Border agent hit, killed by suspect's car

[garya505 2]

...as a comparison, would you prefer to see cocaine and hash sold at the corner 7-11 like beer and cigs?

In my opinion that would be preferable to what is going on currently. More openness is definitely the way to go. If you are open, you can educate with greater success. It's perfectly true that you can't legislate people into making excellent personal choices at all times. You can however provide honest and factual information so that people can at least make choices based on facts.

Another benefit of decriminalization would be that there would be far more opportunity for those who want to try to kick the drug habit to able to do so. Currently it's not in the drug dealer's interest to allow people to get away from the drug culture atmosphere, they thrive on the fact that it is a subculture. In the dark they can manipulate and coerce. All this hiding and dodging and fear of getting caught plays right into the hands of the drug traffickers.

What a load of #######.

Nice refutating of the argument

Thank you. B)

Ah never mind. Drugs = devil. Some drugs anyway. Clearly nicotine isn't evil although alcohol is, sometimes. Who suffers from this lack of openness? Well, I guess the addicts but who cares about those folks anyway? So long as one can sweep those 'trailer trash' under the carpet and execute them when they become a nuisance then everyone will be happy in suburbia.

Now you're catching on!

If only the country were one big suburb, where everyone has a 5 bedroom house and room for a pony, then surely we wouldn't have these problems...

My guess is that there are more drugs (at least in dollar value) in the rich neighborhoods than the poor areas. The people involved just kill each other more often in the poor neighborhoods.

[HAL 9000 96]

...as a comparison, would you prefer to see cocaine and hash sold at the corner 7-11 like beer and cigs?

In my opinion that would be preferable to what is going on currently. More openness is definitely the way to go. If you are open, you can educate with greater success. It's perfectly true that you can't legislate people into making excellent personal choices at all times. You can however provide honest and factual information so that people can at least make choices based on facts.

Another benefit of decriminalization would be that there would be far more opportunity for those who want to try to kick the drug habit to able to do so. Currently it's not in the drug dealer's interest to allow people to get away from the drug culture atmosphere, they thrive on the fact that it is a subculture. In the dark they can manipulate and coerce. All this hiding and dodging and fear of getting caught plays right into the hands of the drug traffickers.

What a load of #######.

Nice refutating of the argument

Thank you. B)

Ah never mind. Drugs = devil. Some drugs anyway. Clearly nicotine isn't evil although alcohol is, sometimes. Who suffers from this lack of openness? Well, I guess the addicts but who cares about those folks anyway? So long as one can sweep those 'trailer trash' under the carpet and execute them when they become a nuisance then everyone will be happy in suburbia.

Now you're catching on!

If only the country were one big suburb, where everyone has a 5 bedroom house and room for a pony, then surely we wouldn't have these problems...

My guess is that there are more drugs (at least in dollar value) in the rich neighborhoods than the poor areas. The people involved just kill each other more often in the poor neighborhoods.

By decriminalizing the traffic part you eliminate that part of the biz. No need to hide in da' hood.

[garya505 2]

...as a comparison, would you prefer to see cocaine and hash sold at the corner 7-11 like beer and cigs?

In my opinion that would be preferable to what is going on currently. More openness is definitely the way to go. If you are open, you can educate with greater success. It's perfectly true that you can't legislate people into making excellent personal choices at all times. You can however provide honest and factual information so that people can at least make choices based on facts.

Another benefit of decriminalization would be that there would be far more opportunity for those who want to try to kick the drug habit to able to do so. Currently it's not in the drug dealer's interest to allow people to get away from the drug culture atmosphere, they thrive on the fact that it is a subculture. In the dark they can manipulate and coerce. All this hiding and dodging and fear of getting caught plays right into the hands of the drug traffickers.

What a load of #######.

Nice refutating of the argument

Thank you. B)

Ah never mind. Drugs = devil. Some drugs anyway. Clearly nicotine isn't evil although alcohol is, sometimes. Who suffers from this lack of openness? Well, I guess the addicts but who cares about those folks anyway? So long as one can sweep those 'trailer trash' under the carpet and execute them when they become a nuisance then everyone will be happy in suburbia.

Now you're catching on!

