Alien divorce USC

[JVKn'CVO 11]

Thank you guys for all your replies, I appreciate it. I just cant stay married and be miserable.

I'm very sorry to hear about your situation . Immigration issues aside, is there no hope for your marriage? have you seeked counseling, or guide from your church? Maybe make a 2-3 weeks trip home to think things over?

Saludos,

Caro

[ausqueen 0]

Traditions Way - hope you will find the right answer to your question, and the help you need to get your happiness and joy back in life! Best wishes!

StillThePrettiest - exactly! Every single thing the migrating spouse does is a "one way street" for one single reason: love and marriage

tito - what are you bitter about??? Have you left your life behind when you moved to US to be with your beloved spouse? Regretting it? Are you the USC spouse who spent some money on your migrating wife/husband's move to the US? Regretting it? Get over it! Or start a thread and ask for some support on these forums. It might help you.

But , whatever you do... do not insult us who migrated here for one and one reason only: because we love our husband or wife and we willingly gave up EVERYTHING to start from zero here. Do not put us in the same category with people committing visa fraud! And do not assume that every failed marriage screams "visa fraud". Like someone said before me... you don't know what the OP has been through in her marriage.

And, do not insult us by diminishing our sacrifice - "(family, loved ones, whatever it is they leave behind)" - as if that's not enough!!! How about: OUR WHOLE LIFE... people, land, beauty, customs, work, money... and a lot more! Stop being so arrogant! America is not a perfect place to be (just like no place is), and had it not been for love... many of us wouldn't be here. Everything was better back home! Everything! But I am willing to work hard to make this country my new "home". That is the choice I made. And I made that choice because my husband calls this country home.

I now have a 2 yr Green Card. Haven forbid, should my marriage fail - I think I've "earned" every right to try and make life for myself, on my own here, should I choose to do so - USCIS approval pending, of course

Get off your self-righteous throne thinking you are called to deny me that right - even if only on this forum!

Phew!... now I am ready to move on, to read other threads!

(waves a big hello to all NON-fraudsters out there)

[tito 1]

"I think I've "earned" every right to try and make life for myself, on my own here, should I choose to do so - USCIS approval pending, of course"

So, you've "earned" your status...notwithstanding the things you left behind. This only begs the question...if what you left behind was so valuable, and things didn't work out here, what is there about "here" in the US that is so worthy that you have to "earn" your presence? Again the question...what's keeping you here? Not a question for you in particular, but a question for those who have the questions! You sort of jumped around in circles. So, yeah, there IS a value of being in the US, one worth risking it all for. Well, what's the risk to the immigrant who leaves, especially if the door is always open to return to those things so beloved.

Sorry, but the post sort of bolsters my point.

Arrogance? Sure. There are procedures in effect for immigration, and one of the means for lawful immigration is marriage. Marriage should be the end-all, of course...because love is stronger than all. But take that out of the equation, why should any immigrant have any special status just because they were "lucky" enough to marry a USC? A little harsh???? Probably. But in the risk-benefit analysis of the situation, it's the immigrant who seems to have the most to gain however and whichever way the relationship turns out...if things don't work out, their life in their own country is still available to them. On the other hand, it's the USC who has the most to lose if things don't work out...seems to me almost universal that the great majority of costs and expenses are borne by the USC...the USC stands to be subject to support costs if things don't work out...the USC can't just toss everything and move home...the USC has got to support the ex if things don't work out. Bitter? Nah. Realistic.

Welcome to the United States! Glad you are of the view that you've earned your presence here, and your presence is something precious and of value, not some right.

[Mags 112]

"Sounds like you're making a judgment call where none was asked for."

Absolutely. When the basis for the immigration is marriage, and the marriage didn't work out, then why should the immigrant have special standing to seek citizenship? The process should not be unlike that for any other person from overseas seeking citizenship, a green card, or whatever.

