Hamas shut off the power to Palestine

[simple_male 1]

way to go wife of mahmoud.... the truth has to be said!!!!! the world has to know!!!!

innocent ppl of palestine need to be heard......

btw hamas means absolutely nothing to arabs thats not why we re here.....so keep mentioning them as much as u want we re not defending them.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Sure, only one sided person like you does not give any damn to great human beings like Desmond Tutu and Jimmt Carter. But most of reasonable people give damn about them. They both won the nobel prize for peace which are not flukes! Who gives damn to your one sided analysis?

Yasser Arafat won the Nobel Peace Prize too, and he was an actual terrorist. What a joke. Your point?

Menachem Begin was the terrorist who won the Nobel Peace Prize.

Israelites was a good reggae song though......oh, wait, it was Desmond Dekker who wrote it, not Tutu. Never mind

This is the second time you've brought up "Israelites" in a discussion about the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, and it's clear that you have no clue what this song is actually about.

This classic reggae song has *zero* *zip* *zilch* to do with supporting Zionist crimes in Palestine, but rather is a commentary on the hardships suffered by impoverished Jamaicans. It also touches on the idea (*how radical !*) that oppressive social and political conditions can lead to drastic reactions. Try to actually *listen* to the lyrics this time:

Get up in the morning, slaving for bread, sir,

so that every mouth can be fed.

Poor me, the Israelite. Aah.

Get up in the morning, slaving for bread, sir,

So that every mouth can be fed.

Poor me, the Israelite. Aah.

My wife and my kids, they are packed up and leave me.

Darling, she said, I was yours to be seen.

Poor me, the Israelite. Aah.

Shirt them a-tear up, trousers are gone.

I don't want to end up like Bonnie and Clyde.

Poor me, the Israelite. Aah.

After a storm there must be a calm.

They catch me in the farm. You sound the alarm.

Poor me, the Israelite. Aah.

Poor me, the Israelite.

I wonder who I'm working for.

Poor me, Israelite,

I look a-down and out, sir.

- "Israelites" as performed by Desmond Dekker & the Aces

written by Desmond Dacres and Leslie Kong

The many Biblical references in Rasta-inspired reggae tunes are intepreted through the black experience, and they sure ain't cheering on the illegal settlers squatting on Palestinian land in the West Bank. Rasta see themselves as the true "Israelites" who were stolen from their home in Africa and sold into slavery in the Americas for 400 years. They want to return to their home which they call "Zion" -- but it means Africa, not Palestine.

Reggae songs are often political, but they speak of equal rights and justice, not privilege based on one's ethnicity. Over and over, reggae songs speak out *against* European colonialism, the grasping of territory and resources, and the oppression of indigenous peoples.

So Rasta is not in your Zionist camp -- Rasta always takes the side of the downpressed, not the side of the downpressors.

There be no crime

Equal rights and justice

There be no criminals

Equal rights and justice

Everyone is fighting for

Equal rights and justice

Palestine is fighting for

Equal rights and justice

Down in Angola

Equal rights and justice

Down in Botswana

Equal rights and justice

Down in Zimbabwe

Equal rights and justice

Down in Rhodesia

Equal rights and justice

Right here in Jamaica

- Peter Tosh "Equal Rights" 1977

But I digress.....

[mawilson 2,133]

This is the second time you've brought up "Israelites" in a discussion about the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, and it's clear that you have no clue what this song is actually about.

...

The many Biblical references in Rasta-inspired reggae tunes are intepreted through the black experience, and they sure ain't cheering on the illegal settlers squatting on Palestinian land in the West Bank. Rasta see themselves as the true "Israelites" who were stolen from their home in Africa and sold into slavery in the Americas for 400 years. They want to return to their home which they call "Zion" -- but it means Africa, not Palestine.

Reggae songs are often political, but they speak of equal rights and justice, not privilege based on one's ethnicity. Over and over, reggae songs speak out *against* European colonialism, the grasping of territory and resources, and the oppression of indigenous peoples.

