A Day without Immigrants

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

...Don't you think that America can suck up the loss of less than 5% of the work force seeing that no single sector of the economy would be losing more than 10-11% of it's workforce and seeing that it is a rather small minority of farms and businesses that claim to stay afloat by exploiting illegal labor?

No, I don't. Sorry.

How come? You said earlier that "not many" can make it without illegal labor. Is 95% of businesses (at least 85%-90% in any sector you choose) the same as "not many"? To me, 85% or better is a vast majority. Wouldn't it be fair to say that "your understanding" is a bit skewed on that issue?

[mercuryroad 0]

...Don't you think that America can suck up the loss of less than 5% of the work force seeing that no single sector of the economy would be losing more than 10-11% of it's workforce and seeing that it is a rather small minority of farms and businesses that claim to stay afloat by exploiting illegal labor?

No, I don't. Sorry.

Me either.....it's just not that simple. There are other economic ramifications to consider.

I go back to my doctor example.......allowing foreign physicians to come here to work in "under served" areas because American doctors don't want to work and live in rural North Dakota.

The only difference between those foreign physicans and illegal immigrants is that they have a viable legal alternative to come here and do the work that American employers want them to do.

Well besides that I just don't see that there's thousands of people waiting around to pick up these jobs...I mean, as the numbers suggest, most people have jobs or will soon find one at this very moment.

I thought we would just ship the homeless from Chicago to North Dakota. They'd like it there. And the unemployed programmers wouldn't mind working as janitors or landscapers. Landscaping is done outdoors and computer programmers love the outdoors....its a fact.

[Traviesa 0]

...Don't you think that America can suck up the loss of less than 5% of the work force seeing that no single sector of the economy would be losing more than 10-11% of it's workforce and seeing that it is a rather small minority of farms and businesses that claim to stay afloat by exploiting illegal labor?

No, I don't. Sorry.

Me either.....it's just not that simple. There are other economic ramifications to consider.

I go back to my doctor example.......allowing foreign physicians to come here to work in "under served" areas because American doctors don't want to work and live in rural North Dakota.

The only difference between those foreign physicans and illegal immigrants is that they have a viable legal alternative to come here and do the work that American employers want them to do.

Well besides that I just don't see that there's thousands of people waiting around to pick up these jobs...I mean, as the numbers suggest, most people have jobs or will soon find one at this very moment.

I thought we would just ship the homeless from Chicago to North Dakota. They'd like it there. And the unemployed programmers wouldn't mind working as janitors or landscapers. Landscaping is done outdoors and computer programmers love the outdoors....its a fact.

True, true Merc...and you forgot about all those workers who are going to be willing to fill the positions at the small percentage of farms that can't afford-wait, I mean are too stingy to-pay regular wages for that work.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I go back to my doctor example.......allowing foreign physicians to come here to work in "under served" areas because American doctors don't want to work and live in rural North Dakota.

Let's stick with your doctor example, then. Don't you think that if this niche would be filled with illegal laborers (kind of hard to imagine in this particular field but bear with me) that Congress would not have anticipated a need to make available cetain visa the fill the need? Same goes for unqualified labor. Much more so becuase it's unqualified labor. If American employers had a real need for labor, Congress would be lobbied to make them available. Legally. This process doesn't work because a number of employers and business owners apparently feel that they are above the law. As in: Why lobby Congress to let me hire workers from outside the US if I can get rich much easier by shamelessly exploiting those that have no rights here whatsoever and by dumping the social cost of my greed on the dumb rest of the country?

[Sinergy 3]

again?

[dalegg 143]

Everything I've read is uncertain how other sectors would be affected but everyone agrees that immigrants are vital to the agriculture industry, particularly here in California

I think in California many industries would cribbled without immigrants. Remember the title is "a day without immigrants", not "a day without illegal immigrants"

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

[pax 0]

...and you forgot about all those workers who are going to be willing to fill the positions at the small percentage of farms that can't afford-wait, I mean are too stingy to-pay regular wages for that work.

Again, why should we feel bad for businesses that can't "make it" without illegal labor? Would it be okay for them to hire, say, 10-year-olds? Would it be okay for them to not pay taxes, or liability insurance?

[mercuryroad 0]

I go back to my doctor example.......allowing foreign physicians to come here to work in "under served" areas because American doctors don't want to work and live in rural North Dakota.

Let's stick with your doctor example, then. Don't you think that if this niche would be filled with illegal laborers (kind of hard to imagine in this particular field but bear with me) that Congress would not have anticipated a need to make available cetain visa the fill the need? Same goes for unqualified labor. Much more so becuase it's unqualified labor. If American employers had a real need for labor, Congress would be lobbied to make them available. Legally. This process doesn't work because a number of employers and business owners apparently feel that they are above the law. As in: Why lobby Congress to let me hire workers from outside the US if I can get rich much easier by shamelessly exploiting those that have no rights here whatsoever and by dumping the social cost of my greed on the dumb rest of the country?

