Hamas shut off the power to Palestine

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Besides that you can't create a LAWFUL state inside someone elses country!

I can not agree more about this

Then why are you suggesting that Palestine created a state inside Jordan?

My previous post was regarding creation of palestinian state inside Israel

Exactly and you contradicted yourself. If Palestine can create a Lawful state in Jordan or any other Arab country then they should be able to create one in Israel! Anyway they don't want to "create" a state in Israel, they want it to be REINSTATED as they were there before the state of Israel was created!

Risto does good job copying and pasting. So it is not surprising to see contradiction in Risto's posts. These members have proven their hatred against Arabs and Muslims.

Hatred against terrorists. sheesh.

[sandinista! 1,816]

Besides that you can't create a LAWFUL state inside someone elses country!

I can not agree more about this

Then why are you suggesting that Palestine created a state inside Jordan?

My previous post was regarding creation of palestinian state inside Israel

Exactly and you contradicted yourself. If Palestine can create a Lawful state in Jordan or any other Arab country then they should be able to create one in Israel! Anyway they don't want to "create" a state in Israel, they want it to be REINSTATED as they were there before the state of Israel was created!

Risto does good job copying and pasting. So it is not surprising to see contradiction in Risto's posts. These members have proven their hatred against Arabs and Muslims.

Hatred against terrorists. sheesh.

where's your "sheesh" for when gary posted the completely baseless and asinine claim that simple_male had "proved his hatred for Jews"?

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

cuz that statement is true. sheesh

[simple_male 1]

cuz that statement is true. sheesh

This is true for people like you when your logics make no sense you accuse people that they have proven their hatred against Jews that they are anti semite. This is nothing new. In your posts, you have been totally disrespectful toward Arabs and Muslims, while we are talking about finding a just solutions for Arab and Jews. I think, both Jews and Arabs are same human beings. Even you suggested that Palestinians should move to other Arab lands, since they have vast lands. History is important to you when you support Jews' right (You guys said they lived there 2,00 years ago). Fine. But history is irrelevant to you when it comes to Palestinians' right (You guys said 60 years have been passed, so forget about it). What a double standard!

If my points have proven my hatred for Jews, then President Jimmy Carter, President Bush, Tony Blair, Nelson Mandela, any world leaders, anyone spports two state solution also have proven their hatred against Jews. Talking about Palestinian people's suffering does not mean supporting Hamas, talking about Israel's bad policies does not mean talking against Judaism, talking about Saudi Govt's bad behaviors does not mean talking against Islam.

Edited February 18, 2008 by simple_male

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

cuz that statement is true. sheesh

This is true for people like you when your logics make no sense you accuse people that they have proven their hatred against Jews that they are anti semite. This is nothing new. In your posts, you have been totally disrespectful toward Arabs and Muslims, while we are talking about finding a just solutions for Arab and Jews. I think, both Jews and Arabs are same human beings. Even you suggested that Palestinians should move to other Arab lands, since they have vast lands. History is important to you when you support Jews' right (You guys said they lived there 2,00 years ago). Fine. But history is irrelevant to you when it comes to Palestinians' right (You guys said 60 years have been passed, so forget about it). What a double standard!

If my points have proven my hatred for Jews, then President Jimmy Carter, President Bush, Tony Blair, Nelson Mandela, any world leaders, anyone spports two state solution also have proven their hatred against Jews. Talking about Palestinian people's suffering does not mean supporting Hamas, talking about Israel's bad policies does not mean talking against Judaism, talking about Saudi Govt's bad behaviors does not mean talking against Islam.

try reading my posts next time. I have a problem with terrorists (and those who vote for them) not Muslims.

[Risto 0]

I think that's a little strong. Lets be honest here - Risto (and his previous incarnation - Hristo, whose account was previously deleted by VJ management) is a troll who's singular purpose of existence seems to be to post inflammatory content relating to Muslims and the Israel-Palestine debate.

Why the established member behind the Risto/Hristo accounts can't stand behind those comments under their own name, is anyone's guess. It does seem a little cowardly.

I’ll consider courageous step changing my ID to “Number 7”

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I’ll consider courageous step changing my ID to “Number 7”

Or you could just off.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I’ll consider courageous step changing my ID to “Number 7”

Or you could just off.

Risto-

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

People with "cut and paste" accounts are just spineless jerks. And trolls to boot.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Hey leave trolls out of this!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Hey leave trolls out of this!

