Religious intolerance in the job market

[Captain Oates 911]

We emigrated to Florida 3 months ago and my wife is a 'Peoplesoft' programmer and has been looking for her speciality

Today she got the first sniff of the right job but look what it says !

'Because this client is a ministry organization they require all employees to be dedicated to the Great Commission as defined by Jesus Christ in the Holy Bible. If you are a bible believing follower of Jesus Christ and want to use your Peoplesoft experience to directly further the cause for Christ, then we ask that you consider contacting us so we can explore this opportunity together.'

Surely barring applicants on grounds of religion or colour is illegal in the U.S. ?

It's exactly the same as - 'no dogs, no blacks, no irish '

As it happens, we regard all religions as mere superstition, but I feel just as sorry for say a moslem or jew etc etc who was an ace peoplesoft programmer but barred from applying on religious grounds

These people would get shut down in the UK...

alan

[snowfrostedlashes 0]

To be honest, if the work is heavily related to spreading and celebrating Christianity it probably wouldn't be a nice environment for someone with a strong belief in a different religion to be involved with.

If the job looks perfect in every other respect perhaps a little 'white lie' might be in order to secure more information about what exactly it entails.

[Captain Oates 911]

To be honest, if the work is heavily related to spreading and celebrating Christianity it probably wouldn't be a nice environment for someone with a strong belief in a different religion to be involved with.

If the job looks perfect in every other respect perhaps a little 'white lie' might be in order to secure more information about what exactly it entails.

That is exactly like saying 'you black people would not be comfortable in our 100% white country club so we exclude you to protect your feelings'

A white lie to get a job ? don't think so...

You see that is the problem, Jesus would not have set up a 'club' to exclude people - these people are so far from christianity and they can't even see it. I am a better christian than they are and I am not even slightly religious. They think it is some kind of club or masonic lodge. It's the kkk without the sheets.

When I set my business up dealing in commodities futures, I should advertise jobs as 'christians not welcome' and see how that goes down.

I assume that would be viewed differently ?

alan

[*JG* 2]

I have to agree with you.............I don't think this should fly.

If I were a non-Christian and qualified, I would apply and see if this topic actually came up at interview. If so, I would be making some phone calls!!!!!

[Mononoke28 135]

That actually made me laugh. I've never in my life seen that before at any of the jobs I've worked for or applied for. I'm a practicing Catholic and to be honest with you, I'd be kind of weirded out reading that I have to follow Jesus Christ to get the job or stay at a job. It's just too freaky.

Diana

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

1. I've never seen anything like that, and I've browsed LOTS of IT job sites.

2. I don't believe that's legal. But who knows maybe religious entities are exempt, they're exempt from a lot of laws.

[Dr. Obvious 49]

It is illegal to discriminate on basis of religion. But that aside, why would you want to even apply to work for nuts like that? I would think it would be a good clue to stay the hell away if you didn't swing that direction.

[Minya's wife 25]

This is more than likely a religious non-profit organization. As such, I believe, they are allowed some leeway as to who they choose to hire. If this organization is large enough to be needing a computer programmer, I assume they have some sound legal advice and wouldn't be practicing outright discrimination. There is some skirting the discrimination line here, but probably not ourtight illegal. Dunno, just MO.

[Udella&Wiz 325]

Hmm..how convenient that they got to say it...however illegal...right away it turns a certain'kind' of people away...how effective

Sheesh...didn't you know that believing in JC can make you a better programmer? I say that tongue in cheek, but for those with strong religious beliefs, it is an integral part of their lives , that God affects everything in your life.

Just presenting both sides.....personally people need to start leaving religion out of the workplace and government because your own bbeliefs maynaot be everyone's

[Minya's wife 25]

ETA: I posted twice, my browser froze on me.

Edited January 22, 2008 by Paula&Minya

[snowfrostedlashes 0]

That is exactly like saying 'you black people would not be comfortable in our 100% white country club so we exclude you to protect your feelings'

Not really. I personally wouldn't want to work someplace where I was expected as part of my job to pray at the beginning of a group meeting (I have seen incidences of this in the UK) and things like that... and I don't have strong religious beliefs of any kind and was also raised to believe that religion should be a very private matter between an individual and their god or gods.