So Rasta is not in your Zionist camp -- Rasta always takes the side of the downpressed, not the side of the downpressors.

You're the one without a clue as to what this song and Rastafarianism in general are about.

Let me spell it out for you:

Israelites = Black people, the "oppressed"

Babylon = America, the Western World, the "oppressors"

Zion = Africa (Ethiopia, specifically)

River Jordan = Atlantic Ocean

Black slavery in America = Jewish slavery in Egypt

So, yes, Rastafarians identify with the Chosen People, the Israelites, the ancient Hebrews of the Pentateuch.

They believe that Zion is the kingdom of Jah (Jahweh) and hope someday to return to the Promised Land.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

This is the second time you've brought up "Israelites" in a discussion about the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, and it's clear that you have no clue what this song is actually about.

...

The many Biblical references in Rasta-inspired reggae tunes are intepreted through the black experience, and they sure ain't cheering on the illegal settlers squatting on Palestinian land in the West Bank. Rasta see themselves as the true "Israelites" who were stolen from their home in Africa and sold into slavery in the Americas for 400 years. They want to return to their home which they call "Zion" -- but it means Africa, not Palestine.

Reggae songs are often political, but they speak of equal rights and justice, not privilege based on one's ethnicity. Over and over, reggae songs speak out *against* European colonialism, the grasping of territory and resources, and the oppression of indigenous peoples.

So Rasta is not in your Zionist camp -- Rasta always takes the side of the downpressed, not the side of the downpressors.

You're the one without a clue as to what this song and Rastafarianism in general are about.

Let me spell it out for you:

Israelites = Black people, the "oppressed"

Babylon = America, the Western World, the "oppressors"

Zion = Africa (Ethiopia, specifically)

River Jordan = Atlantic Ocean

Black slavery in America = Jewish slavery in Egypt

So, yes, Rastafarians identify with the Chosen People, the Israelites, the ancient Hebrews of the Pentateuch.

They believe that Zion is the kingdom of Jah (Jahweh) and hope someday to return to the Promised Land.

LMFAO at you. You don't know who you a deal with here. Read what I wrote AGAIN.

To repeat: Rasta (not your ism-schism BS but RASTAFARI) does NOT identify with Zionists, who are European invaders and colonists and oppressors of indigenous peoples.

Rasta sees Africans as the true Israelites -- not as a metaphor or an "equivalent" to what Zionists believe, but rather as the *original* narrative.

Get it now ?

[mawilson 2,133]

LMFAO at you. You don't know who you a deal with here. Read what I wrote AGAIN.

To repeat: Rasta (not your ism-schism BS but RASTAFARI) does NOT identify with Zionists, who are European invaders and colonists and oppressors of indigenous peoples.

Rasta sees Africans as the true Israelites -- not as a metaphor or an "equivalent" to what Zionists believe, but rather as the *original* narrative.

Get it now ?

WRONG

Get it now?

[mawilson 2,133]

P.S. You should read what I wrote AGAIN.

I said Rastafarians identify with the ancient Hebrews of the Bible, not with "Zionists".

You're the one who keeps bringing "zee Zionists" into each and every discussion.

And if you want to be pedantic, Rasta is short for Rastafarian, not "Rastafari".

Rastafari is not a word. Ras Tafari is the given name of Ras Tafari Makonnen,

emperor of Ethiopia, who was a prominent figure in the Pan-African movement.

A Rastafarian (not "Rastafari") is a member of the movement/religion that regards

Ras Tafari as God.

Thanks for playing.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

P.S. You should read what I wrote AGAIN.

I said Rastafarians identify with the ancient Hebrews of the Bible, not with "Zionists".

You're the one who keeps bringing "zee Zionists" into each and every discussion.

ROFL. Hard ears pickney walk two times.

A ramp yuh a ramp, but (as I said before) you neva know seh who yuh a ramp wid. LOL do you even know any Rasta in real life ? (and mi nuh chat bout yuh pop dung Hilltop Youth white dread wannabes.)

