Religious intolerance in the job market

[Emancipation 2]

We emigrated to Florida 3 months ago and my wife is a 'Peoplesoft' programmer and has been looking for her speciality

Today she got the first sniff of the right job but look what it says !

'Because this client is a ministry organization they require all employees to be dedicated to the Great Commission as defined by Jesus Christ in the Holy Bible. If you are a bible believing follower of Jesus Christ and want to use your Peoplesoft experience to directly further the cause for Christ, then we ask that you consider contacting us so we can explore this opportunity together.'

Surely barring applicants on grounds of religion or colour is illegal in the U.S. ?

It's exactly the same as - 'no dogs, no blacks, no irish '

As it happens, we regard all religions as mere superstition, but I feel just as sorry for say a moslem or jew etc etc who was an ace peoplesoft programmer but barred from applying on religious grounds

These people would get shut down in the UK...

alan

Does it list how much they are paying for this job? My hunch is that it is lower than average, and all the jargin above is code for "this will be a ministry aka - doesn't pay well" so the only people who would WANT this job would be thinking along the lines of serving in this way and not expecting the big $$.. Just a hunch..

[Mononoke28 135]

When we opened our bank accounts they asked us which church we belonged to and they didn't like it when we said non. The smiles went and we slunk out of there.

alan

Oh my gosh Alan you need to moooooooove!!! LOL!

I have neeeeeever been asked that anywhere. Maybe it's the kind of town you live it or even the neighborhood. But these things are not even asked in Colombia which is a country with 95% "practicing" Catholics.

THAT'S INSANE!!

Diana

[Captain Oates 911]

Does it list how much they are paying for this job? My hunch is that it is lower than average, and all the jargin above is code for "this will be a ministry aka - doesn't pay well" so the only people who would WANT this job would be thinking along the lines of serving in this way and not expecting the big $$.. Just a hunch..

dunno - she lost interest at that point...

We were in Wisconsin before which was pretty pagan compared to Florida but like Iran compared to England ..

I suppose I will acclimatise slowly. The flag thing really bothered me but I am used to it now so perhaps the religiousness will slowly fade in my perception..

My second best friend is a minister in the Moravian church in England and he plays cricket and loves beer - he is laid back dude so it didn't prepare me for this level of intensity.

I won't tell my coliseum joke though..

Caesar and his wife are in the coliseum watching the christians being eaten by the lions. Mrs Caesar started crying and Caesar said - never mind dear, they are only christians. She said - no its not that - it's that lion over there - it hasn't got one !

[tom&tata 2]

I am a Christian and I would not want to work for a company that wants to furthur the religion of Muslims and I would want to know up front of what the job is about, so I would not waste my time. Maybe they don't want to waste peoples time

But THAT is your personal preference.

But if being religious IS requirement to be a programmer - a job which I think what you believe in does not affect how good you do your job, personally I have never seen that.

[ausqueen 0]

But if being religious IS requirement to be a programmer - a job which I think what you believe in does not affect how good you do your job, personally I have never seen that.

If it was a programming job at... IBM or for some employer who does "everyday" things - obviously, potential employee's religious belief would have nothing to do with their suitability for employment. But this company states in their job ad that their specialty is religious ministry so they want you to be able to do the job at the level they need.

For argument sake, let's say that a part of job description is "to develop an interactive bible program for sunday School, year 1 to 5". Wouldn't you think that they want you to share their beliefs before they let you teach their children? Besides, they are very specific about the job: "(if you) want to use your Peoplesoft experience to directly further the cause for Christ, then we ask that you consider contacting us...".

This is just a simple job ad posted by some Christian Church that knows what they need and that wants to keep doing their job well. Give them a break.

To the OP: I understand your frustration and/or disappointment but I'd say they are both misdirected here. Religion, Jesus, or some organised Church are not discriminating against your wife for her lack of religious conviction. I hope she finds a great job soon. Good luck!

[ausqueen 0]

Surely a programmer just programs and doesn't minister ?

Otherwise they should advertise for a minister who can program.

When we opened our bank accounts they asked us which church we belonged to and they didn't like it when we said non. The smiles went and we slunk out of there.

