Border agent hit, killed by suspect's car

[Peikko 1,575]

nothing

Edited January 23, 2008 by Purple_Hibiscus

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

is cocaine legal in columbia? i'm certain on your travels to there you've seen some of the damage it's caused.

Well yes, we do agree that it is potentially regulated at that level. Where we disagree is in thinking that it could be a disaster. After all, our government is supposed to respond to what the citizen base demands (unless you are GWB).

Is Cocaine legal in Colombia? No. Is it available for consumption in Colombia? Not like it is in the USA. That is where the great misconception lies, Charles. Colombians do not consume drugs like Americans. The cartels' specialty in that biz lies elsewhere, merely making money off of our demanding noses. As for damage... well, yes of course! Thanks to the illegality of the traffic, you have cartels that shoot up 9with bullets) rivals, competitors, buyers, sellers, moms, dads, kids, police, soldiers, etc... just like they do to those here in the USA (with crack pipes and dollar rolls) that demand their product and pay, pay, pay.

Its Colombia, not Columbia.

typing fast

of course they don't consume drugs like americans. the question is why. is there a nationwide education program about cocaine? i think not.

do you also think that if drugs like cocaine were made legal in the usa that life would be more pleasant in colombia? i think not.

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

...as a comparison, would you prefer to see cocaine and hash sold at the corner 7-11 like beer and cigs?

In my opinion that would be preferable to what is going on currently. More openness is definitely the way to go. If you are open, you can educate with greater success. It's perfectly true that you can't legislate people into making excellent personal choices at all times. You can however provide honest and factual information so that people can at least make choices based on facts.

Another benefit of decriminalization would be that there would be far more opportunity for those who want to try to kick the drug habit to able to do so. Currently it's not in the drug dealer's interest to allow people to get away from the drug culture atmosphere, they thrive on the fact that it is a subculture. In the dark they can manipulate and coerce. All this hiding and dodging and fear of getting caught plays right into the hands of the drug traffickers.

false argument there. it sure won't be in the interest of the government for them to kick it either due to the taxes. if it becomes legalized then there is even less incentive to kick it due to it being legal, no threat of arrest just for possession.

That's not the case with cigarettes. Cigarettes are significantly more expensive than they were even a few years ago mainly because of incremental tax increases. Various levels of government continue to fund anti-smoking campaigns and programs, mostly via state health departments. By your argument, the government shouldn't be encouraging people to quit smoking because of the revenue generated by cigarettes. That's not what's happening.

i'm aware of all that, remember i smoke. i've seen the price for marlboro's go from about $6 a carton to $31 a carton in 17 years. and still way cheaper than many other states, i know. what i don't like about this is smoking will become a status symbol due to the higher cost. and those same places that have funded anti-smoking campaigns have also discovered a shortfall in revenues as people quit. that's gotta be made up somewhere. hello homeowners property tax and sales tax increases!

[almaty 19]

...as a comparison, would you prefer to see cocaine and hash sold at the corner 7-11 like beer and cigs?

In my opinion that would be preferable to what is going on currently. More openness is definitely the way to go. If you are open, you can educate with greater success. It's perfectly true that you can't legislate people into making excellent personal choices at all times. You can however provide honest and factual information so that people can at least make choices based on facts.

Another benefit of decriminalization would be that there would be far more opportunity for those who want to try to kick the drug habit to able to do so. Currently it's not in the drug dealer's interest to allow people to get away from the drug culture atmosphere, they thrive on the fact that it is a subculture. In the dark they can manipulate and coerce. All this hiding and dodging and fear of getting caught plays right into the hands of the drug traffickers.

false argument there. it sure won't be in the interest of the government for them to kick it either due to the taxes. if it becomes legalized then there is even less incentive to kick it due to it being legal, no threat of arrest just for possession.

That's not the case with cigarettes. Cigarettes are significantly more expensive than they were even a few years ago mainly because of incremental tax increases. Various levels of government continue to fund anti-smoking campaigns and programs, mostly via state health departments. By your argument, the government shouldn't be encouraging people to quit smoking because of the revenue generated by cigarettes. That's not what's happening.

i'm aware of all that, remember i smoke. i've seen the price for marlboro's go from about $6 a carton to $31 a carton in 17 years. and still way cheaper than many other states, i know. what i don't like about this is smoking will become a status symbol due to the higher cost. and those same places that have funded anti-smoking campaigns have also discovered a shortfall in revenues as people quit. that's gotta be made up somewhere. hello homeowners property tax and sales tax increases!

i agree.,..allot of taxes are tacked on to the SIN tax....and the $$ as it goes down ..due to lack on consumers..needs to come from some where..else..

