Hamas shut off the power to Palestine

[Ban Hammer 13,443]

But there WERE no rockets until 2001 -- more than 34 years after Israel's illegal occupation of the West Bank and Gaza began.

hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you are wrong......

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

But there WERE no rockets until 2001 -- more than 34 years after Israel's illegal occupation of the West Bank and Gaza began.

hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you are wrong......

yup

[simple_male 1]

But there WERE no rockets until 2001 -- more than 34 years after Israel's illegal occupation of the West Bank and Gaza began.

hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you are wrong......

yup

LuckyStrike, what can't you answer some questions that I asked you?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

this thread reeks from all the red herrings strewn about.

It's like

[kerewin21 2]

Here's an idea.... stop occupying Palestinian land and stop oppressing Palestinian civilians -- stop murdering, kidnapping, assaulting and torturing them, and stop stealing their property. Sheesh.

Here's another idea. Stop indiscriminately launching rockets at Israelis, stop destroying Jewish peoples' property and infrastructure, stop sending your children into Israel with the sole purpose of blowing themselves up and taking as many people as possible with them, stop hiding your terrorists behind women and children and then blaming the Israelis when you intentionally placed them in harm's way.

Edited to add: I agree that there are horrible things happening from both sides. But seriously, do you really think it's as simple as you state it?

Edited February 6, 2008 by kerewin21

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Next in the queue: Mawilson.

Yes, it is not right to fire rockets at Israeli civilians. It is also not right to continue occupation. President Bush even said two weeks ago while he was in the Middle East that Israel must end occupation of Arab lands. Former President Jimmy Carter said the same thing as well.

Newsflash - Israel is no longer occupying Gaza!

You must have missed the big news of the year 2005:

Israel completes Gaza withdrawal

You should really pay more attention to the subject you claim to know so much about.

The rockets that rain down on Sderot and the Western Negev are Hamas' way of saying "thanks"

for the end of Israel's "occupation" of Gaza.

Since the summer of 2005, when Israel withdrew its illegal settlers and its occupation soldiers who protected them from *inside* Gaza's territory, Israel has been making this same claim -- that it's no longer responsible for the dire conditions in Gaza because it was "no longer occupying" the territory.

But this is a big fat lie.

Newsflash to YOU, Mawilson: international law defines occupation in the context of an outside power controlling the borders and territory.

And Israel continues to control the Gaza strip's borders and all access to it, just as it did before the Hamas victory in 2006 (except for a few days over the past few weeks, when Palestinians blasted out a piece of the wall Israel had built to seal their cage on the Egypt border. But that's now been re-sealed.)

Israel controls Gaza's air space, coastal waters, economy, electricity - even its population registry ! Yes, Israel actually insists on deciding who is considered a Palestinian, and who isn't....

So Gaza remains occupied -- and that's even aside from Israel's constant military attacks, assassinations, and arrest raids.

What Israel actually did with its so-called "withdrawal" was move its illegal settlers and its occupation soldiers to a convenient safe place, away from the line of fire, in order to give the IDF plenty of elbow room to slaughter the captive Palestinians with heavy artillery, without any worries about hitting civilians (well.... *Israeli* civilians, that is.) Like shooting fish in a barrel. John Dugard, the UN's special rapporteur on human rights in the occupied territories, said Israel had turned Gaza into a "prison," the key to which Israel had "thrown away."

Again, under international law, as long as Israel controls Gaza's borders, airspace and sea coast, Israel *is* an occupying power and therefore responsible for ensuring that the people of Gaza receive food, medicine and basic supplies.

The fact that militants fire rockets at Israel does not excuse Israel from its obligation to the civilian population that it insists on controlling.

Now, as for the "rain of rockets" on Sderot -- well, that's nothing compared to what Israel has rained on Gaza:

September 2005 - Nov 2006

Rockets fired into Israel: 1700

Artillery shells fired by Israel into Gaza: 15,000

Source: Human Rights Watch

Total killed:

Israelis killed by Qassams fired from Gaza: 12 since 2001

Palestinians in Gaza killed by IDF artillery shells: 810 in just the past 2 years

Now let's look specifically at the killing of children -- I give both the total figure throughout Israel/Palestine, and then in parentheses specifically the Gaza-related deaths:

2004 (before Hamas elected)

Israeli children killed: 8 (including 4 living in the illegal Gaza settlement of Gush Katif, and 3 killed by a Qassam in Sderot)

Palestinian children killed: 188 (including 146 in Gaza)

2005 (before Hamas elected)

Israeli children killed: 6 (including 1 by a Qassam rocket)

Palestinian children killed 56 (including 33 in Gaza)

2006 (after Hamas swept to power)

Israeli children killed: 2 (1 was an Israeli Arab killed near Nahal Oz by an unexploded IDF shell)

Palestinian children killed: 139 (including 124 in Gaza)

2007

Israeli children killed: 1 -- this victim was an 11-year-old Bedouin Arab Israeli citizen from Beersheva, killed by IDF gunfire to the head and pelvis while picking figs at his brother's home

Palestinian children killed 59 (including 37 in Gaza)

2008 (so far)

Palestinian children killed: 3 (all in Gaza)

Israeli children killed: 0

http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/GazaStrip..._2007_11_28.pdf

http://rememberthesechildren.org/remember2007.html (This link will give you the name and circumstances of death of every single child killed in the conflict.)