If only the country were one big suburb, where everyone has a 5 bedroom house and room for a pony, then surely we wouldn't have these problems...

My guess is that there are more drugs (at least in dollar value) in the rich neighborhoods than the poor areas. The people involved just kill each other more often in the poor neighborhoods.

By decriminalizing the traffic part you eliminate that part of the biz. No need to hide in da' hood.

Of course, then they could just do their drug deals at Starbucks, over a nice Caramel Latte.

If our kids ask "daddy, what are those people doing?", we'll just say, "oh, those are nice people making bad choice".

Edited January 24, 2008 by garya505

[HAL 9000 96]

And avoid drive by shots in the process, or maybe by reading about the regulatory possibilities in the previous pages, buying them where legally permissible to do so.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

...as a comparison, would you prefer to see cocaine and hash sold at the corner 7-11 like beer and cigs?

In my opinion that would be preferable to what is going on currently. More openness is definitely the way to go. If you are open, you can educate with greater success. It's perfectly true that you can't legislate people into making excellent personal choices at all times. You can however provide honest and factual information so that people can at least make choices based on facts.

Another benefit of decriminalization would be that there would be far more opportunity for those who want to try to kick the drug habit to able to do so. Currently it's not in the drug dealer's interest to allow people to get away from the drug culture atmosphere, they thrive on the fact that it is a subculture. In the dark they can manipulate and coerce. All this hiding and dodging and fear of getting caught plays right into the hands of the drug traffickers.

What a load of #######.

Nice refutating of the argument

Thank you. B)

Ah never mind. Drugs = devil. Some drugs anyway. Clearly nicotine isn't evil although alcohol is, sometimes. Who suffers from this lack of openness? Well, I guess the addicts but who cares about those folks anyway? So long as one can sweep those 'trailer trash' under the carpet and execute them when they become a nuisance then everyone will be happy in suburbia.

Now you're catching on!

If only the country were one big suburb, where everyone has a 5 bedroom house and room for a pony, then surely we wouldn't have these problems...

My guess is that there are more drugs (at least in dollar value) in the rich neighborhoods than the poor areas. The people involved just kill each other more often in the poor neighborhoods.

By decriminalizing the traffic part you eliminate that part of the biz. No need to hide in da' hood.

Of course, then they could just do their drug deals at Starbucks, over a nice Caramel Latte.

If our kids ask "daddy, what are those people doing?", we'll just say, "oh, those are nice people making bad choice".

I gotta say (not that you were being totally serious here) that I don't pay particular attention to what other people talk about while they're sitting in Starbucks, or a restaurant etc. For that matter your kids could hear anything in a public place - you can't protect them from everything. Sometimes you are going to have to explain for example, why two men are kissing on a park bench.

The legalisation and decriminalisation argument is perfectly valid - the drug trade is the cause of a lot of violent crime, specifically in inner city areas. Remove that market monopoly and they lose their business and a lot of their power. Its an issue that needs to be taken seriously and pragmatically, without getting hung up on decades worth of propaganda and church-related dogma.

[garya505 2]

I gotta say (not that you were being totally serious here) that I don't pay particular attention to what other people talk about while they're sitting in Starbucks, or a restaurant etc. For that matter your kids could hear anything in a public place - you can't protect them from everything. Sometimes you are going to have to explain for example, why two men are kissing on a park bench.

The legalisation and decriminalisation argument is perfectly valid - the drug trade is the cause of a lot of violent crime, specifically in inner city areas. Remove that market monopoly and they lose their business and a lot of their power. Its an issue that needs to be taken seriously and pragmatically, without getting hung up on decades worth of propaganda and church-related dogma.

I understand the legalisation and decriminalisation argument but I don't buy into it. Crime is caused by criminals. I'd just kill them off or put them in prison.

BTW, I'm not new to this. I have an arrest record.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

A lot of violent crime is caused by street gangs who profit from the currently illegal drug trade. Its their primary source of income - if they can't make a profit from selling, its clearly going to affect their business.

[natty bumppo 297]

ntxt ...

[garya505 2]

A lot of violent crime is caused by street gangs who profit from the currently illegal drug trade. Its their primary source of income - if they can't make a profit from selling, its clearly going to affect their business.