Each party to a relationship has a responsibility to and for the relationship. The issue of citizenship is ENTIRELY different from the issue of marital bliss. And they are ABSOLUTELY NOT inter-related. Just because an alien marries a USC and comes here on that basis, are you saying that they should have special consideration for the purposes of a green card and/or citizenship? What about the tens of thousands of OTHER potential immigrants who DIDN'T get married and that way get a ticket to the US? Why should the unhappily married immigrant have any greater rights?

Judgment? YOU BET! That's why the immigration process is so difficult. There are so many people who want to come here, and just because they hooked up with a citizen who ended up marrying them does not bestow upon them any greater rights than any other immigrant.

Tito ~ We don't know very much about the OP's circumstances and none of us here have a right to judge them. If you can help the OP by answering her question then that's great, otherwise I respectfully request that you please keep your rather misguided opinions to yourself. Thank you.

[ausqueen 0]

tito - what I said in my earlier post was in response to your sending all migrating spouses back from where they came from, saying that we don't have right to stay in the US should marriage fail, as if our efforts to build life for ourselves, together with our USC spouse, doesn't count. And remember, I am talking about bona fide marriages, and genuine break ups. That's what I mean by I've earned my right to continue on my own.

When I left, I didn't leave any "back up plans" in case my marriage doesn't work - I gave it all and now I want to settle down and live. And... no, I don't feel like going back where I would have to start all over yet again. We, the migrating spouses lost a lot by first move across Pacific, Atlantic, or whatever boarder we crossed. Why would we want to lose again by uprooting once more?

There is a value in being in a fulfilling marriage. That's what's worth risking it all for. That's why we are in US. Both spouses are supposed to equally gain by being happily married. When they are not - I guess they feel things are not working out so they divorce. The door to those things we so loved back home was closed when we moved here. Our life back home is NOT "available" to us any more. We sold homes, quit jobs, closed bank accounts, moved children, furniture, etc. etc.

We all spent thousands of dollars on trips to visit, on shipping cost and all that. So what if USC spouse ends up covering some costs?Why is your money more valued than mine? Just because you are a USC and I am an "alien"? You afraid you might end up paying for support? Well... if you (I mean: a USC) figure out you can't stay married, please DO move on and let us "aliens" adjust status on our own and work to support ourselves. We are not stupid or incapable just because we are from another country. Hope you don't mind that! Because that's what realisitc is! There are smart and capable people everywhere! Just let us be!

[tito 1]

"If you can help the OP by answering her question then that's great, otherwise I respectfully request that you please keep your rather misguided opinions to yourself. Thank you."

Forgive me - I thought that this was a discussion on the OP's options, when things don't work out. How or why you feel that my opinions are 'misguided' involves a judgment on your part. They are, after all, opinions, with which some might agree, and some might not agree. My issue, and one salient to this very discussion, is the seeming right of entitlement to particular immigration status based merely on marriage, and it's just not clear to me that such entitlement exists or should exist simply because of a relationship of the type underlying the attempt to immigrate.

People talk of all the tremendous sacrifices who come here from overseas seeking (I) a wonderful, loving marital relationship; (II) a life that, in the eyes of some, presents greater opportunitites than those that might exist in their native land; or (III) a combination of the foregoing. I just don't understand the situation where, if the marriage doesn't work out, the immigrant or proposed immigrant does not want to consider returning home, and is, instead, bent on securing immigration status. Is that such a misguided inquiry? Or one of significant import to these threads? This is not bitterness, or disdain, for anything or anyone. A question that makes people defensive, but that nobody seems ready or willing to answer. Sorry if that tweaks the sensibilities of some, but it's a valid line of questioning, and one that those who follow immigration issues that are so prevalent in today's news do consider. I'm no super-patriotic U S Citizen, and I don't want to close the doors to the outside world, but it just seems odd how people long and yearn for the things they supposedly sacrificed to come here, and if things don't work out here, their main concern is getting legal status in the US rather than contemplating the return home. I guess the sacrifice is worth it after all, regardless and irrespective of the motive, reason or relationship.

"Why would we want to lose again by uprooting once more?"

