Border agent hit, killed by suspect's car

[garya505 2]

People make choices... both wonderful and stupid ones. You can't police choice, but you can educate it.

yes, you can.

Yeah, you're right. Its called creating an underground demand for an illegal product.

It also doesn't guarantee success. And as the present situation demonstrates - clearly it doesn't and hasn't worked.

The only guarantees in life are that you will pay taxes and die.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

People make choices... both wonderful and stupid ones. You can't police choice, but you can educate it.

yes, you can.

Yeah, you're right. Its called creating an underground demand for an illegal product.

It also doesn't guarantee success. And as the present situation demonstrates - clearly it doesn't and hasn't worked.

The only guarantees in life are that you will pay taxes and die.

Its also a fair bet that during your lifetime you'll be exposed to some forms of risk.

[HAL 9000 96]

People make choices... both wonderful and stupid ones. You can't police choice, but you can educate it.

yes, you can.

Yeah, you're right. Its called creating an underground demand for an illegal product.

if it were legalized as some wish, it may still well be an underground demand depending on what price controls the government puts in effect.

and i don't know about you, but any program the government tries to run usually ends in disaster.

Why?

Alcohol seems to be doing quite well with the public. As a matter of fact, its significantly cheaper in the USA than in other poorer nations which coincidentally do not have alcohol cartels that cater to a domestic (their own) demand. Alcohol trafficking is long-gone in Prohibition.

[garya505 2]

People make choices... both wonderful and stupid ones. You can't police choice, but you can educate it.

yes, you can.

Yeah, you're right. Its called creating an underground demand for an illegal product.

if it were legalized as some wish, it may still well be an underground demand depending on what price controls the government puts in effect.

and i don't know about you, but any program the government tries to run usually ends in disaster.

Why?

Alcohol seems to be doing quite well with the public. As a matter of fact, its significantly cheaper in the USA than in other poorer nations which coincidentally do not have alcohol cartels that cater to a domestic (their own) demand. Alcohol trafficking is long-gone in Prohibition.

Well, take a look at the so-called "medical marijuana" program in California. What a mess.

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

People make choices... both wonderful and stupid ones. You can't police choice, but you can educate it.

yes, you can.

Yeah, you're right. Its called creating an underground demand for an illegal product.

if it were legalized as some wish, it may still well be an underground demand depending on what price controls the government puts in effect.

and i don't know about you, but any program the government tries to run usually ends in disaster.

Why?

Alcohol seems to be doing quite well with the public. As a matter of fact, its significantly cheaper in the USA than in other poorer nations which coincidentally do not have alcohol cartels that cater to a domestic (their own) demand. Alcohol trafficking is long-gone in Prohibition.

the government only taxes it. they don't control the distribution of it.

as a comparison, would you prefer to see cocaine and hash sold at the corner 7-11 like beer and cigs?

[SMOKE 1,426]

Why?

Alcohol seems to be doing quite well with the public. As a matter of fact, its significantly cheaper in the USA than in other poorer nations which coincidentally do not have alcohol cartels that cater to a domestic (their own) demand. Alcohol trafficking is long-gone in Prohibition.

really? where? every poorer nation i've visited alcohol was real cheap.

[HAL 9000 96]

People make choices... both wonderful and stupid ones. You can't police choice, but you can educate it.

yes, you can.

Yeah, you're right. Its called creating an underground demand for an illegal product.

if it were legalized as some wish, it may still well be an underground demand depending on what price controls the government puts in effect.

and i don't know about you, but any program the government tries to run usually ends in disaster.

Why?

Alcohol seems to be doing quite well with the public. As a matter of fact, its significantly cheaper in the USA than in other poorer nations which coincidentally do not have alcohol cartels that cater to a domestic (their own) demand. Alcohol trafficking is long-gone in Prohibition.

Well, take a look at the so-called "medical marijuana" program in California. What a mess.

A mess because of the tug of war between gun-ho politicians, purists, and the pro-legalization crowds.

Ask the patients, maybe they won't agree with you.

[Peikko 1,575]

...as a comparison, would you prefer to see cocaine and hash sold at the corner 7-11 like beer and cigs?

In my opinion that would be preferable to what is going on currently. More openness is definitely the way to go. If you are open, you can educate with greater success. It's perfectly true that you can't legislate people into making excellent personal choices at all times. You can however provide honest and factual information so that people can at least make choices based on facts.

