Hamas shut off the power to Palestine

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

They seem to ignore the fact that Israeli occupation of Arab land does not exist.

When was the last time a Jew strapped on a bomb and blew themselves up in a Palestinian market in protest?

Why is that so important to you?

[simple_male 1]

They seem to ignore the fact that Israeli occupation of Arab land does not exist.

When was the last time a Jew strapped on a bomb and blew themselves up in a Palestinian market in protest?

Is there any country like Israel which has a long history of electing terrorists as their Prime Minister -- for instance, Menachem Begin, and Yitzhak Shamir, and Ariel Sharon? Weren't Begin and Shamir wanted by the British for terrorism?

Please read what Ehud Barak said once. Start the quote from BBC News.

"Israeli opposition leader condemned

The Israeli opposition leader, Ehud Barak, has been defending himself against widespread condemnation of a remark that if he were a Palestinian, he would have joined a terrorist organisation.

The comment -- made by Mr Barak in reply to a question during a television interview -- was widely criticised in the Israeli media; one government minister claimed he was giving legitimacy to Palestinian attacks on Jews.

Mr Barak now says the question was unfair, and has insisted that the struggle to create the Jewish state half a century ago was completely different to the position now facing the Palestinians.

Correspondents say the row has raised questions about the political judgement of Mr Barak, a former army chief of staff who entered politics three years ago."

End quote. Please read the following link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/62714.stm

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

They seem to ignore the fact that Israeli occupation of Arab land does not exist.

When was the last time a Jew strapped on a bomb and blew themselves up in a Palestinian market in protest?

Why is that so important to you?

I don't fear Israel but I do fear Hamas. Just giving an example.

[simple_male 1]

They seem to ignore the fact that Israeli occupation of Arab land does not exist.

When was the last time a Jew strapped on a bomb and blew themselves up in a Palestinian market in protest?

Why is that so important to you?

I don't fear Israel but I do fear Hamas. Just giving an example.

So do you think, Israeli occupation of the Arab land is a problem? I am making one thing clear, I don't support Hamas' firing rockets into Israel. What do you think about the remarks of Ehud Barak that I shared here in my last post from BBC website?

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

So do you think, Israeli occupation of the Arab land is a problem? I am making one thing clear, I don't support Hamas' firing rockets into Israel. What do you think about the remarks of Ehud Barak that I shared here in my last post from BBC website?

There are 'words' and actual 'terrorism'. How do you feel about Palestinians strapping bombs to their backs and blowing themselves up in markets?

[simple_male 1]

So do you think, Israeli occupation of the Arab land is a problem? I am making one thing clear, I don't support Hamas' firing rockets into Israel. What do you think about the remarks of Ehud Barak that I shared here in my last post from BBC website?

There are 'words' and actual 'terrorism'. How do you feel about Palestinians strapping bombs to their backs and blowing themselves up in markets?

I thought I have made myself clear. Didn't I say no religion support terrorism? I don't support anyone strapping bombs to his/her backs and blowing himself/herself up. I also don't support Israeli occupation of Arab lands and their settlement activities in the occupied lands which are illegal in Bush's road map and UN resolutions. However, you did not answer my question, do you think, Israeli occupation of Arab lands is a problem? Do you think, building settlement (Bush road map demands that Settlement stop) in the occupied lands is right thing to do?

Sure, Ehud Barak's comments were 'words,' but at least, for a moment, he felt the desperation of Palestinians, that is why he said "if he were a Palestinian, he would have joined a terrorist organization."

What do you say about Begin and Shamir who were wanted by the British for terrorism? A terrorist is a terrorist regardless of his/her faith, race.

Edited February 4, 2008 by simple_male

[HLM 1]

u dont need bombs strapped around your waiste to be a terrorist!!!! u can be a terrorist with full military equipment as well..... unless u dont even understand what the term "terrorism" means!!?!?!.....u can use missles .. rockets... run over ppl with tanks... caterpillers to destroy their homes u know....im so sure u do! lol

[Nagishkaw 510]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080204/ap_on_...Dpw5PtDOTFvaA8F

By LAURIE COPANS, Associated Press Writer

1 hour, 50 minutes ago

JERUSALEM - A suicide bomber on Monday blew himself up in the southern town that houses Israel's secretive nuclear reactor, killing at least three other people and wounding five, Israeli rescue officials said.

