Viet Nam -v- Vietnam

[Teacher Mark 53]

When we began this journey one of the first things I noticed was the difference in the way Americans spelled Viet Nam's name. Does anyone know why it is different?

[Teacher Mark 53]

When we began this journey one of the first things I noticed was the difference in the way Americans spelled Viet Nam's name. Does anyone know why it is different?

I'm so bored that I'm answering my own posts. I finally punched in the right Google combination and evidently I'm not the only one losing sleep over this!

http://www.lib.washington.edu/southeastasi...ietnamORVN.html

http://www.asian-nation.org/vietnam-history.shtml

Edited January 13, 2008 by WideAwakeInTheUSA

[dalegg 143]

Most of what the Vietnamese do is crazy. Every now and then we Americans need to go over there and show them what they are doing wrong. They don't always listen to us.

[PeterFB 0]

Interesting links. Thanks

Peter and Thi

I-129F Sent : 2007-05-26

I-129F NOA1 : 2007-06-11

I-129F RFE(s) :

RFE Reply(s) :

I-129F NOA2 : 2007-10-26

Touched: 2007-11-02

NVC Recieved: 2007-11-16

Consulate recieved ??????

Packet 3 sent 2007-12-11

Packet 3 received 2007-12-24

Packet 3 returned 2007-12-28

[Melrose Plant 1]

If you read the first article through to its conclusion, I really can't add anything beyond that. But, even I had trouble following through the whole thread given my current state of mind. So I will try to summarize for the rest of you.

My fiancee uses "Vietnam" when she writes in English, vs. Việt Nam. Also, Hanoi instead of Hà Nội, Saigon instead of Sài Gòn. Although, for the last example, she would probably write HCMC (Ho Chi Minh City). In Vietnamese, this would be Tp HCM. (Thành Phố Hồ Chí Minh).

This is really a convenience for English speakers/writers. Through a quirk of history, Vietnamese is written with a space between every syllable. This leads some to believe that Vietnamese is a monosyllabic language, and you will read this in many tourist-type guidebooks/dictionaries. IT IS NOT, believe me. You'll find that out real quick when you're looking up words in a real dictionary. Việt Nam is one word with two syllables in the Vietnamese language. It makes sense we would write it as one word in English.

So, in summary, I will continue to write Hanoi, Vietnam, Saigon, and HCMC when writing in English.

P.S. Why do so few white guys speak Vietnamese? I'm not that great at it, but I do try. C'mon, it is NOT that hard. Please make the effort to get to know your wife a little better. With not too much effort, you can see the fog lift between you. It's wonderful!

[Teacher Mark 53]

If you read the first article through to its conclusion, I really can't add anything beyond that. But, even I had trouble following through the whole thread given my current state of mind. So I will try to summarize for the rest of you.

My fiancee uses "Vietnam" when she writes in English, vs. Việt Nam. Also, Hanoi instead of Hà Nội, Saigon instead of Sài Gòn. Although, for the last example, she would probably write HCMC (Ho Chi Minh City). In Vietnamese, this would be Tp HCM. (Thành Phố Hồ Chí Minh).

This is really a convenience for English speakers/writers. Through a quirk of history, Vietnamese is written with a space between every syllable. This leads some to believe that Vietnamese is a monosyllabic language, and you will read this in many tourist-type guidebooks/dictionaries. IT IS NOT, believe me. You'll find that out real quick when you're looking up words in a real dictionary. Việt Nam is one word with two syllables in the Vietnamese language. It makes sense we would write it as one word in English.

So, in summary, I will continue to write Hanoi, Vietnam, Saigon, and HCMC when writing in English.

P.S. Why do so few white guys speak Vietnamese? I'm not that great at it, but I do try. C'mon, it is NOT that hard. Please make the effort to get to know your wife a little better. With not too much effort, you can see the fog lift between you. It's wonderful!

Thanks for the replies Gentlemen. I am making the effort (though I admit I could do a little better) to learn Vietnamese MP. Obviously I am interested in her and her country or I wouldn't be on this site asking questions. Before we met my Vietnamese consisted of lines from Platoon (did you know Johnny Depp had a small role as the Interpreter Werner? http://imdb.com/character/ch0004725/ ) and Full Metal Jacket. I can get them on them floor or clear a room in a hurry!

We started this Journey In July so it really hasn't been that long and I am 41, so a few brain cells have been wasted on the way.

P.S. Who says I'm white?

"The Tet holiday's like the Fourth of July, Christmas and New Year all rolled into one. Everyone in Nam, North and South, will be

banging gongs, barking at the moon and visiting his dead relatives".

