Police: Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting

[Peikko 1,575]

I don't know, but I get the feeling that there is an inabilty to discern the difference between human morality and animal instinct. Human's make all kinds of 'judgements' about their fellows. Animals don't. If you are in the right place, at the right time and you look like prey, that's what you become. It could have been anyone, it just so happens it was three teenagers who some of you have made the moral judement that they deserved their punishment so the fact that the animal escaped has become a 'good thing' rather than what it is, a tragic accident.

[Peikko 1,575]

where does it say that?

Have you not heard the 911 tapes? For at least 10 minutes they discussed the incident as a hoax saying that the boys were making up the fact that a tiger had escaped.

[♥JP♥ 5]

I do think the Zoo is ultimatly responsible for this. I read that in May a former zoo contractor filed a sexual harrasment lawsuit, basically he lost his job there because he wouldnt accept his managers advances. This manager also never took seriously the safety concerns he had (which is why he was hired), one of those being the tiger's grotto. Now this is all in a lawsuit that was filed in May...7 months before the attack. The zoo is responsible for making sure the visitors are safe.

I have visisted the zoo several times and the most recent visit was last November, it freaks me out knowing that it wasnt a safe place to be. However I DO think the victims share some responsibility. They put their lives at risk and the lives of the others around them. Yes the tiger should have not been able to get out, but they should have not been taunting the tiger either. I honestly don't think another 4 feet of wall would have keep a very agitated tiger from getting out of that grotto.

What if you were there at the same time with a small child and that tiger attacked you or the small child instead of the people that taunted the tiger? Who would you hold responsible?

[Sister Fracas 5]

I don't know, but I get the feeling that there is an inabilty to discern the difference between human morality and animal instinct. Human's make all kinds of 'judgements' about their fellows. Animals don't. If you are in the right place, at the right time and you look like prey, that's what you become. It could have been anyone, it just so happens it was three teenagers who some of you have made the moral judement that they deserved their punishment so the fact that the animal escaped has become a 'good thing' rather than what it is, a tragic accident.

you must be kidding....

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

There's no way around "doesn't meet standards" - especially in you consider the given at the zoo in 1996 where a visitor told zoo staff that a Tiger had jumped and got its foot over the edge of the wall.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I honestly don't think another 4 feet of wall would have keep a very agitated tiger from getting out of that grotto.

Well... I can jump over a 4 foot wall. I can't jump over a 10 foot wall - at least... not without a pole vault.

My cat can jump from the floor to a kitchen countertop, but he can't jump from the floor to the top of the fridge.

Same logic applies surely...

[Peikko 1,575]

No, I'm not. If it had been a child that was attacked, even if he had been pulling faces or whatever, no one would be saying it was the kids fault. The only reason anyone is saying the teenagers bear any responsibilty for this is because they were drunk/high. Yes, they were taunting the tiger too, that doesn't make them 'nice' kids but it doesn't make them evil or deserving their fate either and yet I have heard that said more than once...not least the 'darwin' theory of survival.

[SteveLaura 0]

1) Wild animals should be kept in enclosures that are secure enough to contain them.

2) If you don't want your animals to be taunted, keep humans out of your zoo.

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

This is where I sit. Both zoo and victim are to blame.

phew, I thought I had to pick a side

yeah, the teenager shouldn't have teased and taunted the tiger but the tiger shouldn't have been able to get out of his enclosure either...

[Sister Fracas 5]

No, I'm not. If it had been a child that was attacked, even if he had been pulling faces or whatever, no one would be saying it was the kids fault. The only reason anyone is saying the teenagers bear any responsibilty for this is because they were drunk/high. Yes, they were taunting the tiger too, that doesn't make them 'nice' kids but it doesn't make them evil or deserving their fate either and yet I have heard that said more than once...not least the 'darwin' theory of survival.

Like I said, if it makes me a bad person that I feel sorry for the cat...so be it. I don't think anyone DESERVED to die. It was tragic all the way around. Maybe the San Fran Zoo IS a pit that needs to be shut down, I don't know.

