A Day without Immigrants

[Sister Fracas 5]

But I am not going to defend the hiring and retention of illegal immigrants to shield "family" businesses from going under. Boo freaking hoo. IMO.

Well I guess we should just be thankful that's not your family. Boo freaking hoo, wow that's some great compassion for the plight of others there.

wow, did you only read what you wanted to in Pax's post....

Would I support an expansion of temporary visas for low-skilled laborers? Sure. Do I want to see illegal immigrants rounded up at gunpoint and deported by the thousands? Not really. But we need to stop rewarding illegal immigrants and we start with MUCH stricter enforcement on employers. Arrest, fine, even jail them. And screw their business if they knowingly hired illegals. That would effectively force the illegal immigrants hired to return home, if the risks of hiring an illegal immigrant simply become too high, and to apply for a visa.

[pax 0]

My family, if we had a business, wouldn't resort to cheating to stay afloat. We were raised better.

What is it they say...until you've walked a mile??? Can't really say what you would or wouldn't do in that situation unless you've actually been in that situation. I guess you'd just allow your kids to go hungry then-or were you raised better than that?

You're not hearing me here. I'm saying that to me, hiring illegal immigrants--probably the most exploited, ill-treated sector of the American economy--is no better than other ILLEGAL options to keep a business afloat.

No, I do not have sympathy for family businesses that choose to break the law.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

But I am not going to defend the hiring and retention of illegal immigrants to shield "family" businesses from going under. Boo freaking hoo. IMO.

Well I guess we should just be thankful that's not your family. Boo freaking hoo, wow that's some great compassion for the plight of others there.

Are you for real? You want to support those that shamelessly exploit those without rights either for their own benefit or to enable them to put more pressure on the next family business forcing them to do the same if they want to stay competitive? You've got to be kidding me. Great compassion on your end!

[mercuryroad 0]

My family, if we had a business, wouldn't resort to cheating to stay afloat. We were raised better.

How would that be okay? Would it be okay if we decided to hire some young children? If we had a side business in cocaine and child prostitution to tide us over? If we decided not to pay taxes?

But that is coming from your perspective on this issue after gaining much information. I really doubt you would check everyone's passport and ask for a green card in the interview process.

You can't compare cocaine and child prostitution to hiring somebody to wash dishes. In the case of hiring an illegal immigrant, you might not have any idea you just did it!

[Traviesa 0]

My family, if we had a business, wouldn't resort to cheating to stay afloat. We were raised better.

What is it they say...until you've walked a mile??? Can't really say what you would or wouldn't do in that situation unless you've actually been in that situation. I guess you'd just allow your kids to go hungry then-or were you raised better than that?

You're not hearing me here. I'm saying that to me, hiring illegal immigrants--probably the most exploited, ill-treated sector of the American economy--is no better than other ILLEGAL options to keep a business afloat.

No, I do not have sympathy for family businesses that choose to break the law.

And what I'm saying is your comparison of hiring illegals to child prostitution is ridiculous. Most of the people I'm referring to (and I know there are places where illegals are treated terribly) treat their workers very well, make them a part of the family, that kind of thing. There's no exploitation here-the illegals get what they need-money, and the farmer gets what he needs-the work done at a cheap rate. Both are then able to provide for their families. So what do we do-do we allow the farmer to provide for his family or do we further exhaust the welfare system? Which evil is lesser to you?

[Sinergy 3]

My family, if we had a business, wouldn't resort to cheating to stay afloat. We were raised better.

What is it they say...until you've walked a mile??? Can't really say what you would or wouldn't do in that situation unless you've actually been in that situation. I guess you'd just allow your kids to go hungry then-or were you raised better than that?

You're not hearing me here. I'm saying that to me, hiring illegal immigrants--probably the most exploited, ill-treated sector of the American economy--is no better than other ILLEGAL options to keep a business afloat.

No, I do not have sympathy for family businesses that choose to break the law.

I agree with you there.

[pax 0]

We say over and over again here at VJ that ignorance is no excuse. Maybe in order to get licensing for businesses that tend to hire lots of illegals, there could be some kind of mandatory training in how to check for evidence of legal status.

I'm not saying I have a magic bullet, but at the same time, how many of these employers of illegal immigrants even check?

