OT: Russian Language Lessons

[russ 1]

Rosetta Stone might be good to augment books and instruction, but for that function it is way over-priced.

Rosetta stone is an overpriced rip off. Use this course http://languagegeek.net/2007/09/22/a-torre...ussian-courses/

It is free, and covers grammar correctly early on. Plenty of audio.

[visaveteran1 33]

Too much learning going on, me thinks. When the Russian wife arrives in the USA with anything less than fluent skills in English, she's gotta start learning serious American style English. She, by default, is the key student...her future life depends on success as the student of English. It's a tall order.

I think it just mucks things up to add in the husband (or wife) also becoming a student of Russian at the same time. The wife needs to focus on English and her well-meaning but perhaps misguided husband is screwing around with Russian and distracting her from speaking and, indeed, thinking in English.

It's simply a matter of priority and survival. There are 365 days a year...in the USA how many of those days does she NEED to speak Russian (except on phone calls to the motherland)? Answer: zero. Of course, I'm excluding trips back top Russia...blah blah blah. But the key is only one student per family.

I wasted a lot of my life learning things I never needed...enough is enough.

But for you guys bound and determined to become Русские люди...happy trails.

[eekee 182]

Too much learning going on, me thinks. When the Russian wife arrives in the USA with anything less than fluent skills in English, she's gotta start learning serious American style English. She, by default, is the key student...her future life depends on success as the student of English. It's a tall order.

I think it just mucks things up to add in the husband (or wife) also becoming a student of Russian at the same time. The wife needs to focus on English and her well-meaning but perhaps misguided husband is screwing around with Russian and distracting her from speaking and, indeed, thinking in English.

It's simply a matter of priority and survival. There are 365 days a year...in the USA how many of those days does she NEED to speak Russian (except on phone calls to the motherland)? Answer: zero. Of course, I'm excluding trips back top Russia...blah blah blah. But the key is only one student per family.

I wasted a lot of my life learning things I never needed...enough is enough.

But for you guys bound and determined to become Русские люди...happy trails.

We work on both languages at the same time and it works quite well, i think. Besides, learning a new language is mind-expanding.

[mox 298]

I just don't know why learning has to be mutually exclusive. One person can only absorb so much of a language a day. For me, the limit of my learning--balls to the walls--is less than a couple hours a day. After that I just can't absorb any more.

She will be immersed in the language from the moment she steps off the airplane. Will less than a few hours a day (and let's be realistic, probably less than a three hours a week once we settle into a routine) really interfere with the 40+ hours per week of total immersion that she'll be experiencing? I don't think so.

I could be wrong. Certainly when she arrives we'll see how things go. If she's completely adverse to helping me learn because she's got language learning of her own to do, then I'll respect that and back off. I suspect she'll actually welcome the opportunity to switch over to her native language for a few hours a week, but I could be wrong.

So yeah...of course the priority is English. That's a no-brainer. But I don't see why that's such a big deal. Of those 365 days a year you mentioned, how many of those days do you spend in front of a television or surfing the net or playing computer games? I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure I could be speaking 3 languages by now if I'd utilized my time better.

Learning is never wasted. You may have learned skills you never needed, but the process of learning those skills almost certainly helped you in other areas of your life.

[visaveteran1 33]

I just don't know why learning has to be mutually exclusive. One person can only absorb so much of a language a day. For me, the limit of my learning--balls to the walls--is less than a couple hours a day. After that I just can't absorb any more.

She will be immersed in the language from the moment she steps off the airplane. Will less than a few hours a day (and let's be realistic, probably less than a three hours a week once we settle into a routine) really interfere with the 40+ hours per week of total immersion that she'll be experiencing? I don't think so.

I could be wrong. Certainly when she arrives we'll see how things go. If she's completely adverse to helping me learn because she's got language learning of her own to do, then I'll respect that and back off. I suspect she'll actually welcome the opportunity to switch over to her native language for a few hours a week, but I could be wrong.

So yeah...of course the priority is English. That's a no-brainer. But I don't see why that's such a big deal. Of those 365 days a year you mentioned, how many of those days do you spend in front of a television or surfing the net or playing computer games? I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure I could be speaking 3 languages by now if I'd utilized my time better.

Learning is never wasted. You may have learned skills you never needed, but the process of learning those skills almost certainly helped you in other areas of your life.

You make some good points and I hear you...but remember there's a big difference in your wife speaking native Russian to another native Russian and teaching you and listening to your struggling novice Russian. I think she'll appreciate the effort but maybe she'll find it tiring and distracting as well... switching from student to teacher. But you're right, time will tell and you can make adjustments as you go. And you may be gifted and a natural at picking it up.

[eekee 182]

You make some good points and I hear you...but remember there's a big difference in your wife speaking native Russian to another native Russian and teaching you and listening to your struggling novice Russian. I think she'll appreciate the effort but maybe she'll find it tiring and distracting as well... switching from student to teacher. But you're right, time will tell and you can make adjustments as you go. And you may be gifted and a natural at picking it up.

