Can I get some advice? Nobody in my family will be a co-sponsor

[rebeccajo 14]

Dave -

Don't read about the I864 right now. That's not the form you will use for the visa approval. You will use the I134.

PLEASE read the instructions for the I134 and the form itself - regarding sufficiency of income, household size and the like - and get back to us.

THEN we will talk about the I864.

I'm not picking on you but I really want you to take some ownership of this. And our discussions will be good in helping others have a better understanding also.

[pushbrk 12,898]

Dave -

Don't read about the I864 right now. That's not the form you will use for the visa approval. You will use the I134.

PLEASE read the instructions for the I134 and the form itself - regarding sufficiency of income, household size and the like - and get back to us.

THEN we will talk about the I864.

I'm not picking on you but I really want you to take some ownership of this. And our discussions will be good in helping others have a better understanding also.

Yep, one step at a time. Pretty soon, some lights are going to start coming on.

[Nutty 2]

Hey everyone,

Well, I am starting to lose hope that this is really going to work out. The fact of having a co-sponsor is just something that will not fly with anyone in my family. Nobody is willing to help me out saying it is high risk. I guess it is true what they have to say, but I am left pretty much hopeless now. Even though I may be working two jobs, my income is only about $14 - $16,000 a year. I have no idea what I can do. Its not like I have assets worth of a million dallors. I am a hopeless college student in love with someone whom I can't even be with if I wanted to. I just don't know what to do. If any of you have any ideas, please, give me some insights. I am really at the bottom now.

Dear Dave,

I am sorry for your situation. However, asking someone to be a joint sponsor is a big responsibility. The Affidavit of Support is basically a form used to demonstrate financial capacity to support an immigrant and a written guarentee from the sponsor that they will "pick up the tab" if the immigrant needs government assistance. Hard to put yourself "out there" financially for a somebody you don't know.

If no Joint sponsor is available, then you have few options:

1) Take time off from school and get a full time job for the year 2008. At least enough to earn over the poverty requirements. Then file your taxes in 2009 showing you have enough income.

2) Get a second job now.

At this point, it is up to you to be the sole financial sponsor. So, it's up to you to do what is necessary to make this Affidavit of Support workable. Are you willing to cut back on school to do this?

[Nutty 2]

A LOAN does not qualify as income.

DO NOT GET OUT OF SCHOOL! You'll regret this decision and it's much harder to go back to school than you think at the moment.

Even if you do you will have to wait a year before you can prove that your income is above the poverty line and if you ask me just wait until you're done with college before even trying to apply. The wait is LONG for him to get his adjustment of status and employment authorisation once he enters the US. Medical insurance is astronomical if your job does not provide your spouse with medical insurance (like most student jobs do) and trust me having to pay for all the immigration based costs alone such as the medical, advance parole, adjustment of status etc are more than a student can afford. If your family and friends are not accepting to co-sponsor they definately have reason to. If they are ok with loaning you money however for you to make the poverty line then good luck and I hope that all works out well. With regard to the poverty line it changes depending on what State you live in so make sure you're getting the correct information.

a LOAN to make an affidavit of support go above the poverty requirements, I believe, not valid income.

Work, assets, retirement income, those are forms of income that qualify.

[pushbrk 12,898]

A LOAN does not qualify as income.

DO NOT GET OUT OF SCHOOL! You'll regret this decision and it's much harder to go back to school than you think at the moment.

Even if you do you will have to wait a year before you can prove that your income is above the poverty line and if you ask me just wait until you're done with college before even trying to apply. The wait is LONG for him to get his adjustment of status and employment authorisation once he enters the US. Medical insurance is astronomical if your job does not provide your spouse with medical insurance (like most student jobs do) and trust me having to pay for all the immigration based costs alone such as the medical, advance parole, adjustment of status etc are more than a student can afford. If your family and friends are not accepting to co-sponsor they definately have reason to. If they are ok with loaning you money however for you to make the poverty line then good luck and I hope that all works out well. With regard to the poverty line it changes depending on what State you live in so make sure you're getting the correct information.

a LOAN to make an affidavit of support go above the poverty requirements, I believe, not valid income.

Work, assets, retirement income, those are forms of income that qualify.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. A loan is not income but the proceeds of a loan, in a bank account are a liquid asset and neither affidavit of support asks about debts except a mortgage, if applicable.

[Nutty 2]

PUSHBRK, your right, I guess...I didn't see it that way...

If he puts the loan of money into a bank to "enhance" his assets it would not look like a loan. Just assets.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. A loan is not income but the proceeds of a loan, in a bank account are a liquid asset and neither affidavit of support asks about debts except a mortgage, if applicable.

[rebeccajo 14]

Nutty -

The I134, which is the affidavit a person would be signing for Dave or for any K1 visa application, is not a 'guarantee' from the person signing that they will 'pick up the tab' if the immigrant uses a means-tested benefit.

[rebeccajo 14]

Here is an awesome PDF from the Library of Congress that explains the differences between the I134 and the I864. The document is from 1997 - the law that implemented the I864 was written and took effect December 31 of that year.