Police said there were two attackers, though only one managed to detonate his explosives belt, but it was not immediately clear whether the Dimona nuclear reactor was their target. The blast, the first suicide attack in Israel in more than a year, took place in an industrial area about six miles from the reactor site.

"We heard a large explosion and people started to run. I saw pieces of flesh flying in the air," a witness identified only by her first name, Revital, told Army Radio.

The Haaretz daily reported that the second attacker was shot dead before he could explode himself.

Southern Israel has been on alert against militant attacks since the Gaza Strip's Islamic Hamas rulers breached the border with Egypt on Jan. 23. Egypt managed to reseal the border only on Sunday.

The breach made Israel's Negev desert, where Dimona is located, more vulnerable to penetration by Palestinian militants who could enter through Egypt's Sinai desert. Dimona is about 40 miles northeast of the porous Egyptian border. Last week, Israel closed a number of popular hiking areas in the south for fear of militant attacks.

There was no immediate claim of responsibility for Monday's attack.

In Gaza, Hamas spokesman Ayman Taha said he did not know whether his group was involved but that the attack was justified. He also rejected suggestions that the bombing would hurt Hamas' chances of reopening the border with Egypt.

"The suicide bombings were there before the closures and the resistance used every opportunity to make these glorious acts," he said. "They show the Palestinians can respond to the enemy and their crimes."

The last suicide bombing in Israel occurred on Jan. 29, 2007, when a Palestinian attacker killed three Israelis at a bakery in the southern Israeli city of Eilat. Before that blast, there had been no suicide bombings in Israel for nine months, though Israel says it has foiled numerous attempts at carrying out such attacks.

After the breakdown of Israeli-Palestinian peace talks in 2000, Palestinian militants carried out dozens of suicide bombings that killed hundreds of people. Last November, peace negotiations were resumed between Israel and the moderate, West-Bank-based government of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.

[simple_male 1]

u dont need bombs strapped around your waiste to be a terrorist!!!! u can be a terrorist with full military equipment as well..... unless u dont even understand what the term "terrorism" means!!?!?!.....u can use missles .. rockets... run over ppl with tanks... caterpillers to destroy their homes u know....im so sure u do! lol

I agree what you said. For some people like LuckyStrike, they only want to see one sided story, they are so blind. I asked LuckyStrike some questions, he even does not want to answer them.

[Ban Hammer 13,445]

u dont need bombs strapped around your waiste to be a terrorist!!!! u can be a terrorist with full military equipment as well..... unless u dont even understand what the term "terrorism" means!!?!?!.....u can use missles .. rockets... run over ppl with tanks... caterpillers to destroy their homes u know....im so sure u do! lol

I agree what you said. For some people like LuckyStrike, they only want to see one sided story, they are so blind. I asked LuckyStrike some questions, he even does not want to answer them.

and how many sides are you seeing?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Next up.... Charuhans....

The following article really sums it all up very well. I am sure all those here advocating Hamas know it very well too but then .... it doesn't cost anything to live in the comfort of the US or UK, sit in front of a PC with the heat turned on and back Hamas at the cost of the common people in Gaza.

Here we go again. Nobody here has said anything about "advocating" or "backing Hamas."

And your article is completely absurd.

Israel eased the blockade on Tuesday. And on Wednesday, thousands of Palestinians flooded into Egypt after masked gunmen blasted huge holes in the border wall.

Sound familiar? It should. These kinds of flash points have been increasingly common since Hamas took control of Gaza. So have the warnings against the "collective punishment" of Gazans. And the potential solutions: There is talk, again, of an Israeli military incursion to stop the rockets that rain down on southern Israel from Gaza.

So your author thinks that masses of starving Gazans daring to break down the wall of their prison -- in order to go and buy groceries !!! -- is a "flash point" ? L.O.L.

As far as going into Gaza -- frankly, that's the very LAST thing the Israeli military wants do. The mere thought of close combat in the narrow, crowded streets of Gaza gives the IDF nightmares. Much easier to just drop missiles from an F-16 onto a 10-story apartment building and then say it was "unfortunate" that a bunch of families living there got wiped out... that's how Israel's been "handling" things, and that's how it plans to continue.

As always, Gazans look around, see how terrible conditions are, and point fingers. Many blame Israel. Or they blame the U.S. Or they blame Fatah, rival to Hamas.