My guy really likes speaking Russian to me. But I'm 2 months away from a Bachelors in Russian, so my situation is different--we don't work on the basics but focus on making my russian more idiomatic. It seems like most of the people here who are serious about learning Russian don't expect their SO to teach them everything, but take classes/have a private tutor/etc.

Edited March 10, 2008 by eekee

[mox 298]

You make some good points and I hear you...but remember there's a big difference in your wife speaking native Russian to another native Russian and teaching you and listening to your struggling novice Russian. I think she'll appreciate the effort but maybe she'll find it tiring and distracting as well... switching from student to teacher. But you're right, time will tell and you can make adjustments as you go.

Agreed. I'm what I unabashedly call mysef a UNIX expert. My ex-wife (back when she was just 'the wife') needed to learn a little bit of UNIX for her job, and silly me thought I could teach her. It's one thing to teach someone, it's completely different teaching your spouse. Those lessons did not go well at all.

I'd like to speak some Russian with Nadya, and I'm sure there will be plenty of "teaching" going on, but regular sit-down lessons...no, I don't expect that'll work out. It's the same reason I'll probably hire someone to teach her to drive. Learning from your spouse is just different, and often counter-productive.

And you may be gifted and a natural at picking it up.

LOL! I've been trying to learn possessive pronouns for about 10 days. I am a lot of things at picking it up, but natural does not come to mind.

My guy really likes speaking Russian to me. But I'm 2 months away from a Bachelors in Russian, so my situation is different--we don't work on the basics but focus on making my russian more idiomatic. It seems like most of the people here who are serious about learning Russian don't expect their SO to teach them everything, but take classes/have a private tutor/etc.

Yeah I plan on keeping the tutor for reasons mentioned above, at least until I'm proficient enough to muddle my way through most normal conversations. So while you're working to make your Russian more idiomatic, I'm trying to make my Russian less idiotic.

Edited March 10, 2008 by mox

[russ 1]

so my situation is different--we don't work on the basics but focus on making my russian more idiomatic. It seems like most of the people here who are serious about learning Russian don't expect their SO to teach them everything, but take classes/have a private tutor/etc.

No one's situation is the same. In our case, my wife has no time to teach me Russian. She hates it. Both of us speak English fluently, her Russian is native while mine is good enough, my French is good, her German could use some help.

It comes down to this: If you have learned another language, another is not a big deal (you know what is involved, and it doesn't bother you.) If not, don't bother. You probably won't like what you need to do.

At this point, my Russian is horrible. It improves when I'm actually there, since I will be speaking it all of the time. In that way, it is about the same as my French - it gets better when I actually use it. I can understand 95% of what people say, and read with decent comprehension. I understand what my wife is saying on the phone (drives her crazy), but at the same time it bothered her when I spoke French and she couldn't understand what I was saying.

Expecting your spouse to teach you is a tall order. It probably won't happen.

[eekee 182]

No one's situation is the same.

I know... I was just saying that not everyone fits into seanconneryii's example of needing to be taught from the beginning by an SO.

Would you say that your french helped you, russ? i took spanish for nine years (although I had stopped taking it for year by the time i began russian) and i thought it hurt me more than helped me, although i know that there are many loan words from french that became part of the russian vernacular.

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

I understand where it could be a tall order for some. (Some couples can't operate in a teacher-student relationship.) However, I learned more from my Alla in one year living with her in Russia than in the rest of the other four years self-studying. Alla has no problem teaching me Russian anymore than I have improving her English. We will have better things to spend our time and cash on than third-party lessons when she arrives. It will remain a priority in our lives, to teach each other, until we are both where we wish to be.

so my situation is different--we don't work on the basics but focus on making my russian more idiomatic. It seems like most of the people here who are serious about learning Russian don't expect their SO to teach them everything, but take classes/have a private tutor/etc.

No one's situation is the same. In our case, my wife has no time to teach me Russian. She hates it. Both of us speak English fluently, her Russian is native while mine is good enough, my French is good, her German could use some help.

It comes down to this: If you have learned another language, another is not a big deal (you know what is involved, and it doesn't bother you.) If not, don't bother. You probably won't like what you need to do.

At this point, my Russian is horrible. It improves when I'm actually there, since I will be speaking it all of the time. In that way, it is about the same as my French - it gets better when I actually use it. I can understand 95% of what people say, and read with decent comprehension. I understand what my wife is saying on the phone (drives her crazy), but at the same time it bothered her when I spoke French and she couldn't understand what I was saying.

Expecting your spouse to teach you is a tall order. It probably won't happen.

Edited March 10, 2008 by Kazan' Tiger

[Jason-Sasha 1]

I understand where it could be a tall order for some. (Some couples can't operate in a teacher-student relationship.) However, I learned more from my Alla in one year living with her in Russia than in the rest of the other four years self-studying. Alla has no problem teaching me Russian anymore than I have improving her English. We will have better things to spend our time and cash on than third-party lessons when she arrives. It will remain a priority in our lives, to teach each other, until we are both where we wish to be.

so my situation is different--we don't work on the basics but focus on making my russian more idiomatic. It seems like most of the people here who are serious about learning Russian don't expect their SO to teach them everything, but take classes/have a private tutor/etc.