[Peikko 1,575]

Why? Because the average Colombian is poor and doesn't benefit from the illegal drugs trade they have no more access to the cocaine fields than they do to say a car. The average Colombian would be no worse off if the illegal drugs trade collapsed and might even be better off if drug production could be managed in a fair trade way, like say with coffee.

\

[HAL 9000 96]

is cocaine legal in columbia? i'm certain on your travels to there you've seen some of the damage it's caused.

Well yes, we do agree that it is potentially regulated at that level. Where we disagree is in thinking that it could be a disaster. After all, our government is supposed to respond to what the citizen base demands (unless you are GWB).

Is Cocaine legal in Colombia? No. Is it available for consumption in Colombia? Not like it is in the USA. That is where the great misconception lies, Charles. Colombians do not consume drugs like Americans. The cartels' specialty in that biz lies elsewhere, merely making money off of our demanding noses. As for damage... well, yes of course! Thanks to the illegality of the traffic, you have cartels that shoot up 9with bullets) rivals, competitors, buyers, sellers, moms, dads, kids, police, soldiers, etc... just like they do to those here in the USA (with crack pipes and dollar rolls) that demand their product and pay, pay, pay.

Its Colombia, not Columbia.

typing fast

of course they don't consume drugs like americans. the question is why. is there a nationwide education program about cocaine? i think not.

do you also think that if drugs like cocaine were made legal in the usa that life would be more pleasant in colombia? i think not.

No offense... Americans tend to get that one wrong a little too much...

Actually, there are several nationwide programs in Colombia that educate as to better health choices, including drug use. Call it living within one's means if you will. It is no secret that, poverty and culture aside, Colombians enjoy much better health standards than we do in the USA, again, poverty and culture aside.

No offense but based on what I've read here countless times it should be of little consequence to you whether or not Colombia enjoys or suffers a certain economic fate. Besides, Charles, current drug cartel proceeds only benefit the cartels and the politicians (North and South) that permit the trade to continue. So, the only "common" folk affected would be the farmers, and for the most part they could switch over to another cash crop. Its the demand that drives the farmer, not the farmer's choice of cash crop.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Here's a story for you. Some nice folks here in my area did some "recreational" drugs and got in a little argument which unfortunately resulted in murder. These nice folks (the ones that weren't dead) left two small children in the house to starve to death.

My best friend in high school ruined his life with cocaine. My cousin got drunk and killed to people in a car crash.

That's the reality of drugs, not some "let's legalize it and everything will be OK" bull #######.

Some people have addictive personalities. They are destructive with their life in whatever avenues their addictive personality takes them, often hurting the lives of those closest to them. Decriminalizing drugs isn't advocating an addiction, just as keeping alcohol consumption legal isn't advocating drunk driving. Drug enforcement has been a blundering failure in this country - many outspoken Conservatives agree with that. It would be great to wave a wand and stop all addictive behavior, but the most realistic approach is working through social programs that address addiction. That would go a long way in reducing the kinds of destructive behavior that you witnessed in your life.

[HAL 9000 96]

And... cigs are more heavily taxed now. Maybe its a disaster for a smoker to have to pay more for a nicotine fix... but for society as a whole, the effect is positive=

1. Less second hand smoke -> less future cancer rates

2. Less consumption of cigs -> less health insurance premiums to pay, less future health care premiums, people living healthier lives

3. More cig taxes -> more public funds to educate and fund social improvement projects in the short term. In the long term as less people smoke, the tax can be gradually phased away.

[garya505 2]

...as a comparison, would you prefer to see cocaine and hash sold at the corner 7-11 like beer and cigs?

In my opinion that would be preferable to what is going on currently. More openness is definitely the way to go. If you are open, you can educate with greater success. It's perfectly true that you can't legislate people into making excellent personal choices at all times. You can however provide honest and factual information so that people can at least make choices based on facts.

Another benefit of decriminalization would be that there would be far more opportunity for those who want to try to kick the drug habit to able to do so. Currently it's not in the drug dealer's interest to allow people to get away from the drug culture atmosphere, they thrive on the fact that it is a subculture. In the dark they can manipulate and coerce. All this hiding and dodging and fear of getting caught plays right into the hands of the drug traffickers.