Lt. Lockhart, Full Metal Jacket

[Teacher Mark 53]

Interesting links. Thanks

Peter and Thi

I-129F Sent : 2007-05-26

I-129F NOA1 : 2007-06-11

I-129F RFE(s) :

RFE Reply(s) :

I-129F NOA2 : 2007-10-26

Touched: 2007-11-02

NVC Recieved: 2007-11-16

Consulate recieved ??????

Packet 3 sent 2007-12-11

Packet 3 received 2007-12-24

Packet 3 returned 2007-12-28

You're welcome.

[Melrose Plant 1]

We started this Journey In July so it really hasn't been that long and I am 41, so a few brain cells have been wasted on the way.

P.S. Who says I'm white?

"The Tet holiday's like the Fourth of July, Christmas and New Year all rolled into one. Everyone in Nam, North and South, will be

banging gongs, barking at the moon and visiting his dead relatives".

Lt. Lockhart, Full Metal Jacket

I turn 40 on the 16th. It just doesn't seem important at the moment. Not at all. I'm just waiting for that approval, and that visa.

Yeah, maybe I should have said Americans instead of white guys. It absolutely floors me how I can say a few simple words to a waitress in a restaurant, and she will gush on and on about how wonderful I am, I can speak Vietnamese! Well, no I can't, not really. I get lost in a conversation easily. But why does it have to be that way? Most men (and I say "men" because I have yet to meet a single American woman who is trying to marry a Vietnamese man) seem to make very little effort to learn the Vietnamese language. Or Chinese, or Thai or Tagalog, whatever.

To my mind, how can you really know your wife too well if you can't understand a little of her language? You will never know how she thinks naturally without translation. She has made great effort to learn English, shouldn't you return the favor, at least for the sake of her family? Hats off to those who go the extra mile, I know it's not easy, but is anything that's worthwhile easy?

[Teacher Mark 53]

We started this Journey In July so it really hasn't been that long and I am 41, so a few brain cells have been wasted on the way.

P.S. Who says I'm white?

"The Tet holiday's like the Fourth of July, Christmas and New Year all rolled into one. Everyone in Nam, North and South, will be

banging gongs, barking at the moon and visiting his dead relatives".

Lt. Lockhart, Full Metal Jacket

I turn 40 on the 16th. It just doesn't seem important at the moment. Not at all. I'm just waiting for that approval, and that visa.

Yeah, maybe I should have said Americans instead of white guys. It absolutely floors me how I can say a few simple words to a waitress in a restaurant, and she will gush on and on about how wonderful I am, I can speak Vietnamese! Well, no I can't, not really. I get lost in a conversation easily. But why does it have to be that way? Most men (and I say "men" because I have yet to meet a single American woman who is trying to marry a Vietnamese man) seem to make very little effort to learn the Vietnamese language. Or Chinese, or Thai or Tagalog, whatever.

To my mind, how can you really know your wife too well if you can't understand a little of her language? You will never know how she thinks naturally without translation. She has made great effort to learn English, shouldn't you return the favor, at least for the sake of her family? Hats off to those who go the extra mile, I know it's not easy, but is anything that's worthwhile easy?

I agree. I am still trying to decide which learning program to buy. I was looking at a few yesterday. I have to be able to download and burn to C.D. since I am away from home for months at a time and can't have them readily delivered.

When I was in Germany (86-88) I started out by learning all of the foul language, then the insults and finally any terms that might apply to me so I would know if I was being insulted covertly. 20 years later I'm not worried about foul language and insults but I still want to know who's talking about me!

P.S. I am White. Just busting your chops!

[PeterFB 0]

Even before I met Thi, I decided I wanted to learn Vietnamese. I have some clients who are Vietnamese singers so I thought learning it would be interesting so I could understand their music and culture better. (I'm a musician/MI retailer/consultant). I was hoping they would help me but since they also speak English, they usuallywould speak English with me. If you are helping your fiance learn Egnlish then you understand what patience is....... So I understand why they didn't want to spend time helping me learn when they spoke English too.

I've tried Before You Know it (www.byki.com). I use a Mac so I'm limited in the computer based language programs. BYKI is both Mac and PC. They start off with a free version which you can upgrade later. I have found it useful but I don't use it that much because I didn't decide to upgrade to the paid version. I got Pimsleur's Vietnamese audio CD course (www.pimsleurapproach.com/l) which I like for learning to speak and hear Vietnamese. It's approach is that you first learned to speak and hear before you learned to read and write. Since I drive a lot to my clients, I can also study Vietnamese! I also have bought Educational Services Language/30 Vietnamese course. It has both audio Cassette or CD and a phrase book but I didn't find I was learning like I have with Pemsleur's. The phrase book is useful because it has helped me with reading and writing. I also have the Lonely Planet Phrasebook. It comes with a English->Vietnamese and Vietnamese->English dictionary. That I use some but mostly the dictionary.

I have also found online, the www.vdict.com dictionary and translator to be usefull too. I have used the dictionary at Vietfun.com too.