I don't know. It seems like, assuming one spends their entire life in a particular country or place, and then moves for a couple of years to a strange land to pursue a relationship, if that relationship dissolves, it would be a LOT easier to return to the place where you spent most of your life, where you're familiar with customs, work ethic, and so on and so forth, than to try to figure it all out from scratch in a new place. There is comfort in familiarity. So, there doesn't really seem that much that was lost in the process for the intended immigrant if things don't work out.

Edited February 1, 2008 by tito

[mtracksport 0]

tito, have you ever been out of the U.S. for more than just a vacation? I spent 54 months fighting in vietnam during the war, 36 months in el-salvador fighting and training troops, 1yr in panama chasing Noriega, 6mo in somalia, finally ending my military career in Iraq during desert storm. I have traveled all over the world and have found out one thing that is really quite the deal. America is not looked upon by others as we look upon ourselves. Australia is beauitiful and the economy is good, Canada the same way. England needs more land but what island doesn't?? Most people in these countries do not care either way whether they immigrate to the U.S. or not. The countries where the economy is bad , yes . America is better. when it comes to feeding your family and educating them , why not come here??I will gladly give my life to defend the constitution and my way of life and would never even think about giving up my citizenship but as was earlier said , it is not for us to judge based on the info we have. the husband may be a abuser. would you have her stay in the marriage? we are a nation of immigrants. no one can say their families came here for anything other than a better life. // LIVE AND LET LIVE//

[tito 1]

First, I commend you for your commitment to honor and the dignity of the rights and freedoms we have in the US...and for putting your life on the line for that commitment. I envy your courage, and salute you.

Indeed, I have lived elsewhere...in Europe, in the middle east, in Mexico, and also in Cuba as part of a humantarian and religious mission I started over 12 years ago. I do see that, while some view the US with disdain, many do so out of envy and the fact that the benefits of the US outweigh the complaints (in most cases, anyway). The fox didn't like the grapes either because they were certain to have been sour. I learned that in 1st grade. But I also learned that the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Perhaps those in a military context do see more of the disdain for the US than do civilians living among the people who admire the US and will do and say anything to get here, whether European or Latin American or Middle Eastern. While there may be chauvanism on the part of the non-US citizen, there is a curiosity and a desire to have and own what I call sort of the "badges" of our system (whether it is a pair of shoes, or a car, or whatever material thing that it might be, or something less tangible, whatever).

But I don't see the harm in wanting to go back to the country of your life, or the return being an option...and there's no guarantee of citizenship just because you married a US citizen. Indeed, there may be and are instances of abuse or other tragic results that obtain from no fault on the part of the immigrant. I'm just saying MERELY that it is an option to return home, and just because someone had a relationship with a US citizen, that, in itself, should not (in my not so humble opinion...) stand as a gateway to citizenship in the US. Yet, that is seemingly a prevailing view among many immigrants faced with a failed relationship with a USC. Is there an entitlement? I don't think so. And I don't think there should be.

[StillThePrettiest 3]

...from what I've seen, anyway, it's not the immigrant who makes the lion's share of sacrifices, it's the US Citizen changing their lives forever, banking on the relationship, spending pots and pots of cash, the airfare, and whatever else...

I don't know where you're looking, but that is ridiculous enough to be farcical... even my fiancé agrees that in this situation, it's all win for him; he's paid the original filing fee (luckily, still at $170 when we filed), and has bought a house, but was going to do that anyway, and at the moment has a tenant in it who's covering his entire mortgage... he will move from a share house where he's not all that happy, and into his own place, nearer his job, close enough to his parents (without being too close ), and everything will be rosy... he can't wait

me? the first, and biggest thing is that I've agreed to move, to a country I really have NO interest in (apart from my SO, which is of course considerable, but in the scheme of things I'd really rather stay here in London), I've resigned from TWO jobs, one of which was really going places after 18 months of hard work, and am leaving behind a small business I started a couple of years ago and which is also really going places; I've paid for police checks in two countries, given fingerprints, scheduled vaccinations and medical checks and filled in all manner of forms and paid every fee associated therewith... I'm about to shell out to ship some furniture and other stuff, and will do that a second time when I return to Aus and go through my storage space