What a load of #######.

[HAL 9000 96]

Ph is definitely on to something logical, however jagged it may be for some to bear.

And it seems they caught the guy in Mexico responsible for the killing in the original OP article. Good.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

...as a comparison, would you prefer to see cocaine and hash sold at the corner 7-11 like beer and cigs?

In my opinion that would be preferable to what is going on currently. More openness is definitely the way to go. If you are open, you can educate with greater success. It's perfectly true that you can't legislate people into making excellent personal choices at all times. You can however provide honest and factual information so that people can at least make choices based on facts.

Another benefit of decriminalization would be that there would be far more opportunity for those who want to try to kick the drug habit to able to do so. Currently it's not in the drug dealer's interest to allow people to get away from the drug culture atmosphere, they thrive on the fact that it is a subculture. In the dark they can manipulate and coerce. All this hiding and dodging and fear of getting caught plays right into the hands of the drug traffickers.

What a load of #######.

Nice refutating of the argument

[Peikko 1,575]

Ah never mind. Drugs = devil. Some drugs anyway. Clearly nicotine isn't evil although alcohol is, sometimes. Who suffers from this lack of openness? Well, I guess the addicts but who cares about those folks anyway? So long as one can sweep those 'trailer trash' under the carpet and execute them when they become a nuisance then everyone will be happy in suburbia.

[HAL 9000 96]

Ah never mind. Drugs = devil. Some drugs anyway. Clearly nicotine isn't evil although alcohol is, sometimes. Who suffers from this lack of openness? Well, I guess the addicts but who cares about those folks anyway? So long as one can sweep those 'trailer trash' under the carpet and execute them when they become a nuisance then everyone will be happy in suburbia.

I think consumption is higher in suburbia than it is in inner cities and trashy areas...

The demand is where the money is at...

[garya505 2]

...as a comparison, would you prefer to see cocaine and hash sold at the corner 7-11 like beer and cigs?

In my opinion that would be preferable to what is going on currently. More openness is definitely the way to go. If you are open, you can educate with greater success. It's perfectly true that you can't legislate people into making excellent personal choices at all times. You can however provide honest and factual information so that people can at least make choices based on facts.

Another benefit of decriminalization would be that there would be far more opportunity for those who want to try to kick the drug habit to able to do so. Currently it's not in the drug dealer's interest to allow people to get away from the drug culture atmosphere, they thrive on the fact that it is a subculture. In the dark they can manipulate and coerce. All this hiding and dodging and fear of getting caught plays right into the hands of the drug traffickers.

What a load of #######.

Nice refutating of the argument

Thank you. B)

Ah never mind. Drugs = devil. Some drugs anyway. Clearly nicotine isn't evil although alcohol is, sometimes. Who suffers from this lack of openness? Well, I guess the addicts but who cares about those folks anyway? So long as one can sweep those 'trailer trash' under the carpet and execute them when they become a nuisance then everyone will be happy in suburbia.

Now you're catching on!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

...as a comparison, would you prefer to see cocaine and hash sold at the corner 7-11 like beer and cigs?

In my opinion that would be preferable to what is going on currently. More openness is definitely the way to go. If you are open, you can educate with greater success. It's perfectly true that you can't legislate people into making excellent personal choices at all times. You can however provide honest and factual information so that people can at least make choices based on facts.

Another benefit of decriminalization would be that there would be far more opportunity for those who want to try to kick the drug habit to able to do so. Currently it's not in the drug dealer's interest to allow people to get away from the drug culture atmosphere, they thrive on the fact that it is a subculture. In the dark they can manipulate and coerce. All this hiding and dodging and fear of getting caught plays right into the hands of the drug traffickers.

What a load of #######.

Nice refutating of the argument

Thank you. B)

Ah never mind. Drugs = devil. Some drugs anyway. Clearly nicotine isn't evil although alcohol is, sometimes. Who suffers from this lack of openness? Well, I guess the addicts but who cares about those folks anyway? So long as one can sweep those 'trailer trash' under the carpet and execute them when they become a nuisance then everyone will be happy in suburbia.

Now you're catching on!

If only the country were one big suburb, where everyone has a 5 bedroom house and room for a pony, then surely we wouldn't have these problems...