For the very basic difference between the two affidavits, read Questions 1 and 2.

As you read through the rest of the PDF, remember you are reading about the I864, which has very different requirements than the I134. Also remember there were changes in 2006 to the I864, so all the 'minutia' you read in this PDF about assets, tax returns and the like may not be appropriate now.

What I like about this PDF is it explains how the I864 came to be, and why the I134 is not contractually binding.

http://digital.library.unt.edu/govdocs/crs.../meta-crs-461:1

[BigCityDave 0]

According to VJ, the following is said.

"While there are no specific income requirements listed in the I-134 form directions, you will be judged by the

same criteria as the I-864 form requirements when they are issueing the visa at the foreign US consulate, so

provide financial information for the I-134 with those guidelines in mind."

With that in mind, we must review the I-864 as the I-134 has no instructions given as to what income is acceptable, or as to what assets are acceptable.

As far as I understand from reviewing the I-134, I need to prove that I have enough income/financial resources to support my fiance. Which go according to guidelines set in the I-864. I will need

1. Bank records

2. Work records

According to the I-134 I will be responsible for all income and all needs for my fiance for a total of 3 years. If for some reason we need help from the government, then we are required to repay those expenses or we could be sued.

In understanding all of this, it still remains unclear to me whether or not I will be successful in my plan to meet the requirements using assets. Only the following is said.

"Assets may supplement income if the consular or immigration officer is convinced that the monetary value of the asset could reasonably be made available to support the sponsored immigrant and converted to cash within one year without undue harm to the sponsor or his or her family members. You may not include an automobile unless you show that you own at least one working automobile that you have not included."

If I understand this correctly, they don't care if I get a loan from my parents. All they care is that I have enough to support.

So in my mind it will all be alright as long as I secure my assets to be 5 times the difference. Which I can manage to put together with savings and maybe a loan if needed.

Is there something I am missing that you all know? I am trying to do my homework on this.

[rebeccajo 14]

Dave -

The Guides here at VJ, while very good, cannot always be taken as blanket assessments as what will happen in every case. They are just that - Guides.

The process for an I129F approval is fairly boilerplate no matter where the petitioner lives and no matter what country the foreign fiance/fiancee is from. The approval of a visa application which stems from an approved I12F is a horse of a different color - and that is because of consular differences. Soooo.....I am going to give you a bit more homework.

Research the anecdotal evidence on this website (and others) for the interivew process and procedures of the Hungarian consulate. Why?

The Guide is wrong. You will NOT necessarily be judged on the I134 to the same standards as the I864. You might be - depending on what your consulate's typical procedure is. But the blanket statement is wrong.

Because the I134 is vague in its instructions as to 'sufficiency' of income, each consulate is free to interpret what 'sufficiency' means. Some consulates do not even use the I134 - Ciudad Juarez and Kiev come to mind. If you are REALLY curious, you can dig through Google for State Department memos to consulates regarding what sufficiency is. They are advised to go with 100% of the poverty guideline, and not 125%. But at the end of the day, because each consulate is free to make its own determination, sufficiency will vary from host nation to host nation.

Now back to the Guides, which are written with a common sense look to the entire immigrant journey. Say the Hungarian consulate turns out to be a bit like the consulate I am most familiar with - London. From anecdotal evidence the London consulate tends to look at practical notions beyond the bottom line figure on an obtuse form. For example, in the past they have been known to approve young professionals with recently acquired good jobs, straight out of university and with no past performance of earnings, but rather a bright future ahead of them. In the past, London has often approved individuals who don't earn 125% of the poverty level. And that's fine - the State Department has told them that 100% is just a dandy number, and the CO can sign off on the visa application and not lose his or her job doing so. This is also all well and good for obtaining the visa and reuniting the couple. It doesn't fly so well, however, when adjustment of status follows 90 days or so after the beneficiary has wed their US sponsor. For now the sponsor must produce the I864, which ABSOLUTELY mandates 125% of the poverty level must be met. And that is why the Guides here will urge you to hit 125%.

I am dismayed to see that the 'Tips for the affidavit of support' page of VJ contains an error. In order to make up for any income shortfall you may have when you file your future wife's adjustment, the criteria you must meet is THREE times the shortfall, and not five. To confirm this, have a look at this memo dated June 2006 which contains the overview of changes to the Adjudicators Field Manual re: I864, specifically page 22 of this memo.

http://www.uscis.gov/files/pressrelease/AffSuppAFM062706.pdf

Summation - Research the Hungarian consulate. Find out what they normally like to see on the I134. You may be fine with 100% of the poverty level, which will get your girl here and married to you. If the Hungarian consulate is using something other than 100%, they are overreaching what is asked of them by the State Department. But that is their right to do so, and you'll have to plan for that if you find it to be so.