You claim I keep bringing Zionism into "each and every discussion" ????? Well let's just see about that. Including this one, I have a total of 4389 posts. I just did a little search of my post history with key words "Zionist," "Zionists," or "Zionism" -- and results were a GRAND TOTAL of *55* (including this one) since April 5 2006 (which is as far as the archive goes back.) That's just *55* of a total of 4389 posts. As usual, you're full of it.

However, *this* thread is about the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, isn't it ? And Zionism absolutely plays a major role in that conflict -- so why are you crying about it being mentioned here ? Seem like the subject a bun yuh.

*You* are the one who brought up the tune "Israelites" in this thread -- the second time you've mentioned it in threads about Palestinians/Israel (as if it had anything at all to do with what Modern Israel is doing to Palestinians in their own land. ) So you were begging for some schooling on what this song is actually about, and what Rasta believes, and why it ain't about Zionism at all.

You came back with something about "Rasta identifies with ancient Hebrews." I answered you again -- that Rasta see themselves AS the true Israelites (not an "equivalent" to them. They see the Biblical story as THEIR story.) And then I told you again that Rasta does not support colonialism, oppression, dispossesion of indigenous peoples, etc.

A mad it a maaaaad yuh. And you now return to fling up more raaaaaass about that which you do not know:

And if you want to be pedantic, Rasta is short for Rastafarian, not "Rastafari".

Rastafari is not a word. Ras Tafari is the given name of Ras Tafari Makonnen,

emperor of Ethiopia, who was a prominent figure in the Pan-African movement.

A Rastafarian (not "Rastafari") is a member of the movement/religion that regards

Ras Tafari as God.

Thanks for playing.

bwahahhahhahhahhhhaaaaa bout "Rastafari is not a word".... LMBCAO at you

Dude. Seriously. Get a clue before you post again on this subject, or yuh fi get kick up a next time. The term most certainly IS *Rastafari* or *Rastafari Movement* -- not your dibby dibby "Rastafarian," which is a term invented by Western academia and is considered quite insulting and/or ignorant by most Rasta. I gave you a tip when I told you Rasta ain't about ism schism, but you didn't take the hint.

You can look all of this UP. LOL "Rastafari" has more than twice the matches that "Rastafarian" has...

Even pore ole Wikipedia know it betta dan yuh:

Rastafari say that they reject "-isms". They see a wide range of "isms and schisms" in modern society and want no part in them, for example communism and capitalism. They especially reject the word Rastafarianism, because they see themselves as having transcended "isms and schisms". This has created some conflict between Rastas and some members of the academic community studying the Rastafari phenomenon, who insist on calling this religious belief Rastafarianism, in spite of the disapproval this generates within the Rastafari movement. Nevertheless, the practice continues among some scholars, likely because it fits their academic standards of use. However, the study of Rasta using its own terms has occurred and may be gaining acceptance. Most Rastas think that academic analysis is unnecessary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rastafari_movement#Language

Even still better yet, ask a REAL Rasta -- gwaan link up ca nuff a dem a par ova yahso inna NYC.

Also, Ras Tafari is *not* "the given name" of Tafari Makonnen. "Ras" is a title in Amharic -- similar to "Lord" or "Duke." The given name (first and last name) was "Tafari Makonnen." You can look this up as well (or if you actually knew any REAL Rasta -- ask them. They know their history well and they will tell you exactly how I'm telling you.)

Furthermore, this individual you mention was not merely some "prominent figure in the Pan-African movement" -- he was His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I of Ethiopia (Haile Selassie I being the name Ras Tafari Makonnen took upon his coronation, meaning "Power of the Trinity") and he is considered God incarnate (JAH Rastafari) by most Rasta.

In proper usage, "Rasta" can refer to either the religion or the person who follows it. "A Rasta" (not "a Rastafarian") is a follower of Rastafari (not "Rastafarianism.") Look it UP. (Or ask a real Rasta.)