If things are to improve in Gaza -- and we hope they do -- then that reflexive attitude is one of the first things that must change. Until most Gazans fix the blame for their miserable living conditions where it belongs -- on their elected leaders of Hamas -- Gaza will remain poised on the brink of crisis, sending rockets into Israel and then complaining bitterly when its foe retaliates.

What planet is this author living on ?

Gazans have been living miserably for the last 60 years, long before Hamas came to power (or even existed.)

Most of the population of Gaza are either refugees or the descendants of refugees who were driven out of their homes in 1948. Some of these families can even see their former homes and farmlands from the wretched camps they are now crowded into in Gaza. Additionally, they've had an illegal occupation imposed on them since 1967.

So Israel has been turning the screws on Gaza many decades before the first Qassam was slapped together. As a matter of fact, the first deadly rocket attack was only 4 years ago. But Israel's been occupying Gaza for 40 years. (And yes, for all intents and purposes, Israel is *still* occupying Gaza -- but more on that coming up later in this thread -- gotta save a little time and space for Mawilson....)

Despite your author's condescending attempts to blame the victims, the people of Gaza know very well what has happened to them. They know who took their land and turned them into refugees, and it sure wasn't Hamas.

They know who is to blame for their miserable living conditions. They know who keeps them caged, preventing them from traveling out -- even to Palestinian territory in the West Bank -- and this was going on long before Hamas. Gazans know who has killed some 2000 of their civilians in the last 7 years. They know who controls their borders and their territorial waters and their airspace. Gazans know who bombed their power plant, who leveled their airport, who prevents food, medicine and other supplies from reaching them. They also know who pays for Israel's weapons, and who continually shields Israel from U.N. condemnation for its war crimes. It ain't Hamas.

What Gazans also know is that conditions weren't much better before Hamas took power. In fact, that's why Palestinians voted Hamas into office in the last elections -- because since 1991, between constant Israeli interference and Fatah's own corruption, Fatah has achieved nothing for them.... in fact, their lives have gotten progressively worse and worse and worse. Years of Israel's systematic restrictions and closures have especially ground the people of Gaza into poverty -- 80 % of the population there now depends on food donations. And it ain't because of Hamas.

This really isn't all that complicated. It's quiet for quiet. If the Palestinians stop lobbing rockets into Israel, there will be no retaliation.

This is not a matter of the "cycle of violence," as bedraggled a phrase as there is in the Middle East. Israel withdrew its settlers from Gaza in 2005. That was supposed to end the "provocation" of the settlements and stop the rocket fire. But it hasn't.

Notice how effortless the author switches from referring to the perpetrators as "Hamas" (or even "militants") to "the Palestinians." Ever so casually, the author transfers responsibility for the blame to *all* the Palestinians, and then smugly rationalizes their collective punishment.

Anyway, the "quiet-for-quiet" demand is about the most ironic ever, considering the progression of this conflict. The Israeli government's idea of "quiet" is when the violence is only against Palestinians. In other words: Israelis murdering, kidnapping, and assaulting Palestinians at will, while Palestinians do nothing to retaliate -- that's "quiet." But once a retaliatory attack against Israelis occurs, well then the "quiet" has been broken. Most Americans don't even hear about what is done to Palestinians, as most American media doesn't even report it.

As I said, more to come on the subject of Israel's occupation of Gaza, and its so-called "pull-out," in my response to Mawilson.

There's also no doubt Hamas could stop the rockets. After Israel imposed its recent measures, for instance, five rockets were fired on Sunday, down from 53 in the prior two days, the Associated Press reported.

Um Charuhans.... that wasn't quite the end of the story. If you would've read the Uri Avnery article, you would have known:

The day the Gaza electricity works stopped operating, our military correspondents were overjoyed: only two Qassams were launched from the Strip. So it works! Ehud Barak is a genius!

But the day after, 17 Qassams landed, and the joy evaporated. Politicians and generals were (literally) out of their minds: one politician proposed to "act crazier than them", another proposed to "shell Gaza's urban area indiscriminately for every Qassam launched", a famous professor (who is a little bit deranged) proposed the exercise of "ultimate evil".

