Immigrants hit hard by U.S. slowdown and subprime crisis

[Caladan 19]

Define "conscientious"...I have no credit cards, spend within my budget, save $ in every paycheck, hardly go out...

Maybe it's not so much how 'good' you are with your money, but more to do with what kind of home you would like to buy?

Or the area in which you live. My friend who lives outside of Atlanta easily purchased a house on her husband's resident salary (not a lot), and couldn't fathom why I didn't own my own home in Connecticut.

[rebeccajo 14]

Define "conscientious"...I have no credit cards, spend within my budget, save $ in every paycheck, hardly go out...

Maybe it's not so much how 'good' you are with your money, but more to do with what kind of home you would like to buy?

Or the area in which you live. My friend who lives outside of Atlanta easily purchased a house on her husband's resident salary (not a lot), and couldn't fathom why I didn't own my own home in Connecticut.

True. But in the context of this discussion, it might not matter.

greeneyedgirlfl or Caladan may not be willing to live in a home or an area that an immigrant might consider just fine. No matter what area of the country (house price wise).

Edited February 17, 2008 by rebeccajo

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Define "conscientious"...I have no credit cards, spend within my budget, save $ in every paycheck, hardly go out...

Maybe it's not so much how 'good' you are with your money, but more to do with what kind of home you would like to buy?

Or the area in which you live. My friend who lives outside of Atlanta easily purchased a house on her husband's resident salary (not a lot), and couldn't fathom why I didn't own my own home in Connecticut.

True. But in the context of this discussion, it might not matter.

greeneyedgirlfl or Caladan may not be willing to live in a home or an area that an immigrant might consider just fine. No matter what area of the country (house price wise).

I'm not inclined to disagree with anything in the article, but I think this is simply indicative of a general state of affairs across the country with individuals at all socio-economic strata. In fact, I'd be inclined to say that the crisis appears not so much with immigrants that are in low paying jobs, but rather within the demographics of the upper eschelon income earners. In a state of chaos, the minimum wage earners aren't always the first to be laid off!

[greeneyedgirlfl 0]

Define "conscientious"...I have no credit cards, spend within my budget, save $ in every paycheck, hardly go out...

Maybe it's not so much how 'good' you are with your money, but more to do with what kind of home you would like to buy?

Or the area in which you live. My friend who lives outside of Atlanta easily purchased a house on her husband's resident salary (not a lot), and couldn't fathom why I didn't own my own home in Connecticut.

True. But in the context of this discussion, it might not matter.

greeneyedgirlfl or Caladan may not be willing to live in a home or an area that an immigrant might consider just fine. No matter what area of the country (house price wise).

That certainly may be part of it...maybe another part of it is the unwillingness to live with 10+ of my family members in the same house...

I live in an in an apartment in an upper middle class neighborhood; there are plenty of illegals living here (even in my complex). They qualify by having someone else (who has enough provable income) sign the lease, then they move in with themselves and their extended family. Even though this is technically breaking the lease (by subletting it), they rarely get caught, and if they do get caught, not much is done about it. I'm sure it's just as easy to do the same thing with a house.

[athena_ny 1]

Define "conscientious"...I have no credit cards, spend within my budget, save $ in every paycheck, hardly go out...

Maybe it's not so much how 'good' you are with your money, but more to do with what kind of home you would like to buy?

Or the area in which you live. My friend who lives outside of Atlanta easily purchased a house on her husband's resident salary (not a lot), and couldn't fathom why I didn't own my own home in Connecticut.

True. But in the context of this discussion, it might not matter.

greeneyedgirlfl or Caladan may not be willing to live in a home or an area that an immigrant might consider just fine. No matter what area of the country (house price wise).

That certainly may be part of it...maybe another part of it is the unwillingness to live with 10+ of my family members in the same house...

I live in an in an apartment in an upper middle class neighborhood; there are plenty of illegals living here (even in my complex). They qualify by having someone else (who has enough provable income) sign the lease, then they move in with themselves and their extended family. Even though this is technically breaking the lease (by subletting it), they rarely get caught, and if they do get caught, not much is done about it. I'm sure it's just as easy to do the same thing with a house.

Uh, if you buy a house it's your's to do with as you wish. If they want 10 people living there, that's their thing.

And living with large family groups is not so much a symptom of the illegal, but rather a symptom of America's isolated view of family. My husband lived with a lot of family when he was in his country, and a lot of countries are like this. More developed countries who think it's "weird" and "dirty" are the exception, not the rule.

[greeneyedgirlfl 0]

Define "conscientious"...I have no credit cards, spend within my budget, save $ in every paycheck, hardly go out...

Maybe it's not so much how 'good' you are with your money, but more to do with what kind of home you would like to buy?

Or the area in which you live. My friend who lives outside of Atlanta easily purchased a house on her husband's resident salary (not a lot), and couldn't fathom why I didn't own my own home in Connecticut.

True. But in the context of this discussion, it might not matter.

greeneyedgirlfl or Caladan may not be willing to live in a home or an area that an immigrant might consider just fine. No matter what area of the country (house price wise).