A flop yuh a flop. Leggo di endz.

Now if you really want to discuss further details about reggae and/or Rastafari, I'm well qualified to teach you much more about the subject. But if that is the case, then start a new thread and stop trying to derail this one.

Now..... back to topic.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Unlike many blind supporters of Israel, Jimmy Carter and Desmond Tutu have both actually been to Palestine, and witnessed for themselves what is going on there.

So have I.

Oh please. Your so-called "experience" in Palestine seems to have consisted of visiting the illegal Jewish settlements in the West Bank and Gaza. In fact, you already bragged on this very site about how "green" the lawns looked in the settlements (with the water they steal and waste in a very arid climate) and you even had the shameless arrogance to dare to compare them to all the "dusty" Palestinian towns under Israeli occupation (which of course are forced to live on rationed water 1/5 the amount of what the Israeli settlers take.)

If I'm wrong, please tell me about your holiday trips to Jenin or Nablus or Ramallah....

Unlike you, Jimmy Carter and Desmond Tutu actually got off the official Zionist fun bus and saw the reality that you don't even want to acknowledge:

Stats

Palestinians killed by Israeli army: 4485

Israelis killed by Palestinians: 1031

Palestinian children killed by the Israel army: 878

Israeli children killed by Palestinians: 119

Palestinian homes bulldozed by Israeli: 5769

Israeli homes bulldozed by Palestinians: 0

Palestinians made homeless by Israel: 17,752

Israelis made homeless by Palestinians: 0

Palestinians held prisoner by Israel: 8428

Israelis held prisoner by Palestinians: 1

Source: Btselem

Who's the terrorist ? Wellllllllllll it's pretty obvious....

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

More bully talk, and detached from reality. The Apartheid regime in South Africa used to say the same kinds of things... and look what happened....

Different demographics. South Africa was 75% black and only 13% white. Israel is still more

than 50% Jewish, even if you count all of Palestine. Also, the white South Africans were not

the Chosen People and didn't rule the world, which put them at a major disadvantage.

Demographics, you say ? Israel has certainly enjoyed its artificially created demographics, which it made possible by ethnically cleansing as many native Palestinians as it could, and then importing as many Jews as it could convince from around the world to come there to take the Palestinians' place (including quite a few of rather dubious "Jewishness"... but Israeli figures even imported fake Jews are preferable to real native Palestinians.)

Anyway, let's crunch the numbers here.

2006 Official Israeli Census

Israeli Jews 5,394,400

Israeli Arabs 1,413,300

Unaffiliated 309,900 (this number supposedly includes most of the "non-Jewish" Russian immigrants*)

Source: Wikipedia

(*Note -- the Chief Rabbinate says as many as half of the 1 million Russians imported into Israel are not Jewish. This would of course reduce the "official" number of Israeli Jews by several hundred thousand.)

Now let's look at the West Bank and Gaza:

June 2007 estimate of Palestinian population:

West Bank 2,535,927

Gaza 1,482,405

Source: Wikipedia

Time for some math. Hmmmmm.... well this adds up to a total of 5,431,632 Arabs, if you count all of Palestine. So it doesn't add up to what you said -- in fact, according to these figures, Arabs are *already* slightly outnumbering the official count of Jews in the area. And at projected birthrates, that difference is going to be much greater in 20-25 years.

Hahahaha even with ethnically cleansing all the Palestinians it could, doing everything it can to make life so miserable for the remaining Palestinians that they'll be induced to leave, and then scouring the planet for every person who claimed to have a Jewish grandmother to import -- even bringing in Peruvians and taking half a million Russians who aren't even Jewish -- even then, with its completely artifically created "Jewish majority," Israel still can't fight the reality of demographics. Not for much longer.

Hence the current hysteria of Zionists in the Israeli government... because howwwwwww can Israel have a "democracy" unless it has a Jewish majority ??? OMG the possibility that the majority of the people in a country won't be of the preferred religion/ethnicity.... ohhhhh noez.....