when I fly to the US - which will be via Australia to see my family, since - again thanks to archaic laws - I can't marry there and have my family present at my wedding - I will cover the costs of my flights, London -> Sydney -> LA/wherever

in the meantime, I'm looking down the barrel of at least a few months without work, once I arrive in the US, thanks to the archaic laws that keep that separate to the visa, while the interest rates on my mortgage in Sydney continue to climb - I'm paying a hair under 9% interest at present

now, I DON'T MIND doing these things, because I want to be with my SO, and this is what we decided to do

but if I got there, and after a year it went south, but I'd established myself AGAIN, and got a job that was good, and started making friends, and so on, then yes: I think I should be treated differently to other potential immigrants

note, again, that I'm not talking about cases of visa fraud; that's completely different

(ironically, of course, were that to happen, I'd be out of there like a shot, as there are about fifty-seven places I'd rather live, but that's not pertinent to the discussion)

and I'll also add: you pontificate about immigrants 'earning' their right to be in the US, but you don't even seem to consider that many MANY US citizens have never 'earned' their right to anything... and that's ok; luck of the draw and all that... but the only reason many people start out in life with so many benefits and advantages is the completely random reason that they happened to be born in a rich country; they did NOTHING to earn that

something else that's not strictly relevant to the discussion, but it sticks in my craw every time I hear it, and working in development education and campaigning, you better believe I hear it a LOT

Edited February 1, 2008 by StillThePrettiest

[Jeraly 4]

I must say that my OH has to look for a place to live and has paid for our wedding. We pay for our own flights and I have paid the deposit for the wedding, all of the UK based expenses (interview, medical, vacs, flights, cat...). Again, I am uprooting my whole life to another country while he merely moves out from his aunt's house (which at the age of 25 isn't really as big a deal as it could be). I think it is unfair to assume that all non-USCs have nothing to do or no sacrifices to make... I feel that I am going through a hella lot more than my OH in terms of sacrifice but it is for all the right reasons.

[tito 1]

And a hearty welcome and for what it's worth my warmest personal regards and best wishes for all the success in the world! I don't know what the statistics reflect, but the courts are filled to the brim with examples of immigrant spouses seeking a divorce at the same time they're doing anything and everything to get a green card, and their relationship (such as it might be) is or was a very thinly veiled sham and nothing more. And those immigrants want the same protection under the immigration laws of the US as others who are well intended, who do give up a lot, and who do have a vested interested in the future of the relationship. Unfortunately, and this from dealing with colleagues in the field of immigration, I think the odds are more likely than not that those seeking special dispensation based on a failed marriage grabbed the brass ring and got here under the good graces of a USC. I'm not talking about those who are vested, whether emotionally OR financially. My criticism goes towards the multitudes who are not, and who, like it or not, seem to comprise the majority of divorced or divorcing immigrants looking for their green card.

This discussion concerns a divorced or divorcing immigrant, not a happy, vested, interested one, committed not simply to the acquisition of immigration rights, but to a fruitful relationship. I do NOT imply either way that the OP's situation is suspect or genuine...I simply suggested an alternative and an option - the option of going back home. And really...if a marriage fails...the immigration shouldn't be automatic, there should be a requirement of a greater showing of the bona fides of the relationship. As it stands, there are many examples even here on these pages of immigrant spouses running tearfully to authorities claiming that they are victims of an abusive relationship so that they can self-apply for a green card when, according to the USC spouse who did everything to make the relationship and immigration happen, swears that it was a sham from the beginning. Of whom should authorities be suspicious? Why should it be automatic for anyone, just because of the marriage? This is the question I have, and the intent of my comment was to spur a discussion, not raise the hair on everyone's back and make everyone defensive.