Ogres then

[simple_male 1]

cuz that statement is true. sheesh

This is true for people like you when your logics make no sense you accuse people that they have proven their hatred against Jews that they are anti semite. This is nothing new. In your posts, you have been totally disrespectful toward Arabs and Muslims, while we are talking about finding a just solutions for Arab and Jews. I think, both Jews and Arabs are same human beings. Even you suggested that Palestinians should move to other Arab lands, since they have vast lands. History is important to you when you support Jews' right (You guys said they lived there 2,00 years ago). Fine. But history is irrelevant to you when it comes to Palestinians' right (You guys said 60 years have been passed, so forget about it). What a double standard!

If my points have proven my hatred for Jews, then President Jimmy Carter, President Bush, Tony Blair, Nelson Mandela, any world leaders, anyone spports two state solution also have proven their hatred against Jews. Talking about Palestinian people's suffering does not mean supporting Hamas, talking about Israel's bad policies does not mean talking against Judaism, talking about Saudi Govt's bad behaviors does not mean talking against Islam.

try reading my posts next time. I have a problem with terrorists (and those who vote for them) not Muslims.

I will read your posts, as I do now. We should condemn all terrorist acts including Hamas' firing rockets, suicide bombings, and former prime minister Begin and Shamir's involvement with terrorism, their activities under that organization Irgun. Terrorist acts performed by either Arabs, Jews, or anyone should be condemned no matter when it happened and when it will happen.

One time you quoted, "Why did Egypt seal the border with Gaza? That's no way to treat your Muslim brothers." I really didn't understand what was the point of saying "That's no way to treat your Muslim brothers." I ask you that you make friends with Muslims, Arabs (if you have not met any Muslims, Arabs yet), talk to them to know them better. There are many of them in USA pretty much everywhere. There is no better way of understanding each other than to engage in dialogues.

About Risto and Hristo: I heard the ID, Hristo was deleted by the VJ Management. Now, here is Risto ID. I also heard their language style (attacking Arabs and Muslims) are pretty similar. I know pretty well that "Hristo" is a Bulgarian name (I remember legendary Bulgarian footballer/soccer player Hristo Stoichkov, top scorer of world cup 1994) and interestingly the current Risto's country profile is Bulgaria. So I can see a trend.

Edited February 19, 2008 by simple_male

[Risto 0]

cuz that statement is true. sheesh

This is true for people like you when your logics make no sense you accuse people that they have proven their hatred against Jews that they are anti semite. This is nothing new. In your posts, you have been totally disrespectful toward Arabs and Muslims, while we are talking about finding a just solutions for Arab and Jews. I think, both Jews and Arabs are same human beings. Even you suggested that Palestinians should move to other Arab lands, since they have vast lands. History is important to you when you support Jews' right (You guys said they lived there 2,00 years ago). Fine. But history is irrelevant to you when it comes to Palestinians' right (You guys said 60 years have been passed, so forget about it). What a double standard!

If my points have proven my hatred for Jews, then President Jimmy Carter, President Bush, Tony Blair, Nelson Mandela, any world leaders, anyone spports two state solution also have proven their hatred against Jews. Talking about Palestinian people's suffering does not mean supporting Hamas, talking about Israel's bad policies does not mean talking against Judaism, talking about Saudi Govt's bad behaviors does not mean talking against Islam.

try reading my posts next time. I have a problem with terrorists (and those who vote for them) not Muslims.

I will read your posts, as I do now. We should condemn all terrorist acts including Hamas' firing rockets, suicide bombings, and former prime minister Begin and Shamir's involvement with terrorism, their activities under that organization Irgun. Terrorist acts performed by either Arabs, Jews, or anyone should be condemned no matter when it happened and when it will happen.

One time you quoted, "Why did Egypt seal the border with Gaza? That's no way to treat your Muslim brothers." I really didn't understand what was the point of bring "That's no way to treat your Muslim brothers." I ask you that you make friends with Muslims (if you have not met any Muslims), talk to them to know them better. There are Muslims in USA pretty much everywhere. There is no better way of understanding each other than to engage in dialogues.

About Risto or Hristo: I heard the ID, Hristo was deleted by the VJ Management. Now, here is Risto ID. I also heard their language style (attacking Arabs and Muslims) are pretty similar. I know pretty well that "Hristo" is a Bulgarian name (I remember legendary Bulgarian footballer/soccer player Hristo Stoichkov, top scorer of world cup 1994) and interestingly the current Risto's country profile is Bulgaria. So I can see a trend.

You won’t see significant condemnation for muslim terrorism made by muslims. In contrary many babies in the arab world were named Osama after 9/11.