This is all part of the inherent racism of Zionist ideology, which I'll come back to in a later response (when I get to Mawilson's request for "proof" that Israel has institutionalized racism against its Arab citizens, including restrictions on where most Arabs can or can't live )

The United States and Israel were the last nations to support Apartheid South Africa. Any guesses on who'll be the last to support Apartheid Israel ?

[mawilson 2,133]

Now if you really want to discuss further details about reggae and/or Rastafari, I'm well qualified to teach you much more about the subject. But if that is the case, then start a new thread and stop trying to derail this one.

Believe what you want.

If it's not in the 20-volume Oxford English Dictionary, it's not a word.

[sandinista! 1,816]

Now if you really want to discuss further details about reggae and/or Rastafari, I'm well qualified to teach you much more about the subject. But if that is the case, then start a new thread and stop trying to derail this one.

Believe what you want.

If it's not in the 20-volume Oxford English Dictionary, it's not a word.

are you making another joke? i can never tell.

[Risto 0]

Hahahaha even with ethnically cleansing all the Palestinians it could, doing everything it can to make life so miserable for the remaining Palestinians that they'll be induced to leave, and then scouring the planet for every person who claimed to have a Jewish grandmother to import -- even bringing in Peruvians and taking half a million Russians who aren't even Jewish --

Only ultraorthodox Jews are considering the Russian Jews as “fake” For the rest of the world they are Jews.

[SqdnGuns 21]

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Whoops missed this one, which deserves attention:

The answers are self evident.

See this story?

Gazans hear of attack, hand out sweets

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3502572,00.html

It's absolutely sick. Of course, WoM is going to dismiss it as a lie because it was printed by Ynet.

I have a whole LOT of articles I could post from Ynet that you wouldn't like one bit -- you'd be laughing at the source, too.

Hey speaking of celebrating terror attacks, did you ever hear about the "dancing Israelis" on 9/11 ? Fascinating story...

Moving on...

I wonder how you'd accept someone claiming that Jews who fled the Holocaust "chose to leave" and thus *weren't* forced out of their homes. I wonder how you'd accept someone claiming that this meant they'd abandoned their property rights. Oh wait a minute -- Israel has demanded (and gotten) billions in reparations for the losses of those victims and their families -- about $95 billion from Germany alone.

Exactly. The key word is reparations. I fully agree that Israel should pay reparations to the

families of Palestinian civilian noncombatants driven from their homes in 1946-47.

However, that's where Israel's obligations end. The Jews who fled the Holocaust do not have the

"right of return" to their former homes in Germany, why should the Palestinians have that right?

I am actually very surprised that none of our German members responded to this.

German Jews who fled the Holocaust *could* return to Germany -- after the war, there was no law preventing them from doing so. Most chose not to, perhaps understandably, and certainly some frightening bigotry against them remained. But German Jews *did* have the "right" to return, and some even did:

bucerius.haifa.ac.il/abstracts-migration.doc

http://www.bibliovault.org/BV.book.epl?BookId=4855

And it's important for you to recognize that Jews who fled the Holocaust, as well as those who returned to Germany, *did* receive reparations for their losses beginning as early as the 1950s -- or actually I should say reparations were collected by the State of Israel, the World Jewish Congress and various other organizations, who then made the decisions on how to distribute the money.

These reparations were used as a major part of the early Israeli government's revenue, comprising as much as 87.5% of the state's income in 1956. However, the way those funds were spent (and continue to be spent) is the subject of angry disputes within the Jewish community, and many victims (now quite elderly and in poor health) have complained that they received very little.