Nearly 70 years ago, in a small eastern European city, an oppressed and occupied people were under siege, living under atrocious and brutal conditions, lacking food, medicine, electricity, water, and slowly being strangled in the hope they would just disappear.

Warsaw Ghetto 1941 - Gaza 2008.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

But there WERE no rockets until 2001 -- more than 34 years after Israel's illegal occupation of the West Bank and Gaza began.

hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you are wrong......

yup

LuckyStrike, what can't you answer some questions that I asked you?

The answers are self evident.

See this story?

Gazans hear of attack, hand out sweets

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3502572,00.html

Here's an idea.... stop occupying Palestinian land and stop oppressing Palestinian civilians -- stop murdering, kidnapping, assaulting and torturing them, and stop stealing their property. Sheesh.

Here's another idea. Stop indiscriminately launching rockets at Israelis, stop destroying Jewish peoples' property and infrastructure, stop sending your children into Israel with the sole purpose of blowing themselves up and taking as many people as possible with them, stop hiding your terrorists behind women and children and then blaming the Israelis when you intentionally placed them in harm's way.

Edited to add: I agree that there are horrible things happening from both sides. But seriously, do you really think it's as simple as you state it?

Great points.

[mawilson 2,133]

The answers are self evident.

See this story?

Gazans hear of attack, hand out sweets

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3502572,00.html

It's absolutely sick.

Of course, WoM is going to dismiss it as a lie because it was printed by Ynet.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

For the record I'm not bumping this thread. I just post when it gets on the front page.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

No matter how much we give them they always thank us with rockets. Sad.

Who's "we" and what did "we" give "them" ?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

It's more disrespectful to fire rockets in the hope of killing children. Get the memo?

My words are disrespectful but terrorism is not?

That's about as accurate as saying Israel fires artillery shells into Gaza "in the hopes of killing children."

[simple_male 1]

LuckyStrike: You are great at avoiding. I asked you few simple questions and yet you avoid answering them. You can answer 'yes' or 'no.' It should be very simple. I have answered what you asked me:

My questions to you are:

1. Do you think Israeli occupation of Arab lands is a problem?

2. Do you think Israeli should continue expanding settlement (Bush's Road map, international law clearly ask to stop settlement activities) in the occupied land?

3. Do you think British were right when leaders like Shamir and Begin were wanted for terrorist activities?

I did answer you that I don't support firing rockets and any terrorist activities no matter who does it (Arab, Israeli, Muslims, Christians, Jews, etc).

Edited February 8, 2008 by simple_male

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

LuckyStrike: You are great at avoiding. I asked you few simple questions and yet you avoid answering them. You can answer 'yes' or 'no.' It should be very simple. I have answered what you asked me:

My questions to you are:

1. Do you think Israeli occupation of Arab lands is a problem?

2. Do you think Israeli should continue expanding settlement (Bush's Road map, international law clearly ask to stop settlement activities) in the occupied land?

3. Do you think British were right when leaders like Shamir and Begin were wanted for terrorist activities?

I did answer you that I don't support firing rockets and any terrorist activities no matter who does it (Arab, Israeli, Muslims, Christians, Jews, etc).

The 600lb gorilla in the room

[HLM 1]

simple male and wifey of muhammed....

stop wasting ur time with them... seriously the facts are out there and they re documented and recorded... if they want to know them trust me they will.... but some ppl do enjoy being blind and thats ok.... its their problem not urs so stop feeling like u need to correct them... ur time is more precious than that.....

[HLM 1]

Here's an idea.... stop occupying Palestinian land and stop oppressing Palestinian civilians -- stop murdering, kidnapping, assaulting and torturing them, and stop stealing their property. Sheesh.

Here's another idea. Stop indiscriminately launching rockets at Israelis, stop destroying Jewish peoples' property and infrastructure, stop sending your children into Israel with the sole purpose of blowing themselves up and taking as many people as possible with them, stop hiding your terrorists behind women and children and then blaming the Israelis when you intentionally placed them in harm's way.

Edited to add: I agree that there are horrible things happening from both sides. But seriously, do you really think it's as simple as you state it?

just for the record... they didnt start "defending themselves" until the israelies started attacking them......TO EVERY ACTION THERES A REACTION.... would love to see what wd u do if someone bashed into ur house pulled u from your hair out side and calls u a terrorist when u try to claim whats originally urs back?!??! hmmmm yessss never thought of it that way have u!!!! lol