Edited February 1, 2008 by tito

[diadromous mermaid 36]

I simply suggested an alternative and an option - the option of going back home. And really...if a marriage fails...the immigration shouldn't be automatic, there should be a requirement of a greater showing of the bona fides of the relationship. As it stands, there are many examples even here on these pages of immigrant spouses running tearfully to authorities claiming that they are victims of an abusive relationship so that they can self-apply for a green card when, according to the USC spouse who did everything to make the relationship and immigration happen, swears that it was a sham from the beginning. Of whom should authorities be suspicious? Why should it be automatic for anyone, just because of the marriage? This is the question I have, and the intent of my comment was to spur a discussion, not raise the hair on everyone's back and make everyone defensive.

Option? This doesn't sound like an option to me...

I would sort of hope that, if the alien came here on the good graces of the efforts and time and expense of a US Citizen, and they didn't like the relationship, rather than wanting to become a citizen, the immigrant should consider returning to their country of origin on their own, or be deported.

Notwithstanding, there already is the option. But I believe your perception of that option not being exercised is skewed by the fact that those aliens that choose to return to their homeland don't need to post questions on how to do that on a messageboard.

[Caladan 19]

tito, immigration law lets a person whose marriage was entered into good faith and terminated file to remove conditions on his or her own. We are talking about cases without fraud, and you're insisting the person should leave the country because the USC is the only person who put in time or effort or sacrificed anything. Which ignores that moving across the world does upend one's life, and a person who did that and resettled might not want do that twice.

With all due respect, that the foreign spouse hasn't given up anything only makes sense if you view the foreign spouse as a piece of property the USC bought.

Fortunately immigration law doesn't agree. If they find that the marriage was entered into primarily for immigration benefit alone, then the person has no right to stay here. But marriages fail, for any number of reasons, and it isn't in anyone's interesting to make someone stay in a failed or abusive marriage to "earn" permanent residency.

[Aussielad 37]

i believe that the reason WHY Tito is saying all this is maybe because he went through an experience in the past, maybe got burned by it and still has hard feelings over it.

Settle down, every situation is different, and if that is the case that you've had a bad experience, learn to forgive, because when you do that, you'll feel alot better, and probably won't generate such negativity.

[tito 1]

Not at all...but I have seen repeated examples of the situation, and in discussing the issue with a colleague who specializes in immigration law, have come to learn that, despite the appearance of well intended immigrants, the primary concern is, for the most part, the green card first, and the relationship second. There are agencies and even attorneys out there who specialize in assisting prospective immigrants attain a green card, and regardless of the circumstances at home, make claims of abuse that have absolutely no basis, yet the immigrant gets to self-apply apart from the marital relationship. Again, I'm NOT talking about the instances of a genuine, loving, relationship, because from what I am told by colleagues, those instances are actually in the minority; rather, I'm talking about the situation where the immigrant has nothing to lose and is not vested in the relationship, comes to the US with a 'take it or leave it' attitude, and then runs at the drop of a hat for the green card instead of the opting to return home if things are so bad. I don't know anything about the circumstances of the OP, but if things are so bad, why is returning home NOT an option?

To others who sacrificed their lives back home, I, for one, commend you for the courage, dedication and commitment to the relationship. The stories in this forum are replete with examples of some very burned and scorned USC who are on the short end of the stick, and these same USC are on the hook for 10 years of support, undertook major life changes to make the relationship work, and so on (not that the immigrant didn't, but there was much more to gain from the experience for them...because if that were not the case, then it seems to me that there would not be any question that the first option would be to return home; but, no, the questions here all seem to concern the shortcut to staying!).

And, no, I don't view the relationship as "property" - that is totally putting words in my mouth and attributing to me a thought or feeling or expression I do not hold and have not held; however, I DO view the green card as a PRIVILEGE and NOT a right that becomes vested simply because the immigrant married a USC. There's got to be more to a green card than that!

Again - this is meant to be a civil discussion on this issue, and not to ruffle the feathers of anyone or provoke anyone other than to offer opinions. And mermaid...why isn't going home an option? That is what I really do not understand. If 'home' is so precious, and so tough to give up in order to seek the streets paved with gold here in the US (a metaphor...), if it were me, I'd be outta here. What's the allure? What is the big deal? Why is 'home' not an option????? Please explain.