[mercuryroad 0]

it's all about money isn't it

Sadly, yes. And this country has a lot of it.

[Fuzzness 2]

We say over and over again here at VJ that ignorance is no excuse. Maybe in order to get licensing for businesses that tend to hire lots of illegals, there could be some kind of mandatory training in how to check for evidence of legal status.

I'm not saying I have a magic bullet, but at the same time, how many of these employers of illegal immigrants even check?

"it's not illegal if i don't know it" type of attitude you mean?

[*Robert* 2]

I don't know why... but everytime I see the title of this thread I think of the following phrase...

"A day without Immigrants would be like a day without sunshine"

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

My family, if we had a business, wouldn't resort to cheating to stay afloat. We were raised better.

How would that be okay? Would it be okay if we decided to hire some young children? If we had a side business in cocaine and child prostitution to tide us over? If we decided not to pay taxes?

But that is coming from your perspective on this issue after gaining much information. I really doubt you would check everyone's passport and ask for a green card in the interview process.

You can't compare cocaine and child prostitution to hiring somebody to wash dishes. In the case of hiring an illegal immigrant, you might not have any idea you just did it!

I don't know. I've hired for years. The I-9 is not rocket science and is mandatory paperwork for any employee anyone in the US hires. So, yes, asking for porper documentation is something one routinely does in the hiring process. Quit pretending that hiring illegals is a Britney Spears "Oops, I did it again" blonde kind of thing. It's not.

[mercuryroad 0]

We say over and over again here at VJ that ignorance is no excuse. Maybe in order to get licensing for businesses that tend to hire lots of illegals, there could be some kind of mandatory training in how to check for evidence of legal status.

I'm not saying I have a magic bullet, but at the same time, how many of these employers of illegal immigrants even check?

Yeah, but you made this a moral issue based upon how you said you were raised and equated that to child prositution.

All I'm saying is that as a small employer, you may have no idea that you broke the law by your latest hiring decision....in today's world. That should be part of the reform as well.

Those employers could be perfectly moral people that don't know they just did something wrong. Give them a system for checks and balances as well.

[pax 0]

And what I'm saying is your comparison of hiring illegals to child prostitution is ridiculous. Most of the people I'm referring to (and I know there are places where illegals are treated terribly) treat their workers very well, make them a part of the family, that kind of thing. There's no exploitation here-the illegals get what they need-money, and the farmer gets what he needs-the work done at a cheap rate. Both are then able to provide for their families. So what do we do-do we allow the farmer to provide for his family or do we further exhaust the welfare system? Which evil is lesser to you?

Sure, I agree it's not exactly the same thing. But your argument is that it's okay if family businesses break the law, if they "have to" to "stay afloat." And by that argument, having a side business in drugs, prostitution, or organized crime would also be okay, if that got the bills paid.

It's lovely that some illegal workers are treated well. But they're not being treated well if they cannot go to OSHA or EEOC if they want to report unsafe or unfair conditions at their jobs. They are not being treated well if they're let go and can't apply for unemployment. That is NOT being treated well. It's not a good deal for the illegals.

[Traviesa 0]

My family, if we had a business, wouldn't resort to cheating to stay afloat. We were raised better.

How would that be okay? Would it be okay if we decided to hire some young children? If we had a side business in cocaine and child prostitution to tide us over? If we decided not to pay taxes?

But that is coming from your perspective on this issue after gaining much information. I really doubt you would check everyone's passport and ask for a green card in the interview process.

You can't compare cocaine and child prostitution to hiring somebody to wash dishes. In the case of hiring an illegal immigrant, you might not have any idea you just did it!

I don't know. I've hired for years. The I-9 is not rocket science and is mandatory paperwork for any employee anyone in the US hires. So, yes, asking for porper documentation is something one routinely does in the hiring process. Quit pretending that hiring illegals is a Britney Spears "Oops, I did it again" blonde kind of thing. It's not.

I just realized that like half the places I work didn't make me fill one of those out!!!

[dalegg 143]

I don't know why... but everytime I see the title of this thread I think of the following phrase...

"A day without Immigrants would be like a day without sunshine"

Hey! That's my wife you're talking about there!