Further claims for reparations continue to be made -- against Swiss banks, individual companies (many in Germany, like BMW and Siemens,) various insurance companies, etc. To date, the German government and German banks and companies have paid more than $65 billion in reparations.

http://rac.org/advocacy/issues/issuehol/in...fm?#reparations

Yet despite its obligation to do so, Israel has stubbornly refused to pay reparations to Palestinian refugees *or* grant them their right to return to their homes. International law says they have to do one or the other -- pay them for their losses or let them come home. However, Israel's official position is that it has an obligation to do neither, and suggests that if anything, the Palestinians and their reparations and the establishment of new homes for them are all the responsibility of the international community.

Between snickers, I point out that these are Israeli sources I'm referencing (which you should have known at first glance.) You now have no leg to stand on, so you flail around and resort to calling them all "Michael Moores."

Bwaaahahahhahaaha. Actually you surprised me -- I was sure your next line would be "they're all self-hating Jews."

Self-hating American, self-hating Jews - same thing, really.

I bet I can find a whole lot of "inconsistencies" in your posts by quoting selected sentences out of context.

Where have I quoted you out of context ? You posted Karsh via Netanyahu; I commented on your source; you then claimed my sources were "Palestinian;" I laughed and said no these are Israeli sources; and now you say I quote you out of context. Please -- explain your context, then.

To say that Israel is an innocent nation is the same as saying Hamas in innocent IMO. I mean really is this about Hamas and the Israeli government or about the millions of innocent on BOTH sides suffering on a daily basis. Israel is NO better than Hamas,

If Israel was playing by the same rules as hamas, the conflict wouldn't last for more than few days.

You mean if Israel only had what Hamas has, instead of U.S.-taxpayer funded F-16 warplanes, Merkava tanks, Apache helicopter gunships, remote control drones, and various American-made state-of-the-art weaponry (not to mention nukes) ?

You mean if Israel had to fight with small arms, homemade rockets, even slingshots, from within a open-air prison, under military siege and completely surrounded by a powerfully-equipped modern army ?

If so, then I agree that you are absolutely correct -- this conflict wouldn't last for more than a few days

[Risto 0]

Yes, it is not right to fire rockets at Israeli civilians. It is also not right to continue occupation. President Bush even said two weeks ago while he was in the Middle East that Israel must end occupation of Arab lands. Former President Jimmy Carter said the same thing as well.

Newsflash - Israel is no longer occupying Gaza!

You must have missed the big news of the year 2005:

Israel completes Gaza withdrawal

You should really pay more attention to the subject you claim to know so much about.

The rockets that rain down on Sderot and the Western Negev are Hamas' way of saying "thanks"

for the end of Israel's "occupation" of Gaza.

No matter how much we give them they always thank us with rockets. Sad.

Your comment is disrespecful. Please refrain frmo making any comment that is disrepectful. Don't think, you know more than everyone. According to your logic, even President Bush also must have missed that Israel left Gaza, because he also said two weeks ago that "Israel must ond occupation of Arab lands." I follow the Middle East affairs very extensively. Surely, I know, Israel left Gaza while Ariel Sharon was in power. I am sure you know the term is "occupation of Arab lands" or you want to ignore that occupation does not exist? How about President Bush's statement two weeks ago when he said during his Middle East trip that "Israel must end occupation of Arab lands." Do you think, President Bush does not know that Israel left Gaza? Israel still occupies West Bank and continues to buld settlements. I am sure, you know what Arab lands are still occupied by Israel. There is a peace proposal by Arab League initiated by then Crown Prince Abdullah (now King) that was declared in Arab League's 2002 Beirut conference that all Arab countries will normalize relationship with Israel, if Israel gives up all occupied Arab lands and goes back to pre 1967 border. To the best of my knowledge, Arab League still supports this peace plan. President Carter (the only US President so far who was able to broker a peace deal, between Israel and Egypt) said, "Israel has a choice to make, does it want to leave in peace with its Arab neighbors or continue the occupation and continue to build new settlements" (which is illeagal under UN resolution, under Bush's road map).

Israel gave back Sinai Peninsula to Egypt and Egyptians are not firing any rockets into Israel.

Gaza belongs to Egypt too but Anuar Sadad was smart to refuse it.