That certainly may be part of it...maybe another part of it is the unwillingness to live with 10+ of my family members in the same house...

I live in an in an apartment in an upper middle class neighborhood; there are plenty of illegals living here (even in my complex). They qualify by having someone else (who has enough provable income) sign the lease, then they move in with themselves and their extended family. Even though this is technically breaking the lease (by subletting it), they rarely get caught, and if they do get caught, not much is done about it. I'm sure it's just as easy to do the same thing with a house.

Uh, if you buy a house it's your's to do with as you wish. If they want 10 people living there, that's their thing.

And living with large family groups is not so much a symptom of the illegal, but rather a symptom of America's isolated view of family. My husband lived with a lot of family when he was in his country, and a lot of countries are like this. More developed countries who think it's "weird" and "dirty" are the exception, not the rule.

However, we DO live in developed country where 10+ people are the exception, not the rule. I simply stated something that I have observed: the breaking of residency laws in apartments and someone qualifying for a residency under false pretenses (whether it is rented or owned).

[peejay 327]

Uh, if you buy a house it's your's to do with as you wish. If they want 10 people living there, that's their thing.

And living with large family groups is not so much a symptom of the illegal, but rather a symptom of America's isolated view of family. My husband lived with a lot of family when he was in his country, and a lot of countries are like this. More developed countries who think it's "weird" and "dirty" are the exception, not the rule.

Depending on where you live...just because you buy a house doesn't necessarily mean you can do as you please when it affects your neighbors. Have you ever heard of deed restrictions?

The houses in my 50 year old neighborhhood are deeded as "single family dwellings". Also, there are also restrictions on running a business out of your house, restrictions on remodeling / modifications to your house, and a host of other restrictions to protect the integrity of the neighborhood community. And these restrictions have been upheld and enforced throughout the years.

We had a situation with a guy running a landscaping business out of his 2 story house and housing his illegal alien employees there. There were landscaping trucks parked up and down the street in addition to heavy traffic in an otherwise quiet neghborhood due to numerous individuals living in the house.

There have also been attempts to install group homes for the retarded and/or mentally ill in the neighborhood. These violations were eliminated by the 50 year old deed restrictions. So you think that is cruel and mean? These deed restrictions also stop group homes (halfway houses) for ex-cons too. Would you want that in your neighborhood?

No...in my neighborhood you cannot do anything you want to just 'cuz you buy a house.

[athena_ny 1]

deleted to not feed into the rampant ignorance on VJ

Edited February 24, 2008 by athena_ny

[greeneyedgirlfl 0]

deleted to not feed into the rampant ignorance on VJ

A difference of opinion from yours does not imply "ignorance," simply a difference of opinion. Peejay and I were only stating our particular situations.

It IS illegal in my county of residence to have more than 2 people per bedroom per apartment living in a single apartment. It IS legal in certain deed restricted communities to place limits on things the homeowners can do. That is reality, not a value judgement.

I have never implied that I think anyone is a lesser person ("dirty" is the word you used) for wishing to live the way they do. I choose to not live that way, so I choose to live in an area where the rules favor that lifestyle. I resent people doing ILLEGAL things to circumvent the rules. And that would be applied to everyone, legals, illegals, and USCs.

Instead of bickering about whose lifestyle is better or worse, people in this country need to address the issues of affordable housing (or rather the lack of it).

[rebeccajo 14]

greeneyedgirlfl, have you ever been to your banker or mortgage broker to inquire about your housing options? There are many programs out there to help people with small downpayments purchase a home. And they aren't 'subprime scams' or only available sporadically.

Owning a home can be more affordable than you think.

PS - Regarding the multi-family thing, at one point in his childhood, my husband had an aunt and a grandmother living in the family home with he and his parents. I do think that in many countries, including those in Europe, the 'family unit' isn't defined in the same nuclear manner we define it here.

[greeneyedgirlfl 0]

greeneyedgirlfl, have you ever been to your banker or mortgage broker to inquire about your housing options? There are many programs out there to help people with small downpayments purchase a home. And they aren't 'subprime scams' or only available sporadically.

Owning a home can be more affordable than you think.

PS - Regarding the multi-family thing, at one point in his childhood, my husband had an aunt and a grandmother living in the family home with he and his parents. I do think that in many countries, including those in Europe, the 'family unit' isn't defined in the same nuclear manner we define it here.

Thanks for the idea, RJ, and when Darren comes over, we may look into it. I have been burned by a disreputable mortgage company (still in litigation over it) and, until that is resolved, I am not interested in owning. Plus, I don't know if I will stay in FL (My family has lived in the Central FL area for about 5 generations, but I'm not sure I want to stay here); and with the housing market as it is, I can't take a chance in not being able to sell a home and move.

But when I get to the point of purchasing again, I will take your advice to heart. Thanks!

[Krikit 1,164]

Thanks for the idea, RJ, and when Darren comes over, we may look into it. I have been burned by a disreputable mortgage company (still in litigation over it) and, until that is resolved, I am not interested in owning.

Yikes. That's scary. Can you give us the name of the mortgage company or an idea of what happened? Things are so much different here than what I am used to, and that makes me uneasy.