Well, it looks like they are advertising for a programmer who can minister

Were you trying to open an account at some church bank catering for "members only"??? Never heard of a bank asking such a question!

[tom&tata 2]

But if being religious IS requirement to be a programmer - a job which I think what you believe in does not affect how good you do your job, personally I have never seen that.

If it was a programming job at... IBM or for some employer who does "everyday" things - obviously, potential employee's religious belief would have nothing to do with their suitability for employment. But this company states in their job ad that their specialty is religious ministry so they want you to be able to do the job at the level they need.

For argument sake, let's say that a part of job description is "to develop an interactive bible program for sunday School, year 1 to 5". Wouldn't you think that they want you to share their beliefs before they let you teach their children? Besides, they are very specific about the job: "(if you) want to use your Peoplesoft experience to directly further the cause for Christ, then we ask that you consider contacting us...".

This is just a simple job ad posted by some Christian Church that knows what they need and that wants to keep doing their job well. Give them a break.

To the OP: I understand your frustration and/or disappointment but I'd say they are both misdirected here. Religion, Jesus, or some organised Church are not discriminating against your wife for her lack of religious conviction. I hope she finds a great job soon. Good luck!

I am Muslim & went to Cathlic school. It is possible to get perfect 10 on Catholic Religion subject while maintaining being a Muslim. What I believe has nothing to do with my grade on that subject.

No need to be defensive. Nobody is bashing the organization (at least not me). I am just saying personally I have never seen job ad like that.

[ausqueen 0]

I am Muslim & went to Cathlic school. It is possible to get perfect 10 on Catholic Religion subject while maintaining being a Muslim. What I believe has nothing to do with my grade on that subject.

No need to be defensive. Nobody is bashing the organization (at least not me). I am just saying personally I have never seen job ad like that.

Hey... I agree with you.

And I guess I was replying more to what alen said (OP), even if I included your quote. I thought he was "blaming" the employer where it wasn't deserved, so... yeah, I felt like chiming in To me it just seemed that OP had read too much into that job ad and shared his very strong reaction with us, so I felt like offering a different "reading".

I know about having a non-Catholic students in a Catholic school. And of course you can learn the subject and get straight "A" without changing your faith. By the way, well done for earning top marks for religion class and keeping your own

[Captain Oates 911]

I am Muslim & went to Cathlic school. It is possible to get perfect 10 on Catholic Religion subject while maintaining being a Muslim. What I believe has nothing to do with my grade on that subject.

No need to be defensive. Nobody is bashing the organization (at least not me). I am just saying personally I have never seen job ad like that.

I agree - I was indoctrinated as a 'primitive methodist' and boy are they primitive. I liked all the stuff that big J had to say and I still feel like a big fan of his, but as a really nice guy and an ancient socialist only. I peeled off when they told me about an old man (trillions of years old) coming out of the clouds and impregnating a virgin without asking her husband first and just by waving his ... finger ! I don't approve of that sort of thing and I think the air force should stop it.

I digress

I won't hide the fact that I AM bashing the organisation and I bet if any of em get sick then they would be the first ones to hire a superb moslem doctor rather than an incompetent evangelical christian...all their 'keep it in the family' would soon go out of the window.

That's why I say it's not right to say 'our computer cannot be programmed by a non believer'.

We make all this fuss about saudi not allowing women to drive etc and then we get into that same business by saying that non - evangelicals are not allowed to program jesus' computer

These excluders should think that one day they might be the excluded ones...I bet their candidates are excluded from my wife's vote.. America is about inclusiveness not excluding certain people. It's supposed to be a melting pot and not a dividing pot

alan

[athena_ny 1]

When we opened our bank accounts they asked us which church we belonged to and they didn't like it when we said non. The smiles went and we slunk out of there.

alan

Oh my gosh Alan you need to moooooooove!!! LOL!

I have neeeeeever been asked that anywhere. Maybe it's the kind of town you live it or even the neighborhood. But these things are not even asked in Colombia which is a country with 95% "practicing" Catholics.

THAT'S INSANE!!

Diana

I want to know where in Florida this is! I have never been asked any of these questions in the last 2 years I've been here!

FL is more religious than NY, but I've had no bad experiences like this!