If they couldn't make a profit from drugs they would just do some other illegal activity to make money. Just like the Mafia didn't go away when alcohol became legal.

Edited January 26, 2008 by garya505

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

A lot of violent crime is caused by street gangs who profit from the currently illegal drug trade. Its their primary source of income - if they can't make a profit from selling, its clearly going to affect their business.

If they couldn't make a profit from drugs they would just do some other illegal activity to make money.

Sure. There's always going to be crime - even Judge Dredd doesn't have enough bullets for all the bad guys.

Doesn't mean legalising drugs is a bad idea.

[natty bumppo 297]

A lot of violent crime is caused by street gangs who profit from the currently illegal drug trade. Its their primary source of income - if they can't make a profit from selling, its clearly going to affect their business.

If they couldn't make a profit from drugs they would just do some other illegal activity to make money.

Sure. There's always going to be crime - even Judge Dredd doesn't have enough bullets for all the bad guys.

Doesn't mean legalising drugs is a bad idea.

Or the opposite too ....

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

A lot of violent crime is caused by street gangs who profit from the currently illegal drug trade. Its their primary source of income - if they can't make a profit from selling, its clearly going to affect their business.

If they couldn't make a profit from drugs they would just do some other illegal activity to make money.

Sure. There's always going to be crime - even Judge Dredd doesn't have enough bullets for all the bad guys.

Doesn't mean legalising drugs is a bad idea.

Or the opposite too ....

Sure. But that's just semantics at the end of the day.

[Fandango 1,439]

Legalizing drugs is not advocating drug addiction and the like...just as alcohol isn't legal to advocate drunk driving.

People are missing the point.

I know that's been said before, but it's worth noting again. The funny thing is, in econ 4 in college (I was a biz major), we studied the illegal drug problem as an economic problem...short of diminishing demand, or legalizing drugs, there's absolutely nothing we can do to diminish the criminal activity that is a result of the drug trade. We can put every dealer behind bars til the cows come home...a new one will crop up, and the short supply they may have from a seizure or two by the feds will only make the mkt value of the drugs out there higher & more in demand.

These people sell to kids...YOUNG kids. When was the last time a 10 year old could buy cigs or booze in 7-11? Or when was the last time you saw a corner dealer selling moonshine and cigarettes? Hrmmmmmm?

Edited January 26, 2008 by LisaD

[garya505 2]

Legalizing drugs is not advocating drug addiction and the like...just as alcohol isn't legal to advocate drunk driving.

People are missing the point.

I know that's been said before, but it's worth noting again. The funny thing is, in econ 4 in college (I was a biz major), we studied the illegal drug problem as an economic problem...short of diminishing demand, or legalizing drugs, there's absolutely nothing we can do to diminish the criminal activity that is a result of the drug trade. We can put every dealer behind bars til the cows come home...a new one will crop up, and the short supply they may have from a seizure or two by the feds will only make the mkt value of the drugs out there higher & more in demand.

These people sell to kids...YOUNG kids. When was the last time a 10 year old could buy cigs or booze in 7-11? Or when was the last time you saw a corner dealer selling moonshine and cigarettes? Hrmmmmmm?

It sounds like your college professor was trying to promote a liberal social position with economic analysis, and it worked (at least with you). That kind of thing worked with me too, the first time I was in college.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Legalizing drugs is not advocating drug addiction and the like...just as alcohol isn't legal to advocate drunk driving.

People are missing the point.

I know that's been said before, but it's worth noting again. The funny thing is, in econ 4 in college (I was a biz major), we studied the illegal drug problem as an economic problem...short of diminishing demand, or legalizing drugs, there's absolutely nothing we can do to diminish the criminal activity that is a result of the drug trade. We can put every dealer behind bars til the cows come home...a new one will crop up, and the short supply they may have from a seizure or two by the feds will only make the mkt value of the drugs out there higher & more in demand.

These people sell to kids...YOUNG kids. When was the last time a 10 year old could buy cigs or booze in 7-11? Or when was the last time you saw a corner dealer selling moonshine and cigarettes? Hrmmmmmm?

I agree 100%

Gooooo Lisa!!!!