy making pies for ourselves to keep in their ovens and not sharing.

It's not called sharing, it's TAKING. Huge difference.

True... we take at their expense. Is that what you mean? So they come here and take at ours. And that shows there is NO difference. So, I'll completely throw my support with the anti-illegal crowd as it currently stands IF, and ONLY if, we throw our support together to stop our abuse of foreigners in their countries.

We take, they take, everyone is happy and equal.

Or we could do things more civilized... we don't take, we share. Then when they come here [legally by consequence], they also share.

The only lasting benefit is to those who grow rich by exploiting cheap labor and the greed of consumers. I'm not a taker there, and I am not willing to give any more for the benefit of those who exploit me.

Hi, friendly white people! I'm so happy to see so many of you here making a case for me! I'm brown, I steal, cheat, lie, trespass, exploit your tax money for educational opportunites, health care, and, social services to have a better life. I'm so happy that you feel sorry for me and reward me for my wrongdoing because you can't possibly deport me. I just wanna work and send money out of the country. If you make me legal, I can get a better job and not be paid so little, and my children can also take college slots from your children, and compete with them for the good jobs still left after outsourcing.

Please, white people . . . I'm brown and exotic foreigner. You can marry me and help me, or vote for illegal lovers to run the country. You know the plight of all the world's brown people is the burden of American white people who are historically responsible for all the problems in the world, so none of my crimes are my fault - they are not even crimes coz no illegal is a criminal for stealing, cheating, lying, and trespassing, right? I am more deserving of your sympathy than poor American blacks (you are tired of their problems anyway). Inform your representatives that you want me to stay and have a path to citizenship. Vote in the liberals!

Explain to me how this post applies to all illegal immigrants regardless of race? That is my current contribution to this thread. If this isn't a spade, what is it?

Social sarcasm goes over your head, I see. Continue to see racism around every corner. I can't help you.

[Peikko 1,575]

The burden of illegal immigrants on tax payers, such as it is is a mere drop in the ocean compared with other things the government does with tax dollars, many of which I might opt out of if there was such a choice. However, there isn't so I don't get all bent out of shape because my taxes goes to those things as well as the things I might be more in favour of.

I think you have also misread what I said ever so slightly. I didn't say "I don't care about taxes". I said "I don't get all fired up about paying taxes". It has to be done in order to create a society.