[greeneyedgirlfl 0]

Thanks for the idea, RJ, and when Darren comes over, we may look into it. I have been burned by a disreputable mortgage company (still in litigation over it) and, until that is resolved, I am not interested in owning.

Yikes. That's scary. Can you give us the name of the mortgage company or an idea of what happened? Things are so much different here than what I am used to, and that makes me uneasy.

The company had several names, but is out of business now...all of their assets are tied up in the same lawsuit (class action).

Just be careful if your mortgage is sold to another company. I had a fixed 30-year mortgage with payments (mortgage and escrow for insurance and taxes included) of $750 a month (in 2001). The original company (OC) sold it to a shell company which was owned by the OC. They didn't send me any correspondence to the change of status. This all happened right before the time of year that my insurance and taxes were due. They failed to pay my insurance, and since I "didn't have insurance" they "force-placed" insurance on me that was 5 times the cost my original insurance. The escrow was raided to pay the insurance; therefore, I had no money to pay my property taxes and still had money due for the balance of the new insurance. The new mortgage payment was about $1400, which at the time was only $250 less than my entire net pay. Since I live in FL, my old insurance carrier couldn't reinsure me since they were taking no new homeowner's policies. During this debacle, the mortgage was sold two more times to more shell companies of the OC.

Here's the kicker: the usurious insurance company was also owned by the same motgage company!

When the company tried to foreclose on me, I finally gave up trying to fight it and sold my house. I made a nice profit from it, but it has left a bitter taste in my mouth to buy another home....at least for the time being.

Edited February 25, 2008 by greeneyedgirlfl

[rebeccajo 14]

Thanks for the idea, RJ, and when Darren comes over, we may look into it. I have been burned by a disreputable mortgage company (still in litigation over it) and, until that is resolved, I am not interested in owning.

Yikes. That's scary. Can you give us the name of the mortgage company or an idea of what happened? Things are so much different here than what I am used to, and that makes me uneasy.

The company had several names, but is out of business now...all of their assets are tied up in the same lawsuit (class action).

Just be careful if your mortgage is sold to another company. I had a fixed 30-year mortgage with payments (mortgage and escrow for insurance and taxes included) of $750 a month (in 2001). The original company (OC) sold it to a shell company which was owned by the OC. They didn't send me any correspondence to the change of status. This all happened right before the time of year that my insurance and taxes were due. They failed to pay my insurance, and since I "didn't have insurance" they "force-placed" insurance on me that was 5 times the cost my original insurance. The escrow was raided to pay the insurance; therefore, I had no money to pay my property taxes and still had money due for the balance of the new insurance. The new mortgage payment was about $1400, which at the time was only $250 less than my entire net pay. Since I live in FL, my old insurance carrier couldn't reinsure me since they were taking no new homeowner's policies. During this debacle, the mortgage was sold two more times to more shell companies of the OC.

Here's the kicker: the usurious insurance company was also owned by the same motgage company!

When the company tried to foreclose on me, I finally gave up trying to fight it and sold my house. I made a nice profit from it, but it has left a bitter taste in my mouth to buy another home....at least for the time being.

It's next to impossible in today's world to obtain a mortgage that won't be sold. It's just the way that particular business operates these days. I have had mortgages that were sold; one was sold three times during the several years I had the loan.

There had to be something else 'unscrupulous' going on with this lender's procedures, or else they would still be in business and there would not be a class-action lawsuit.

It probably sounds like I'm defending the lender - I sure as heck am not. I've been in the lending/legal business for nearly 25 years and my boss is on the ethics committee for the WV State Bar.

[Caladan 19]

Define "conscientious"...I have no credit cards, spend within my budget, save $ in every paycheck, hardly go out...

Maybe it's not so much how 'good' you are with your money, but more to do with what kind of home you would like to buy?

Or the area in which you live. My friend who lives outside of Atlanta easily purchased a house on her husband's resident salary (not a lot), and couldn't fathom why I didn't own my own home in Connecticut.

True. But in the context of this discussion, it might not matter.

greeneyedgirlfl or Caladan may not be willing to live in a home or an area that an immigrant might consider just fine. No matter what area of the country (house price wise).

I'm not inclined to disagree with anything in the article, but I think this is simply indicative of a general state of affairs across the country with individuals at all socio-economic strata. In fact, I'd be inclined to say that the crisis appears not so much with immigrants that are in low paying jobs, but rather within the demographics of the upper eschelon income earners. In a state of chaos, the minimum wage earners aren't always the first to be laid off!

The crisis seems to have hit first time homebuyers hardest. Predatory lending practices are easier to fall for when you're the first person you know to buy a home and don't have a good sense for what is normal, and don't have the cash from selling another house to have as a good downpayment. (People here scoff at why that would matter, but people here say 'wait, the I-864 means I have to give up my own USC rights to public services, too. People aren't good at reading forms.) It caught up some keep-up-with-the-Joneses types, too.

---

Illegal immigrants get into apartments the same way legal immigrants who don't yet have jobs do. Someone who has a SSN and a job signs the lease and lists everyone else as an approved occupant. Or they do illegal sublets.