No one's situation is the same. In our case, my wife has no time to teach me Russian. She hates it. Both of us speak English fluently, her Russian is native while mine is good enough, my French is good, her German could use some help.

It comes down to this: If you have learned another language, another is not a big deal (you know what is involved, and it doesn't bother you.) If not, don't bother. You probably won't like what you need to do.

At this point, my Russian is horrible. It improves when I'm actually there, since I will be speaking it all of the time. In that way, it is about the same as my French - it gets better when I actually use it. I can understand 95% of what people say, and read with decent comprehension. I understand what my wife is saying on the phone (drives her crazy), but at the same time it bothered her when I spoke French and she couldn't understand what I was saying.

Expecting your spouse to teach you is a tall order. It probably won't happen.

Personally, I don't see why any of us would need to buy an expensive English or Russian language learning device. We have something better than these courses. We have our SO's. I know Sasha will teach me the entire Russian language over the next few decades. For free.

[eekee 182]

Personally, I don't see why any of us would need to buy an expensive English or Russian language learning device. We have something better than these courses. We have our SO's. I know Sasha will teach me the entire Russian language over the next few decades. For free.

I think your SO would only be better if they're a trained pedagogue. Plus I wouldn't want to have to wait decades to be fluent in Russian!

[Jason-Sasha 1]

Personally, I don't see why any of us would need to buy an expensive English or Russian language learning device. We have something better than these courses. We have our SO's. I know Sasha will teach me the entire Russian language over the next few decades. For free.

I think your SO would only be better if they're a trained pedagogue. Plus I wouldn't want to have to wait decades to be fluent in Russian!

Haha! Yes, you're right. Thankfully, my Sasha is a professional linguist. She doesn't think so, but she's quite modest....most of the time! She's a professional translator and script editor/writer for Sony Pictures. She's pretty fluent in several languages. So, I'm sure I will get a better education from her than any store bought course. Hell, I'm pretty sure she knows more about the rules of English grammar, than I do.

[eekee 182]

Haha! Yes, you're right. Thankfully, my Sasha is a professional linguist. She doesn't think so, but she's quite modest....most of the time! She's a professional translator and script editor/writer for Sony Pictures. She's pretty fluent in several languages. So, I'm sure I will get a better education from her than any store bought course. Hell, I'm pretty sure she knows more about the rules of English grammar, than I do.

I've noticed she writes very well in her posts. My guy has his degree in computer science, not linguistics, so he would be a really good teacher if i wanted to learn a language like c++ or java, but for Russian he can only tell me what he would say, but not really why he says it that way.

[slim 1,514]

You make some good points and I hear you...but remember there's a big difference in your wife speaking native Russian to another native Russian and teaching you and listening to your struggling novice Russian. I think she'll appreciate the effort but maybe she'll find it tiring and distracting as well... switching from student to teacher. But you're right, time will tell and you can make adjustments as you go. And you may be gifted and a natural at picking it up.

My guy really likes speaking Russian to me. But I'm 2 months away from a Bachelors in Russian, so my situation is different--we don't work on the basics but focus on making my russian more idiomatic. It seems like most of the people here who are serious about learning Russian don't expect their SO to teach them everything, but take classes/have a private tutor/etc.

They're not going to have a common language already. She's going to have to pick up English. In the relationships where there's a good understanding of either language, you can be more selective. But, in the scenario where she comes here with minimal English and he's been a one-language person forever, there's definitely going to be no "lessons" in Russian. Sure, he'll pick up some words and phrases but the majority of learning, by simple necessity, will be English only.

"Russ" (I messed up quotes... sorry)

It comes down to this: If you have learned another language, another is not a big deal (you know what is involved, and it doesn't bother you.) If not, don't bother. You probably won't like what you need to do.

At this point, my Russian is horrible. It improves when I'm actually there, since I will be speaking it all of the time. In that way, it is about the same as my French - it gets better when I actually use it. I can understand 95% of what people say, and read with decent comprehension. I understand what my wife is saying on the phone (drives her crazy), but at the same time it bothered her when I spoke French and she couldn't understand what I was saying.

Expecting your spouse to teach you is a tall order. It probably won't happen.

"End Russ"

Personally, I don't see why any of us would need to buy an expensive English or Russian language learning device. We have something better than these courses. We have our SO's. I know Sasha will teach me the entire Russian language over the next few decades. For free.

See what Russ said (inside your quote... I messed that up. Sorry.) about having your S/O teach you. Their abilities and qualifications really don't matter too much when it comes to teaching you. When you learn a foreign language, it jogs your brain into "communication" mode and learning other languages is easier. However, it's more up to you than your S/O and even though they can try to teach you to fluency, it's more up to you how far you'll go.