So Israel admits that its tactic is to punish the entire population of Gaza. Even though the IDF, supposedly the 4th most powerful military in the world, can't stop the militants from firing rockets... but apparently Israel expects impoverished Palestinian civilians to do the job. Anyway, it's clear that Israel wants ALL Gazans to suffer:

"We will not allow them to lead a pleasant life," said Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert when Israel cut off fuel supplies on January 18th, plunging Gaza into darkness. "As far as I am concerned, all of Gaza's residents can walk and have no fuel for their cars."

Ooops I'm over my quote quota.... will continue in my next post....

[simple_male 1]

u dont need bombs strapped around your waiste to be a terrorist!!!! u can be a terrorist with full military equipment as well..... unless u dont even understand what the term "terrorism" means!!?!?!.....u can use missles .. rockets... run over ppl with tanks... caterpillers to destroy their homes u know....im so sure u do! lol

I agree what you said. For some people like LuckyStrike, they only want to see one sided story, they are so blind. I asked LuckyStrike some questions, he even does not want to answer them.

and how many sides are you seeing?

I care about both sides, cuz we should work on finding a just solution for them. I asked LuckyStrike some questions, but so far, he is not answering them.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Replying to Charuhans, continued....

Next your author asks:

So why doesn't Hamas clamp down, to show it can effectively govern the territory? Unfortunately, the leaders of Hamas find it to their political and economic advantage to allow their people to suffer while they smuggle arms and money from Iran and elsewhere to continue the campaign of terror against Israel.

But this was also already addressed by Uri Avnery (I really urge you to actually read what I post before you try to respond to it -- this has already been pointed out twice already in this very thread):

What is being hidden from the embittered public is that the launching of the Qassams could be stopped tomorrow morning.

Several months ago Hamas proposed a cease-fire. It repeated the offer this week.

A cease-fire means, in the view of Hamas: the Palestinians will stop shooting Qassams and mortar shells, the Israelis will stop the incursions into Gaza, the "targeted" assassinations and the blockade.

Why doesn't our government jump at this proposal?

Simple: in order to make such a deal, we must speak with Hamas, directly or indirectly. And this is precisely what the government refuses to do.

Now, your author proceeds with more disinfo:

While Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas negotiates a peace deal with Israel, Hamas has pledged never to recognize the Jewish state. Hamas leaders have vowed not to abide by earlier agreements or renounce violence as a means to achieving their goals. With no prospect for negotiations, there's no prospect for reviving the economy and no prospect for improving people's lives. No wonder they'd rather fire rockets.

Um which Israel is Hamas supposed to recognize ? 1948 Israel, as mandated by the U.N. ? The 1967 armistice line ? The Israel that refuses to even officially demarcate its borders, and which already has hundreds of illegal settlements across the West Bank, where it has transferred nearly a half million of its own population ? It's never made clear.

More to the point, your author completely ignores the fact that Hamas has *already* offered to recognize Israel -- if it withdraws to the 1967 borders, removing its troops and its settlers completely from the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip.

On July 27, 2006, Hamas issued this:

"[Palestinians aim ] to establish an independent state with holy Jerusalem as its capital on all the territories occupied in 1967"

"[signatories commit to] resistance through various means, and confining resistance in the territories occupied in 1967, in addition to political, negotiating and diplomatic action"

All it got from Israel in return was a continuing harsh military response, continued occupation, and tightening financial screws.

And what about the obvious question that no one seems to be asking -- when has Israel *ever* recognized the Palestinian state, or its "right" to exist ?

Who else benefits from this always-simmering crisis? One answer: Iran. Tehran gains influence as it builds up a terror ministate on Israel's border. Another answer: Syria, which hosts Hamas' headquarters and some of its top leaders. Increasing chaos in Gaza could play into Damascus' hopes for regaining sway over Lebanon.

I know I know -- Iran is the new Ultimate Boogey Man, maniacally scheming to take over the planet and destroy Western life as we know it. Just like Saddam and his fearsome WMD.

Same scam, same Israeli-firsters leading the charge....

But in fact, who benefits from the crisis ? The same ones who are perpetuating it and cheering it on, refusing at every turn the many opportunities to make peace, with excuse after excuse after excuse -- "we don't have a partner," "it's too soon," "Palestinians should haven't met every step on the road map yet" (never mind that Israel hasn't met any at all,) "oh anyway the road map is dead," "we refuse to talk to their elected government," "ok well let's just agree to talk later... sometime," "we can't negotiate the serious issues yet," etc. etc. and all the while continuing its real objective -- expanding Israel's territory by force. Israel's continued building of its illegal settlements and moving more of its population into the West Bank, along with ever-increasing restrictions and closures on Palestinians -- this only aggravates the main issue at the root of the conflict -- the attempt to expand Israel's territory by force.

