Police: Tiger attack victim was drinking, admitted taunting

[Jenn! 918]

The other thing that saddens me more than anything is that another endangered animal had to die because of the behavior of some punk idiots. There I said it....I'm more sorry for the life of the cat. If that makes me a bad person, so be it.

I have such a hard time understanding this POV. If the guys had not been drunk/high when they were taunting the tiger, would that change how you felt about it?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I certainly don't blame the tiger, and its certainly tragic that it was shot, but clearly if the wall was a metre below the nationally recommended height for big cat enclosures - that has got to play a pretty key part in what happened.

As PH said, and you've said too - people taunt animals in zoos. It happens. Its hardly ideal - but that for me is one argument against zoos in general. They do a lot of good conservation work - but I don't agree with keeping animals locked up.

[Peikko 1,575]

There the point right there, you know as a zoo worker that humans taunt animals. Sober, drunk, old, young. I don't think anyone is arguing that taunting animals, wild or otherwise is a good thing. However, that still doesn't change the responsibility of the zoo. This zoo's facility did not meet the standards and that is why the tiger escaped.

The zoo has a responsibilty to ensure that their wild animals can't harm the visitors regardless of how they act, after all, who really knows exactly what does taunt an animal? Maybe a bright red sweater and feathered hat would be enough to scare the living daylights out of some animals. Is it the responsibility of the zoo to know exactly what provocation would result in an animal escaping? No, it's responsibilty is to prevent the animals from being able to escape, period.

[Sister Fracas 5]

The other thing that saddens me more than anything is that another endangered animal had to die because of the behavior of some punk idiots. There I said it....I'm more sorry for the life of the cat. If that makes me a bad person, so be it.

I have such a hard time understanding this POV. If the guys had not been drunk/high when they were taunting the tiger, would that change how you felt about it?

If they were taunting...they were taunting, regardless of drunk/high status.

[Jenn! 918]

The other thing that saddens me more than anything is that another endangered animal had to die because of the behavior of some punk idiots. There I said it....I'm more sorry for the life of the cat. If that makes me a bad person, so be it.

I have such a hard time understanding this POV. If the guys had not been drunk/high when they were taunting the tiger, would that change how you felt about it?

If they were taunting...they were taunting, regardless of drunk/high status.

So taunting animals makes a human life of less value than the animal's?

[Peikko 1,575]

As I said, how can we be sure that what we think is taunting is actually the most scary part of the animal's day? It could be something we don't even imagine could be frightening. That's how animals are, sheesh, who's owned a pet and not got a story of their animal being spooked by something really quite every day and ordinary?

[slim 1,525]

I don't see how Slim is right at all. The fact is, he made a judgement about wild animals capability of distinguishing between drunk/high humans and ones who are not. That's complete bullshite right there. We have no idea if they can/can't make that discernment, nor what they would 'think about it' should they be able to do so. Can they for instance tell the difference between someone who's had one drink and is slightly merry and several drinks and is maudlin?

However again, that's simply imaterial. The fact is, zoo's are aware of the fact the people do taunt the animals both knowingly and unknowingly. That is why zoos ensure that their exhibits cannot escape, that's why there are safety guidlines. The fact is that this zoo's safety measures were inadequate, not simpy in terms of the fact that the tiger escaped, but also in terms of their adherence to the current standards.

For the behaviour of the teenagers to be relevant to the escape of the tiger, they have to have materially affected the ability of the tiger to escape. That has not been proved, nor has anything else, beyond the initial suggestion that the tiger 'clawed its way up one of the boys' legs, which appears now to be groundless, been suggested that shows they had any hand in the tiger's escape from its enclosure.

So, the fact that they were drunk/high has absolutely no bearing on their being mauled/killed.

So an animal, who's instincts are to "pick out the weak one to kill" can't tell the difference between the family pushing the toddler in the stroller with the 5-year-old brother who likes to make faces and growl at it and the three drunk/high people who are acting very, very "different" from the normal people it sees all day? Especially after this animal has spent years and years getting to know it's habitat and studying it's "prey", looking at them all day long and learning their habits and behavioral patterns.

Why wouldn't they attack when a "target of opportunity" came along?