We disagree on several things but you and I actually came to some consensus I believe a week or two ago. Employers are enabling much of this to happen. There is no way they would lobby because they are getting labor at a steal right now. Nobody is barking so Congress isn't going to do anything. Doctors aren't the ones sneaking over the border either....and Congress likes them because they are "skilled labor".

We do agree that employers bear a huge responsibility in this. If they would not hire illegal immigrants, then I think you would see a significant decrease. Remove the money from the equation.

The issue, however, is if America could fill these jobs tomorrow if all of the illegal immigrants left. I don't believe they could.

...and you forgot about all those workers who are going to be willing to fill the positions at the small percentage of farms that can't afford-wait, I mean are too stingy to-pay regular wages for that work.

Again, why should we feel bad for businesses that can't "make it" without illegal labor? Would it be okay for them to hire, say, 10-year-olds? Would it be okay for them to not pay taxes, or liability insurance?

We keep bailing out the airline industry.....why should we care about them either?

And 9/11 is not a valid argument.....airlines were in a lot of trouble long before that happened.

[Sinergy 3]

I dont get it though, isnt the whole debate on immigration about ILLEGAL immigrants? So why should LEGAL IMMIGRANTS walk out on "the day without immigrants?" They are legal, and they have jobs theyd like to keep. And i thought most of the illegals issues were not having rights and whatnot. I know i watch the news way too much, but i dont ever remember hearing a LEGAL IMMIGRANT bitching.

With that said, im pretty darn sure 90% of the walkers on that day will be ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. As far as i know, everyone i know who is legal will be at work. The again, who the fk really knows.

Edited April 24, 2006 by Ionescu

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The issue, however, is if America could fill these jobs tomorrow if all of the illegal immigrants left. I don't believe they could.

No, you would not fill those jobs overnight. Several businesses would go down the drain pretty quickly. And for most of those, I'd say good riddance as they weren't able to compete fairly as it is. Other businesses (those 85% +) would be ready to pick up the slack in no time. Not overnight but there wouldn't be no darn crisis.

As I said time and again: Let them go on strike. Tell you what: They won't. It's a bluff.

I dont get it though, isnt the whole debate on immigration about ILLEGAL immigrants? So why should LEGAL IMMIGRANTS walk out on "the day without immigrants?"

The illegal crowd and their supporters and enablers love to blurr that line. Toss all immigrants in one pot in an effort to lend credibility to your cause. I'm just waiting for the shoplifters to try and identify themselves with the shoppers of this nation. I mean, both groups remove merchandise from a store. The former just skip the paying for the goods...

Edited April 24, 2006 by ET-US2004

[mercuryroad 0]

The issue, however, is if America could fill these jobs tomorrow if all of the illegal immigrants left. I don't believe they could.

No, you would not fill those jobs overnight. Several businesses would go down the drain pretty quickly. And for most of those, I'd say good riddance as they weren't able to compete fairly as it is. Other businesses (those 85% +) would be ready to pick up the slack in no time. Not overnight but there wouldn't be no darn crisis.

As I said time and again: Let them go on strike. Tell you what: They won't. It's a bluff.

The only effective way for them to display their importance is actually to leave.....and we'll never see that happen. One or two days strike would not cripple the nation......the only way to measure would be in the long term and like I said, they're not going anywhere in the long term.

It's ok if it is a bluff......if people demonstrate then it will be symbolic more than anything. That has importance too.

Any way you slice it, we need reform and a change of thinking.

[LaL 418]

totally random interjection here - but my family had a tree farm back home and we did not have illegal/undocumented workers. I, for one saw how much money came through that farm and it wasn't remotely close to a little.

[Sinergy 3]

Weeeeeellllllllllll IMO, they are only hurting themselves, not the nation, i mean, when they do go back to work, they will have more work than normal since they failed to show up and do it when they were supossed to. IF their employers even keep them on.

Edited April 24, 2006 by Ionescu

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Any way you slice it, we need reform and a change of thinking.

Yes, we do. We need more labor immigration. More visas and more effective ways of securing those. And we need to put a stop to the mentality that it's okay to break the laws if we don't like them. We need to stop detaining people that came here illegally and release them with a date to appear in court and put them on a bus or plane back home instead. Instantly. We need to get tough on employers that hire illegals. Stiff fines for the business and even jail time for those engaged in hiring folks that are not legally entitled to take up employment. We need a change of thinking for sure.