What I meant to suggest was that someone who does not believe in Christianity and believes something else very passionately would probably not feel comfortable promoting Christianity even indirectly by working for such an employer - in the same way that an animal rights activist wouldn't want to work for a cosmetics company that tests products on animals.

[ausqueen 0]

We emigrated to Florida 3 months ago and my wife is a 'Peoplesoft' programmer and has been looking for her speciality

Today she got the first sniff of the right job but look what it says !

'Because this client is a ministry organization they require all employees to be dedicated to the Great Commission as defined by Jesus Christ in the Holy Bible. If you are a bible believing follower of Jesus Christ and want to use your Peoplesoft experience to directly further the cause for Christ, then we ask that you consider contacting us so we can explore this opportunity together.'

Surely barring applicants on grounds of religion or colour is illegal in the U.S. ?

It's exactly the same as - 'no dogs, no blacks, no irish '

As it happens, we regard all religions as mere superstition, but I feel just as sorry for say a moslem or jew etc etc who was an ace peoplesoft programmer but barred from applying on religious grounds

These people would get shut down in the UK...

alan

I think reading the job ad again would help you understand better and realise that your thread title is misleading and a bit over the top.

'Because this client is a ministry organization they require all employees to be dedicated to the Great Commission as defined by Jesus Christ in the Holy Bible."

It is simply a job requirement. Because of the kind of organization they are and the work they do. What's so strange about that? You wouldn't want to apply for a job for which you dont meet requirements.

Not every IT job is suitable for every IT expert out there - some jobs require specific expertise, work experience etc - every employer advertises jobs to suit their company goals. If this particular employer is a "ministry" organization isn't it logical that as their employee you have to be able to do that ministry - whatever it is?

I don't think this has anything to do with "religious intolerance" as you put it. Just a job ad...

[jason&Marla 0]

I am a Christian and I would not want to work for a company that wants to furthur the religion of Muslims and I would want to know up front of what the job is about, so I would not waste my time. Maybe they don't want to waste peoples time

[mox 298]

Many "specialty" organizations are allowed leeway on who they hire, and religious institutions fall into that category. For example, if you were looking for a pastor for a church you might require that they not only hold a university degree in your particular brand of theology, but that they are actually a practicing person of that particular brand of faith. You could legally exclude a person who holds the same qualifications but does not "believe." (And if you're a Catholic parish you could even disqualify based on gender.)

Theaters and other performance organizations are also allowed to "discriminate" when hiring talent. For example, if the script calls for a white male in the lead role then it is not discrimination to turn away a black candidate who would otherwise meet the qualifications.

[Captain Oates 911]

[

I think reading the job ad again would help you understand better and realise that your thread title is misleading and a bit over the top.

'Because this client is a ministry organization they require all employees to be dedicated to the Great Commission as defined by Jesus Christ in the Holy Bible."

It is simply a job requirement. Because of the kind of organization they are and the work they do. What's so strange about that? You wouldn't want to apply for a job for which you dont meet requirements.

Not every IT job is suitable for every IT expert out there - some jobs require specific expertise, work experience etc - every employer advertises jobs to suit their company goals. If this particular employer is a "ministry" organization isn't it logical that as their employee you have to be able to do that ministry - whatever it is?

I don't think this has anything to do with "religious intolerance" as you put it. Just a job ad...

Surely a programmer just programs and doesn't minister ?

Otherwise they should advertise for a minister who can program. Does she have to like cats to program for the cat's protection league ?

anyway - the end result is that a skilled specialist is denied a job opportunity because her religious beliefs do not accord with the employer's.

I like the sunshine and the cheap dollar and the easy parking, but the U.S. scares me when it gets like this so I will remain just a resident (Registered ALIEN). This stuff is SO foreign to me and I don't feel part of it. I had just become (gotten) used to all the big flags with gold edges and eagles that reminded me so much of Nurenberg in 1933 but now the rabid religious fervor reminds me of England in 1605 or Spain in 1478

and it isn't jesus' gentle religion - it is organised and punches hard and demands and excludes and plans and tithes mercilessly. When we opened our bank accounts they asked us which church we belonged to and they didn't like it when we said non. The smiles went and we slunk out of there.

I would like to see the U.S. pass laws to make it illegal to exclude job candidates on grounds of religion.

I believe in freedom of religion and freedom of people and the direction here is against freedom. Freedom to be unemployed or freedom to starve if you do not comply is not freedom.

alan