Of course being in Vietnam with her family who mostly speak only Vietnamese is the best way to learn.

Peter and Thi

I-129F Sent : 2007-05-26

I-129F NOA1 : 2007-06-11

I-129F RFE(s) :

RFE Reply(s) :

I-129F NOA2 : 2007-10-26

Touched: 2007-11-02

NVC Recieved: 2007-11-16

Consulate recieved ??????

Packet 3 sent 2007-12-11

Packet 3 received 2007-12-24

Packet 3 returned 2007-12-28

[Melrose Plant 1]

Even before I met Thi, I decided I wanted to learn Vietnamese. I have some clients who are Vietnamese singers so I thought learning it would be interesting so I could understand their music and culture better. (I'm a musician/MI retailer/consultant). I was hoping they would help me but since they also speak English, they usuallywould speak English with me. If you are helping your fiance learn Egnlish then you understand what patience is....... So I understand why they didn't want to spend time helping me learn when they spoke English too.

I've tried Before You Know it (www.byki.com). I use a Mac so I'm limited in the computer based language programs. BYKI is both Mac and PC. They start off with a free version which you can upgrade later. I have found it useful but I don't use it that much because I didn't decide to upgrade to the paid version. I got Pimsleur's Vietnamese audio CD course (www.pimsleurapproach.com/l) which I like for learning to speak and hear Vietnamese. It's approach is that you first learned to speak and hear before you learned to read and write. Since I drive a lot to my clients, I can also study Vietnamese! I also have bought Educational Services Language/30 Vietnamese course. It has both audio Cassette or CD and a phrase book but I didn't find I was learning like I have with Pemsleur's. The phrase book is useful because it has helped me with reading and writing. I also have the Lonely Planet Phrasebook. It comes with a English->Vietnamese and Vietnamese->English dictionary. That I use some but mostly the dictionary.

I have also found online, the www.vdict.com dictionary and translator to be usefull too. I have used the dictionary at Vietfun.com too.

Of course being in Vietnam with her family who mostly speak only Vietnamese is the best way to learn.

Peter and Thi

I-129F Sent : 2007-05-26

I-129F NOA1 : 2007-06-11

I-129F RFE(s) :

RFE Reply(s) :

I-129F NOA2 : 2007-10-26

Touched: 2007-11-02

NVC Recieved: 2007-11-16

Consulate recieved ??????

Packet 3 sent 2007-12-11

Packet 3 received 2007-12-24

Packet 3 returned 2007-12-28

I have had the same experiences with Pimsleur as you, Peter. That was the first method that really got me off the ground. However, I had to supplement. We may have learned our native language by speaking and hearing, but as you can guess, I am no longer 3 years old! If I can't see the word, I won't remember it. Even though it says specifically not to do this, I looked up many words in the dictionary for better retention. Then later, over months, I listened to all the CDs in the car again. That cemented things a lot better.

One caveat with Pimsleur, though--they speak very squarely in the northern dialect, which is good for me, but may present some difficulties for most of you on this site (I still haven't found another Northerner amongst us, hehe). According to my fiancee, the woman on those CDs speaks with a classic, crisp, standard Hanoi accent, but the man sounds as if he's from some other area in the North (outside Hanoi). Also, there are a few other things she says are a little funny with that set, most notably the continuous use of the word "tôi" for "I." Technically, that is correct, but it's not very common practice in everyday situations. One usually refers to himself in the second person in Vietnamese, using the appropriate word depending on one's age compared to the listener.

Almost unforgivable, however, is the failure of the CD to teach the second person pronoun "em." When you get to be our age, almost everyone in VN is "em." It would be very funny to go around calling your 25 year old waitress "chị" That is exactly how they teach you on the CD, however. I guess you have to draw the line somewhere on how much information you're teaching a beginner.

I could go on, but I won't. I'm probably boring the pants off a lot of you, sorry. One more thing, though. Rosetta Stone is very good for teaching vocabulary, but useless for teaching ordinary conversations like you learn with Pimsleur. Plus, you can't do it in the car (unless you're not driving)! Plus, you run into the occasional, "What in the devil is that supposed to be a picture of"?

Edited January 14, 2008 by Melrose Plant

[GOSSIPSAIGON 0]

We started this Journey In July so it really hasn't been that long and I am 41, so a few brain cells have been wasted on the way.

P.S. Who says I'm white?

"The Tet holiday's like the Fourth of July, Christmas and New Year all rolled into one. Everyone in Nam, North and South, will be

banging gongs, barking at the moon and visiting his dead relatives".

Lt. Lockhart, Full Metal Jacket

I turn 40 on the 16th. It just doesn't seem important at the moment. Not at all. I'm just waiting for that approval, and that visa.