[simple_male 1]

cuz that statement is true. sheesh

This is true for people like you when your logics make no sense you accuse people that they have proven their hatred against Jews that they are anti semite. This is nothing new. In your posts, you have been totally disrespectful toward Arabs and Muslims, while we are talking about finding a just solutions for Arab and Jews. I think, both Jews and Arabs are same human beings. Even you suggested that Palestinians should move to other Arab lands, since they have vast lands. History is important to you when you support Jews' right (You guys said they lived there 2,00 years ago). Fine. But history is irrelevant to you when it comes to Palestinians' right (You guys said 60 years have been passed, so forget about it). What a double standard!

If my points have proven my hatred for Jews, then President Jimmy Carter, President Bush, Tony Blair, Nelson Mandela, any world leaders, anyone spports two state solution also have proven their hatred against Jews. Talking about Palestinian people's suffering does not mean supporting Hamas, talking about Israel's bad policies does not mean talking against Judaism, talking about Saudi Govt's bad behaviors does not mean talking against Islam.

try reading my posts next time. I have a problem with terrorists (and those who vote for them) not Muslims.

I will read your posts, as I do now. We should condemn all terrorist acts including Hamas' firing rockets, suicide bombings, and former prime minister Begin and Shamir's involvement with terrorism, their activities under that organization Irgun. Terrorist acts performed by either Arabs, Jews, or anyone should be condemned no matter when it happened and when it will happen.

One time you quoted, "Why did Egypt seal the border with Gaza? That's no way to treat your Muslim brothers." I really didn't understand what was the point of bring "That's no way to treat your Muslim brothers." I ask you that you make friends with Muslims (if you have not met any Muslims), talk to them to know them better. There are Muslims in USA pretty much everywhere. There is no better way of understanding each other than to engage in dialogues.

About Risto or Hristo: I heard the ID, Hristo was deleted by the VJ Management. Now, here is Risto ID. I also heard their language style (attacking Arabs and Muslims) are pretty similar. I know pretty well that "Hristo" is a Bulgarian name (I remember legendary Bulgarian footballer/soccer player Hristo Stoichkov, top scorer of world cup 1994) and interestingly the current Risto's country profile is Bulgaria. So I can see a trend.

You won’t see significant condemnation for muslim terrorism made by muslims. In contrary many babies in the arab world were named Osama after 9/11.

There you go again. All Arab and Muslim leaders, organizations do condemn it. The problem is, you don't care to read them. If someone names a baby Osama thinking of praising him, it is bad. We do not know their intention. I think, Osama is a common Arabic name. Therefore, one terrorist Osama does not make other Osamas bad. One example: one top Egyptian official (maybe deputy foreign minister or something) is Osama El Baz. One of the NPR News reporters is Jennifer Laden. Name does not mean anything, it is the actions and behavior that mean anything. Jesus also said we should judge a tree by its fruits. I am sure, lot of parents named their sons as Timothy after Oklahoma city bombing. Can anyone question them why they named their sons as Timothy? Again, if the intention is to praise Timothy McVeigh, it is bad.

I never heard any supporter of Israel condemned the Jewish terrorism performed by Irgun with whom Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir were involved.

Edited February 19, 2008 by simple_male

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Mawilson.

Sometimes I wonder how you could possibly be pro-Zionist. I know you always say that you support the State of Israel in all of its actions…. but you constantly open the absolute worst cans of worms about Zionism and Israel… can it be that you really just don’t know the ugly truth ???

Oh well…. Let’s go through this….

I agree. But why is Jordan the only Arab country to welcome the Palestinians and grant them citizenship?

However all of this doesnt matter, why should other countries have to deal with Israels mistake? Can you answer that questions without bringing up Hamas or terrorism? Can we at least discuss this topic in a humane way without dismissing Arab's as human beings?

Hmm, really. Why should Arab countries accept Arab refugees? What a crazy idea.

Israel welcomed hundreds of thousands of Jewish refugees who fled from Arab lands.

Almost 900,000 Jews have left their homes in Arab countries since 1948. Should their

descendants now demand the right of return to Iran, Iraq, Libya and Syria?

Here we have yet another example of Bizarro Zio-logic, which is of course the logic of the criminally insane.

The bottom line is: Israel doesn’t want to acknowledge its responsibility for Palestinian refugees. So its apologists keep dreaming up ever more-and-more fanciful excuses to shrug that responsibility off onto someone else.