And for the record, H&S inspector is a bull$#!t job. How do people survive without someone out there "protecting" them from all the dangerous things in the world? If we continue to have H&S inspectors "controlling" all the unhealthy or unsafe parts of our lives, we may just lose our instincts to deal with them in a healthy and safe way.

[Sister Fracas 5]

This zoo's facility did not meet the standards and that is why the tiger escaped.

However, in the same article quoted above....

Mollinedo said the grotto, built in 1940, was inspected several years ago by officials from the American Zoological Association and "they raised no concerns about the wall."

I would put more of the blame on AZA...they are the accrediting body that is responsible for checking out zoos to make sure animals are being kept well, exhibits are safe, etc, etc. Why didn't AZA make a recommendation several years ago if there was new information out there that said walls should be 20 feet high, or however high they should be.

The other thing that saddens me more than anything is that another endangered animal had to die because of the behavior of some punk idiots. There I said it....I'm more sorry for the life of the cat. If that makes me a bad person, so be it.

I have such a hard time understanding this POV. If the guys had not been drunk/high when they were taunting the tiger, would that change how you felt about it?

If they were taunting...they were taunting, regardless of drunk/high status.

So taunting animals makes a human life of less value than the animal's?

I hold human and animal life in EQUAL regard. I guess I need to clarify that I don't think the guy SHOULD have died.

Edited January 18, 2008 by Sister Fracas

[Peikko 1,575]

So an animal, who's instincts are to "pick out the weak one to kill" can't tell the difference between the family pushing the toddler in the stroller with the 5-year-old brother who likes to make faces and growl at it

Being able to distinguish a difference and making a 'moral judgement' on those differences is really quite a seperate issue don't you think? I would imagine for most big cats a nice juicy five year old would be quite the appetiser, while most adults would be too big to be seen as prey.

Health and safety is totally relevant to our modern world. It is quite impossible to 'recognise' every concievable man made hazard and to somehow expect us to have some 'instinct' to be able to 'sniff' them out is quite ridiculous.

I would put more of the blame on AZA...they are the accrediting body that is responsible for checking out zoos to make sure animals are being kept well, exhibits are safe, etc, etc. Why didn't AZA make a recommendation several years ago if there was new information out there that said walls should be 20 feet high, or however high they should be.

Maybe there is some blame to be laid there. I don't know. However, it's the fact that the tiger could escape that's the problem, not the fact that human's scare wild animals.

[Peikko 1,575]

I have at no point tried to argue that the tiger wasn't acting on instinct in attacking the teenagers. However, quite simply, the tiger shouldn't have had the opportunity.

It is sad that the zoo officials didn't take the call seriously and didn't come and tranquilise the cat rather than it being shot to death but that's how it came down and I don't think anyone would have expected the police officers to get injured as well just to save the tiger.

[Sister Fracas 5]

So an animal, who's instincts are to "pick out the weak one to kill" can't tell the difference between the family pushing the toddler in the stroller with the 5-year-old brother who likes to make faces and growl at it and the three drunk/high people who are acting very, very "different" from the normal people it sees all day? Especially after this animal has spent years and years getting to know it's habitat and studying it's "prey", looking at them all day long and learning their habits and behavioral patterns.

Why wouldn't they attack when a "target of opportunity" came along?

That is a good point....these animals know their territory VERY well, if they feel it's being encroached, they go into wild animal behavior.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

And for the record, H&S inspector is a bull$#!t job. How do people survive without someone out there "protecting" them from all the dangerous things in the world? If we continue to have H&S inspectors "controlling" all the unhealthy or unsafe parts of our lives, we may just lose our instincts to deal with them in a healthy and safe way.

A B/S job? With all due respect I don't think you know what you're talking about.

[Peikko 1,575]

These animals are always in 'wild animal behaviour'. That's what they are, wild animals and that's why there are standards of care to ensure visitors remain safe regardless of how they behave.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

Have any tigers escaped since the grotto was built in 1940? If not, it was probably more than sufficient and something else might be factored in, like foul play.

[Sister Fracas 5]

It is sad that the zoo officials didn't take the call seriously

where does it say that?