Another benefit of decriminalization would be that there would be far more opportunity for those who want to try to kick the drug habit to able to do so. Currently it's not in the drug dealer's interest to allow people to get away from the drug culture atmosphere, they thrive on the fact that it is a subculture. In the dark they can manipulate and coerce. All this hiding and dodging and fear of getting caught plays right into the hands of the drug traffickers.

Edited January 23, 2008 by Purple_Hibiscus

[HAL 9000 96]

People make choices... both wonderful and stupid ones. You can't police choice, but you can educate it.

yes, you can.

Yeah, you're right. Its called creating an underground demand for an illegal product.

if it were legalized as some wish, it may still well be an underground demand depending on what price controls the government puts in effect.

and i don't know about you, but any program the government tries to run usually ends in disaster.

Why?

Alcohol seems to be doing quite well with the public. As a matter of fact, its significantly cheaper in the USA than in other poorer nations which coincidentally do not have alcohol cartels that cater to a domestic (their own) demand. Alcohol trafficking is long-gone in Prohibition.

the government only taxes it. they don't control the distribution of it.

as a comparison, would you prefer to see cocaine and hash sold at the corner 7-11 like beer and cigs?

The government would control that just like local government ordinance controls the sale of licor on certain days of the week. Then again, the regulation would not be expected to be at a 1:1 level like alcohol, at least at the logical level.

I'd expect it to be done more so like prescription drugs or at least a little more tightly controlled.

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

...as a comparison, would you prefer to see cocaine and hash sold at the corner 7-11 like beer and cigs?

In my opinion that would be preferable to what is going on currently. More openness is definitely the way to go. If you are open, you can educate with greater success. It's perfectly true that you can't legislate people into making excellent personal choices at all times. You can however provide honest and factual information so that people can at least make choices based on facts.

Another benefit of decriminalization would be that there would be far more opportunity for those who want to try to kick the drug habit to able to do so. Currently it's not in the drug dealer's interest to allow people to get away from the drug culture atmosphere, they thrive on the fact that it is a subculture. In the dark they can manipulate and coerce. All this hiding and dodging and fear of getting caught plays right into the hands of the drug traffickers.

false argument there. it sure won't be in the interest of the government for them to kick it either due to the taxes. if it becomes legalized then there is even less incentive to kick it due to it being legal, no threat of arrest just for possession.

[HAL 9000 96]

Why?

Alcohol seems to be doing quite well with the public. As a matter of fact, its significantly cheaper in the USA than in other poorer nations which coincidentally do not have alcohol cartels that cater to a domestic (their own) demand. Alcohol trafficking is long-gone in Prohibition.

really? where? every poorer nation i've visited alcohol was real cheap.

Colombia, Brazil, Venezuela, Panama with certain exceptions, Dominican Republic, Bolivia.

The price was also more expensive when compared dollar for dollar in Spain, France, Italy, UK... so its not just a matter of rich vs. poor.

Fact of the matter is that the product is legal and available and marketed.

Whether or not people make good choices is, well... equally universal, but places that seem to have more lax laws as to procurement of controllable substances, including alcohol, usually do not have the social and cultural stigmas that we have here as a result of being hypocritical in our approach to enforcing smarter choices and controlling choice.

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

People make choices... both wonderful and stupid ones. You can't police choice, but you can educate it.

yes, you can.

Yeah, you're right. Its called creating an underground demand for an illegal product.

if it were legalized as some wish, it may still well be an underground demand depending on what price controls the government puts in effect.

and i don't know about you, but any program the government tries to run usually ends in disaster.

Why?

Alcohol seems to be doing quite well with the public. As a matter of fact, its significantly cheaper in the USA than in other poorer nations which coincidentally do not have alcohol cartels that cater to a domestic (their own) demand. Alcohol trafficking is long-gone in Prohibition.

the government only taxes it. they don't control the distribution of it.

as a comparison, would you prefer to see cocaine and hash sold at the corner 7-11 like beer and cigs?

The government would control that just like local government ordinance controls the sale of licor on certain days of the week. Then again, the regulation would not be expected to be at a 1:1 level like alcohol, at least at the logical level.

I'd expect it to be done more so like prescription drugs or at least a little more tightly controlled.

which matches my previous statement, and another posters, of the government having another program to run and that it would turn into a disaster.