[Jeraly 4]

My mum works at a Brethren school that follow... slightly more alternative forms of Christianity. She is Christian but no longer religious (following divorce etc) but she respects their beliefs and works to maintain the ethos of their culture within the school... In that situation I can't see how they could discriminate...

However - if it really is spreading the word of a religion or trying to "sell" an idea that perhaps not everyone would want to hear then I can understand how someone who doesn't practice said religion might not want to work in that position...

I'd want to have a good look at the job description but at the same time I don't think it should deter her from applying - I would suggest that if she gets to interview she demonstrates her open-mindedness and ability to respect the beliefs of her colleagues/employers and work to maintain that ethos in the workplace if that is required... sometimes you just need tact

[raphael7546 0]

When we opened our bank accounts they asked us which church we belonged to and they didn't like it when we said non. The smiles went and we slunk out of there.

alan

Oh my gosh Alan you need to moooooooove!!! LOL!

I have neeeeeever been asked that anywhere. Maybe it's the kind of town you live it or even the neighborhood. But these things are not even asked in Colombia which is a country with 95% "practicing" Catholics.

THAT'S INSANE!!

Diana

I want to know where in Florida this is! I have never been asked any of these questions in the last 2 years I've been here!

FL is more religious than NY, but I've had no bad experiences like this!

If you think Florida is bad, try living here in Utah. The "Church" rules EVERYTHING here. And if you don't belong to the "Church" you can forget about making a good friend, or getting further in your career too.

[athena_ny 1]

When we opened our bank accounts they asked us which church we belonged to and they didn't like it when we said non. The smiles went and we slunk out of there.

alan

Oh my gosh Alan you need to moooooooove!!! LOL!

I have neeeeeever been asked that anywhere. Maybe it's the kind of town you live it or even the neighborhood. But these things are not even asked in Colombia which is a country with 95% "practicing" Catholics.

THAT'S INSANE!!

Diana

I want to know where in Florida this is! I have never been asked any of these questions in the last 2 years I've been here!

FL is more religious than NY, but I've had no bad experiences like this!

If you think Florida is bad, try living here in Utah. The "Church" rules EVERYTHING here. And if you don't belong to the "Church" you can forget about making a good friend, or getting further in your career too.

I just said I DON'T think Florida is bad.

[catrocks 0]

I've gotten the impression since being here (which hasn't been long) that Americans seem to have a different idea about being a 'good Christian' than I'm used to in Britain. The pastor who married us, for example, was quite happy to speak about 'dam Mexicans taking over the country' - which I found to be racist and VERY un-Christian.

Secondly, we went for a short break to Holmes county in Ohio (Amish country) after our wedding, and stayed at a b&b who was run by this guy who was preaching to us over the breakfast table. While I am Christian myself (though not practising), my husband is not religious at all, and we BOTH felt very uncomfortable to have the beliefs of this guy pushed on us during what we hoped would be a relaxing break. He bombarded us with prayer cards, tried to convince us to go to the Creation museum in greater Cincinnati (over and over and OVER again), and made assumptions about us based on his pre-judgment. I found this to be un-Christian based on what I was taught in Church.

I realise that these are only two people out of millions, but it certainly made me wary about joining a church here.

This is not related to the original post, but I noticed someone mentioned they'd noticed similar 'un-Christian' behaviour, just wanted to add my experience.

[Krikit 1,164]

I've gotten the impression since being here (which hasn't been long) that Americans seem to have a different idea about being a 'good Christian' than I'm used to in Britain. The pastor who married us, for example, was quite happy to speak about 'dam Mexicans taking over the country' - which I found to be racist and VERY un-Christian.

Secondly, we went for a short break to Holmes county in Ohio (Amish country) after our wedding, and stayed at a b&b who was run by this guy who was preaching to us over the breakfast table. While I am Christian myself (though not practising), my husband is not religious at all, and we BOTH felt very uncomfortable to have the beliefs of this guy pushed on us during what we hoped would be a relaxing break. He bombarded us with prayer cards, tried to convince us to go to the Creation museum in greater Cincinnati (over and over and OVER again), and made assumptions about us based on his pre-judgment. I found this to be un-Christian based on what I was taught in Church.

I agree. Some people are just too OTT. They focus more on religion than on a relationship with God.