At first, the tactic was to simply deny they existed at all (Golda Meir’s famous “There are no Palestinians.”) When this fizzled in the face of reality, Zionists shifted to a revised strategy of denying that Palestinians were actually “driven” from their homes (which Mawilson has already repeated in this thread.)

Of course all those lies have been exposed, and even the State of Israel has finally had to admit that the expulsions occurred.

So now, while mainstream Zionists have to grudgingly acknowledge that mayyyybe some Palestinians were expelled during the creation of the State of Israel, they next try to argue that it's somehow “okay” or "fair" because Arab Jews were made into "refugees" by Arab countries.

This is absurd on several levels.

First of all, not all Jews who left Arab countries were “refugees.” Zionists had been encouraging them to immigrate to Palestine for decades (long before the creation of the State of Israel.) Even your Wikipedia link confirms that *most* of the Jews who left Arab countries left during the years leading up to 1948 and during the escalating hostilities that began with the expulsions of Palestinians from their homes.

So how much of this was actual expulsion, and how much of it was encouragement from the Zionists ? This gets rather murky:

We did not want to call ourselves refugees. We came to this country before the establishment of the state, too... We had messianic aspirations; ... we wanted to see the building of the Temple... We wanted to restore our days as of old

- Knesset Speaker Yisrael Yeshayahu, May 29, 1975 (born in Yemen in 1908, emigrated to Palestine in 1929)

This talk about ‘Jewish refugees who were expelled from Arab countries’ as opposed to ‘Arab refugees who were expelled from the Land of Israel’ was grating to our journalistic ears.

For decades we were accustomed to heroic stories about the illegal immigration, about Zionist underground in Iraq, Syria, and North Africa, about longings for Zion in Yemen, about Israeli emissaries, about ‘the state-in-the-making,’ which aroused yearnings for Zion to the point where the Jews were ready to give up all their property and their past if only they could go up to Zion.

We heard about astonishing operations of ‘Magic Carpet’ (from Yemen) and ‘Operation Ezra and Nehemia’ (from Iraq) and operations of illegals (‘Egoz’) from North Africa. We knew about entire communities that were held ‘hostage’ and were only released under heavy Zionist pressure...

However, because of the political struggle in which Israel is involved, it appears to be more convenient, as a persuasive argument, to portray the nearly one million Jews who arrived in Israel upon the state’s establishment as refugees who were compelled by force to leave their places of habitation. In other words: that the entire aliyah was simply the absorption of deportees.

- Yated Ne'eman newspaper, Dec. 31, 1993

It should be glaringly obvious, but let me spell it out for you: Israel has absolutely *no right* to use property claims of Jewish refugees from Arab lands and try to link them to the issue of negotiation over Palestinian claims. Palestinians don’t represent the governments of Morocco or Egypt or Iraq, etc. Palestinians were not responsible for Jews leaving Arab countries (no matter what the reason.) And Palestinian property is not the same thing as property in Morocco or Egypt or Iraq. Israel has no right to demand that property belonging to Palestinians be somehow "exchanged" for property belonging to Jews in other Arab lands.

This is actually a very revealing insight into Zionist ideology and its utterly racist view of the world. Zionists believe that Israel represents the political (and property) rights of all Jews, whether they live in Israel or not. And in the same way, Zionists believe all Arabs/Muslims may be lumped together as one political entity, and different Arab/Muslim groups may be freely interchanged for one another. Depending on what's convenient for the Zionist argument, "the Palestinians" may be considered to represent "the Arabs" as a whole, or "the Arabs" may be considered to mean the same thing as "the Palestinians."

In fact, all of Zionist ideology is based on racism and ethnic cleansing – the idea that Palestinian Arabs must be “transferred” out of Palestine into other lands, so that they may be “replaced” with Jews. This ideology has been adopted since the first Zionist Congress in 1897, and has been repeated over and over by such leaders as Chaim Weizmann, Theodor Herzl, David Ben Gurion, Menachem Begin and many more.

As for Arab countries absorbing Palestinian refugees – most of the burden has fallen on Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt, countries that already had impoverished economies, and unlike Israel, were not receiving $3-5 billion a year in aid from the U.S. The majority of these refugees wish to go back home to their country of origin, and that is their right. Even 60 and 40 years later.

This is why Zionism will ultimately fail – its inherent injustice. Palestinians fight to regain what is rightfully theirs – unlike the Israeli terrorists, who fight to usurp lands of other people.

Next up: Mawilson again, and his claim that the Palestinian Arab citizens of Israel are "fully assimilated" into its society.