Those in power in *Israel* who wish to continue annexing Palestinian (and Lebanese, and Syrian) land -- this is the objective behind the Israeli government's perpetuation of this conflict for the past 40 years.

And from 1991 until 2006, Fatah was in power, not Hamas -- but Israel still kept making excuses about why it couldn't make (or keep) a peace agreement with the Palestinians. Now Hamas is in power, and suddenly all this is forgotten and it's only Hamas standing in the way of peace. And supposedly just as soon as Hamas is out, Israel is ready to sit down at the negotiating table with Mahmoud Abbas. This is the very same guy Israel has been avoiding since he was first elected (3 years before Hamas came to power.) In fact, since he was elected, Abbas couldn't get Israel to do a single thing to ease the pressure on Palestinian people. And that's why Hamas got voted into power in a landslide in 2006.

Want more proof on what a scam it all is ?

Hamas was actually *encouraged* by George W. Bush to take part in the 2006 elections. And the results were predicted by all experts. But immediately after Hamas won, the Israeli army kidnapped 65 elected Hamas members of the government in the West Bank, and the U.S. started pumping money to Fatah to stage a coup against Hamas in Gaza (which failed miserably.)

Who suffers? That's easy: The people of Gaza. As long as Hamas is in power, Gaza will be driven further into misery, further from the path that would lead to an independent state. For Gazans, the real enemy is within.

Even draconian measures by the self-proclaimed 4th most powerful army in the world have not been able to stop Palestinian militants over the last 17 years. So how exactly does Israel actually expect the unempowered, besieged, impoverished civilian population in Gaza to do it ?

Again, this is a textbook example of terror -- depriving a population of necessities in order to force them to implement political demands.

In fact, Israel's whole strategy is chillingly reminiscent of the reasoning given by the 9/11 terrorists -- "their leaders are evil, so we will make their civilians live in fear until they force their leaders to change."

P.S.: Please don't waste time responding to this post with offensive language or four letter word abbreviations. Its so Hamas style.....

Derrrrrrr um nobody in here has used any foul language.

Or is this all about me typing "#######" in another response to you on another thread ? FCOL, if you genuinely consider acronyms like ####### to be "offensive language" then you probably shouldn't even be on the internet in the first place. In fact, ####### has to be one of the more common abbreviations used on VJ (I think it ranks right under BS and right above LMFAO.) Sorry, but you're SOL....

[simple_male 1]

This is President Jimmy Carter's position that was stated during the Unofficial Geneva Accord. I fully agree with President Carter:

http://www.cartercenter.org/news/documents/doc1556.html

I hope, LuckyStrike will answer my few questions that I asked him.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

today uri avnery writes:

SO WHAT to do? After all, it is impossible to tolerate the suffering of the inhabitants of Sderot, who are under constant fire.

What is being hidden from the embittered public is that the launching of the Qassams could be stopped tomorrow morning.

Several months ago Hamas proposed a cease-fire. It repeated the offer this week.

A cease-fire means, in the view of Hamas: the Palestinians will stop shooting Qassams and mortar shells, the Israelis will stop the incursions into Gaza, the "targeted" assassinations and the blockade.

Why doesn't our government jump at this proposal?

Simple: in order to make such a deal, we must speak with Hamas, directly or indirectly. And this is precisely what the government refuses to do.

In simple and blunt words: the government sacrifices the fate of the Sderot population on the altar of a hopeless principle. It is more important for the government to boycott Hamas - because it is now the spearhead of Palestinian resistance - than to put an end to the suffering of Sderot. All the media cooperate with this pretence.

Sure. Blame Israel. You're so transparent. Here's an idea.... STOP FIRING ROCKETS AT ISRAELI CIVILIANS. Sheesh

But there WERE no rockets until 2001 -- more than 34 years after Israel's illegal occupation of the West Bank and Gaza began.

Here's an idea.... stop occupying Palestinian land and stop oppressing Palestinian civilians -- stop murdering, kidnapping, assaulting and torturing them, and stop stealing their property. Sheesh.