Why?

Alcohol seems to be doing quite well with the public. As a matter of fact, its significantly cheaper in the USA than in other poorer nations which coincidentally do not have alcohol cartels that cater to a domestic (their own) demand. Alcohol trafficking is long-gone in Prohibition.

really? where? every poorer nation i've visited alcohol was real cheap.

Colombia, Brazil, Venezuela, Panama with certain exceptions, Dominican Republic, Bolivia.

The price was also more expensive when compared dollar for dollar in Spain, France, Italy, UK... so its not just a matter of rich vs. poor.

Fact of the matter is that the product is legal and available and marketed.

Whether or not people make good choices is, well... equally universal, but places that seem to have more lax laws as to procurement of controllable substances, including alcohol, usually do not have the social and cultural stigmas that we have here as a result of being hypocritical in our approach to enforcing smarter choices and controlling choice.

is cocaine legal in columbia? i'm certain on your travels to there you've seen some of the damage it's caused.

[HAL 9000 96]

...as a comparison, would you prefer to see cocaine and hash sold at the corner 7-11 like beer and cigs?

In my opinion that would be preferable to what is going on currently. More openness is definitely the way to go. If you are open, you can educate with greater success. It's perfectly true that you can't legislate people into making excellent personal choices at all times. You can however provide honest and factual information so that people can at least make choices based on facts.

Another benefit of decriminalization would be that there would be far more opportunity for those who want to try to kick the drug habit to able to do so. Currently it's not in the drug dealer's interest to allow people to get away from the drug culture atmosphere, they thrive on the fact that it is a subculture. In the dark they can manipulate and coerce. All this hiding and dodging and fear of getting caught plays right into the hands of the drug traffickers.

false argument there. it sure won't be in the interest of the government for them to kick it either due to the taxes. if it becomes legalized then there is even less incentive to kick it due to it being legal, no threat of arrest just for possession.

Maybe not a pessimistic view of a government, but perhaps if the legislation was worded appropriately, even the most pessimistic citizens out there can agree that education can go hand in hand with a gradual phase out of a particular market.

[HAL 9000 96]

is cocaine legal in columbia? i'm certain on your travels to there you've seen some of the damage it's caused.

Well yes, we do agree that it is potentially regulated at that level. Where we disagree is in thinking that it could be a disaster. After all, our government is supposed to respond to what the citizen base demands (unless you are GWB).

Is Cocaine legal in Colombia? No. Is it available for consumption in Colombia? Not like it is in the USA. That is where the great misconception lies, Charles. Colombians do not consume drugs like Americans. The cartels' specialty in that biz lies elsewhere, merely making money off of our demanding noses. As for damage... well, yes of course! Thanks to the illegality of the traffic, you have cartels that shoot up 9with bullets) rivals, competitors, buyers, sellers, moms, dads, kids, police, soldiers, etc... just like they do to those here in the USA (with crack pipes and dollar rolls) that demand their product and pay, pay, pay.

Its Colombia, not Columbia.

[Empress of Groovy 373]

...as a comparison, would you prefer to see cocaine and hash sold at the corner 7-11 like beer and cigs?

In my opinion that would be preferable to what is going on currently. More openness is definitely the way to go. If you are open, you can educate with greater success. It's perfectly true that you can't legislate people into making excellent personal choices at all times. You can however provide honest and factual information so that people can at least make choices based on facts.

Another benefit of decriminalization would be that there would be far more opportunity for those who want to try to kick the drug habit to able to do so. Currently it's not in the drug dealer's interest to allow people to get away from the drug culture atmosphere, they thrive on the fact that it is a subculture. In the dark they can manipulate and coerce. All this hiding and dodging and fear of getting caught plays right into the hands of the drug traffickers.

false argument there. it sure won't be in the interest of the government for them to kick it either due to the taxes. if it becomes legalized then there is even less incentive to kick it due to it being legal, no threat of arrest just for possession.

That's not the case with cigarettes. Cigarettes are significantly more expensive than they were even a few years ago mainly because of incremental tax increases. Various levels of government continue to fund anti-smoking campaigns and programs, mostly via state health departments. By your argument, the government shouldn't be encouraging people to quit smoking because of the revenue generated by cigarettes. That's not what's happening.