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

The fact is that these are wild animals and we can't know every possibility when a WILD animal is provoked. People do seem to forget that because the animals seem all fluffy and docile in their exhibit that their behavior is still unpredictable. What I know about zoo exhibit design after working at a zoo for 10 years is that when they design an exhibit for a lion or tiger, they take what knowledge is already out there about how far and how high a cat can jump and then they make those distances of the moats quite a bit wider and higher and if you look at a moat for a big cat you'll notice that the visitor side is not just straight across, but also usually higher than the cat side so that they would not only have to jump across but also jump higher. A tiger or lion is a heavy cat, not usually able to make a jump like that. You'll never see a leopard with amazing jumping ability, in the same kind of exhibit. You can say all you want about San Fran Zoo being negilgent, but there was a saying I remember quite well from my training at the zoo and that was that excitement, provocation AND fear break down barriers in the mind of a wild animal and they can do something they normally wouldn't be able to. Perhaps this was jsut a plain old fight-or-flight response. What I hope people get out of this incident is that these animals need to be respected for what they are. I saw many things that angered the living sh*t out of me when people would taunt the big cats (that was the house I worked in most often) and I tell you I wouldn't have minded taking some of those pople and just letting one of the big cats give them a feline slap on the wrist!!! The other thing that saddens me more than anything is that another endangered animal had to die because of the behavior of some punk idiots. There I said it....I'm more sorry for the life of the cat. If that makes me a bad person, so be it.

ita

[♥JP♥ 5]

I honestly don't think another 4 feet of wall would have keep a very agitated tiger from getting out of that grotto.

Well... I can jump over a 4 foot wall. I can't jump over a 10 foot wall - at least... not without a pole vault.

My cat can jump from the floor to a kitchen countertop, but he can't jump from the floor to the top of the fridge.

Same logic applies surely...

The autopsy said the tigers claws were broken and severly scratched up which indicates to me that she didn't jump over the wall, she clawed her way up. I think this is something that the zoo is still questioning.

[Sister Fracas 5]

1) Wild animals should be kept in enclosures that are secure enough to contain them.

Since these ARE wild animals, the only way to completely ensure total safety of the public is to put all of the dangerous animals in triple paned glass enclosers with bars in front...and even then there is the possibility for human error and someone letting an animal out. Animal behavior is unpredictable and even when you think you know the capability of an animal in an enclosure, you don't. Pure and simple.

The autopsy said the tigers claws were broken and severly scratched up which indicates to me that she didn't jump over the wall, she clawed her way up. I think this is something that the zoo is still questioning.

yes, they found concrete in the back claws.

[SteveLaura 0]

Since these ARE wild animals, the only way to completely ensure total safety of the public is to put all of the dangerous animals in triple paned glass enclosers with bars in front...and even then there is the possibility for human error and someone letting an animal out. Animal behavior is unpredictable and even when you think you know the capability of an animal in an enclosure, you don't. Pure and simple.

At present, the human error in this case appears to be that the wall wasn't high enough. Because animal behaviour is so unpredictable, it makes it even more paramount that all precautions are taken. And then double them. At first glance, to me it would seem that the zoo were more concerned with allowing people to gawp at the tigers as close as possible - more exciting, more money - than with doing anything about keeping the public safe.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I honestly don't think another 4 feet of wall would have keep a very agitated tiger from getting out of that grotto.

Well... I can jump over a 4 foot wall. I can't jump over a 10 foot wall - at least... not without a pole vault.

My cat can jump from the floor to a kitchen countertop, but he can't jump from the floor to the top of the fridge.

Same logic applies surely...

The autopsy said the tigers claws were broken and severly scratched up which indicates to me that she didn't jump over the wall, she clawed her way up. I think this is something that the zoo is still questioning.

True. But it still doesn't change the discovery that the wall was below the recommended height, or again - the incident reported in 1996.