Yeah, maybe I should have said Americans instead of white guys. It absolutely floors me how I can say a few simple words to a waitress in a restaurant, and she will gush on and on about how wonderful I am, I can speak Vietnamese! Well, no I can't, not really. I get lost in a conversation easily. But why does it have to be that way? Most men (and I say "men" because I have yet to meet a single American woman who is trying to marry a Vietnamese man) seem to make very little effort to learn the Vietnamese language. Or Chinese, or Thai or Tagalog, whatever.

To my mind, how can you really know your wife too well if you can't understand a little of her language? You will never know how she thinks naturally without translation. She has made great effort to learn English, shouldn't you return the favor, at least for the sake of her family? Hats off to those who go the extra mile, I know it's not easy, but is anything that's worthwhile easy?

I agree. I am still trying to decide which learning program to buy. I was looking at a few yesterday. I have to be able to download and burn to C.D. since I am away from home for months at a time and can't have them readily delivered.

When I was in Germany (86-88) I started out by learning all of the foul language, then the insults and finally any terms that might apply to me so I would know if I was being insulted covertly. 20 years later I'm not worried about foul language and insults but I still want to know who's talking about me!

P.S. I am White. Just busting your chops!

CHECK THIS OUT:

http://www.vnisoft.com/

[PeterFB 0]

I have had the same experiences with Pimsleur as you, Peter. That was the first method that really got me off the ground. However, I had to supplement. We may have learned our native language by speaking and hearing, but as you can guess, I am no longer 3 years old! If I can't see the word, I won't remember it. Even though it says specifically not to do this, I looked up many words in the dictionary for better retention. Then later, over months, I listened to all the CDs in the car again. That cemented things a lot better.

One caveat with Pimsleur, though--they speak very squarely in the northern dialect, which is good for me, but may present some difficulties for most of you on this site (I still haven't found another Northerner amongst us, hehe). According to my fiancee, the woman on those CDs speaks with a classic, crisp, standard Hanoi accent, but the man sounds as if he's from some other area in the North (outside Hanoi). Also, there are a few other things she says are a little funny with that set, most notably the continuous use of the word "tôi" for "I." Technically, that is correct, but it's not very common practice in everyday situations. One usually refers to himself in the second person in Vietnamese, using the appropriate word depending on one's age compared to the listener.

Almost unforgivable, however, is the failure of the CD to teach the second person pronoun "em." When you get to be our age, almost everyone in VN is "em." It would be very funny to go around calling your 25 year old waitress "ch?" That is exactly how they teach you on the CD, however. I guess you have to draw the line somewhere on how much information you're teaching a beginner.

I could go on, but I won't. I'm probably boring the pants off a lot of you, sorry. One more thing, though. Rosetta Stone is very good for teaching vocabulary, but useless for teaching ordinary conversations like you learn with Pimsleur. Plus, you can't do it in the car (unless you're not driving)! Plus, you run into the occasional, "What in the devil is that supposed to be a picture of"?

Actually you're not boring me at all. I have found that every Vietnamese language CD/program I find is Northern Dialect and some of the same kind of things you have mentioned. Thi sometimes asks me why I say things the way I do so I follow what she tells me since I'm trying to talk to her........As you pointed out most everyone seems to be "Southerns" so why are there no courses using it?

I agree that most courses have their good and bad points. When you have to $$$$ to buy several courses just to learn enough to know you don't know much, it's a little maddening. I'm still looking for the "right" course. I did find a very good Spanish course ( I live in Los Angeles) but the company only does Spanish. I found I was learning to hear, speak, write grammar and how to construct sentences with that one. However I don't have time to learn both languages at the same time so for now, it's Vietnamese.

Pimsleur is good at helping with grammar and sentence construct too but without any writing and reading it's not enough to be the only course. Thanks for info about it. Also is there any more than the 30 units? What's next after that?

Peter and Thi

I-129F Sent : 2007-05-26

I-129F NOA1 : 2007-06-11

I-129F RFE(s) :

RFE Reply(s) :

I-129F NOA2 : 2007-10-26

Touched: 2007-11-02

NVC Recieved: 2007-11-16

Consulate recieved ??????

Packet 3 sent 2007-12-11

Packet 3 received 2007-12-24

Packet 3 returned 2007-12-28

[CK&Tydi 0]

Most of what the Vietnamese do is crazy. Every now and then we Americans need to go over there and show them what they are doing wrong. They don't always listen to us.

I don't agree with you on this. American is a damn crazy people. Love to be in other people business and change thing. Act like a damn big brothers.

[dalegg 143]

Most of what the Vietnamese do is crazy. Every now and then we Americans need to go over there and show them what they are doing wrong. They don't always listen to us.

I don't agree with you on this. American is a damn crazy people. Love to be in other people business and change thing. Act like a damn big brothers.