But also prepare for a few months out from visa approval when your wife files for adjustment to permanent residency. At that point you must hit the 125% mark. By then many factors may have changed. You may simply be earning more. Your family may have decided (after they have gotten to know her better) that they wouldn't mind joining you in her financial sponsorship. Your wife's gainful employment (if legally authorized) can even count towards the income shown on the form (but that's a Catch 22 for another day). Or, you can count assets if your own income isn't enough. But it's three times the shortfall, not five. My husband's adjustment was approved with use of my assets - my income did not meet the minimums (which is why I know how this process works!)

Even though pushbrk is right that VJ isn't a place for parental advice, I can't resist adding (after I've taken all this time with you - ) that I hope you will stay in school. The greatest injustice to your families future is jeopardizing it by leaving school to flip enough burgers to try and hit the numbers for the I134. There HAS to be a better way around the problem, and I'm pretty sure you are resourceful enough to figure out a way.

[BigCityDave 0]

Dave -

The Guides here at VJ, while very good, cannot always be taken as blanket assessments as what will happen in every case. They are just that - Guides.

The process for an I129F approval is fairly boilerplate no matter where the petitioner lives and no matter what country the foreign fiance/fiancee is from. The approval of a visa application which stems from an approved I12F is a horse of a different color - and that is because of consular differences. Soooo.....I am going to give you a bit more homework.

Research the anecdotal evidence on this website (and others) for the interivew process and procedures of the Hungarian consulate. Why?

The Guide is wrong. You will NOT necessarily be judged on the I134 to the same standards as the I864. You might be - depending on what your consulate's typical procedure is. But the blanket statement is wrong.

Because the I134 is vague in its instructions as to 'sufficiency' of income, each consulate is free to interpret what 'sufficiency' means. Some consulates do not even use the I134 - Ciudad Juarez and Kiev come to mind. If you are REALLY curious, you can dig through Google for State Department memos to consulates regarding what sufficiency is. They are advised to go with 100% of the poverty guideline, and not 125%. But at the end of the day, because each consulate is free to make its own determination, sufficiency will vary from host nation to host nation.

Now back to the Guides, which are written with a common sense look to the entire immigrant journey. Say the Hungarian consulate turns out to be a bit like the consulate I am most familiar with - London. From anecdotal evidence the London consulate tends to look at practical notions beyond the bottom line figure on an obtuse form. For example, in the past they have been known to approve young professionals with recently acquired good jobs, straight out of university and with no past performance of earnings, but rather a bright future ahead of them. In the past, London has often approved individuals who don't earn 125% of the poverty level. And that's fine - the State Department has told them that 100% is just a dandy number, and the CO can sign off on the visa application and not lose his or her job doing so. This is also all well and good for obtaining the visa and reuniting the couple. It doesn't fly so well, however, when adjustment of status follows 90 days or so after the beneficiary has wed their US sponsor. For now the sponsor must produce the I864, which ABSOLUTELY mandates 125% of the poverty level must be met. And that is why the Guides here will urge you to hit 125%.

I am dismayed to see that the 'Tips for the affidavit of support' page of VJ contains an error. In order to make up for any income shortfall you may have when you file your future wife's adjustment, the criteria you must meet is THREE times the shortfall, and not five. To confirm this, have a look at this memo dated June 2006 which contains the overview of changes to the Adjudicators Field Manual re: I864, specifically page 22 of this memo.

http://www.uscis.gov/files/pressrelease/AffSuppAFM062706.pdf

Summation - Research the Hungarian consulate. Find out what they normally like to see on the I134. You may be fine with 100% of the poverty level, which will get your girl here and married to you. If the Hungarian consulate is using something other than 100%, they are overreaching what is asked of them by the State Department. But that is their right to do so, and you'll have to plan for that if you find it to be so.

But also prepare for a few months out from visa approval when your wife files for adjustment to permanent residency. At that point you must hit the 125% mark. By then many factors may have changed. You may simply be earning more. Your family may have decided (after they have gotten to know her better) that they wouldn't mind joining you in her financial sponsorship. Your wife's gainful employment (if legally authorized) can even count towards the income shown on the form (but that's a Catch 22 for another day). Or, you can count assets if your own income isn't enough. But it's three times the shortfall, not five. My husband's adjustment was approved with use of my assets - my income did not meet the minimums (which is why I know how this process works!)

Even though pushbrk is right that VJ isn't a place for parental advice, I can't resist adding (after I've taken all this time with you - ) that I hope you will stay in school. The greatest injustice to your families future is jeopardizing it by leaving school to flip enough burgers to try and hit the numbers for the I134. There HAS to be a better way around the problem, and I'm pretty sure you are resourceful enough to figure out a way.

Wow, I don't know if I can thank you enough. Thank you for all the help which to me really means a lot at this point in my lifetime. Everything you have said here was very important to me and cleared a lot about what I have been reading. Again, thank you for taking the time.

Edited January 26, 2008 by BigCityDave

[rebeccajo 14]

You're welcome.

Now don't quit school.............

[Jesse and Hema 2]

[BigCityDave 0]

LOL, I love that picture.

Yes I plan on staying and my fiance supports me in staying as well. I have 2.5 school years left.