Fading in polls, Clinton vows to fight on

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I think a good leader though must learn to detach themselves emotionally from the issues at hand in order think rationally. Hillary was just reflecting on the grueling process but she also seemed too emotionally attached with her desire to be president. That I find unappealing.

Edited January 7, 2008 by Mister Fancypants

[Alex+R 0]

But it is a more masculine trait, not just because society has defined it as such, but because there are physiological reasons behind it.

If women "can't help it", then there wouldn't be strong women leaders who don't burst into tears at every minor setback.

But... there are!

Saying that women are more expressive generally and that they "can't help it" are not close to synonymous.

I think a good leader though must learn to detach themselves emotionally from the issues at hand in order think rationally. Hillary was just reflecting on the grueling process but she also seemed too emotionally attached with her desire to be president. That I find unappealing.

So it's not that she showed emotion, but what she got emotional about .

[LoriLawless 0]

I think a good leader though must learn to detach themselves emotionally from the issues at hand in order think rationally. Hillary was just reflecting on the grueling process but she also seemed too emotionally attached with her desire to be president. That I find unappealing.

I agree

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

But it is a more masculine trait, not just because society has defined it as such, but because there are physiological reasons behind it.

If women "can't help it", then there wouldn't be strong women leaders who don't burst into tears at every minor setback.

But... there are!

Saying that women are more expressive generally and that they "can't help it" are not close to synonymous.

Saying women can not control their displays of emotion for 'physiological' reasons is saying they can't help it.

[Jenn! 918]

But it is a more masculine trait, not just because society has defined it as such, but because there are physiological reasons behind it.

If women "can't help it", then there wouldn't be strong women leaders who don't burst into tears at every minor setback.

But... there are!

I'm not saying every woman is emotional and can't hold it together. But I don't think you can deny that there is a biological difference that affects the expression of emotion. I really think that you are saying that men, in general, make more effective leaders. And as far as women go, those who make more effective leaders are those who exhibit more masculine traits.

[Alex+R 0]

But it is a more masculine trait, not just because society has defined it as such, but because there are physiological reasons behind it.

If women "can't help it", then there wouldn't be strong women leaders who don't burst into tears at every minor setback.

But... there are!

Saying that women are more expressive generally and that they "can't help it" are not close to synonymous.

Saying women can not control their displays of emotion for 'physiological' reasons is saying they can't help it.

Yeah, but that's not what Jenn or I said. Being more expressive naturally doesn't mean it's not controllable. Hillary did not exercise control.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I think a good leader though must learn to detach themselves emotionally from the issues at hand in order think rationally. Hillary was just reflecting on the grueling process but she also seemed too emotionally attached with her desire to be president. That I find unappealing.

So it's not that she showed emotion, but what she got emotional about .

Yes...the part when she said that she has so much to offer the country seemed a bit narcissistic when expressed that way. Maybe she does, but I'd hope that she doesn't think this country is doomed if it's not her in the White House.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I really think that you are saying that men, in general, make more effective leaders.

Not at all. The most effective manager I've ever worked for was a woman. She did demonstrate what you'd consider 'masculine' traits, but I consider them traits of an effective leader. Those qualities, IMO are unwavering focus, never let the people you're negotiating with know how you feel, and protect your staff.

[Alex+R 0]

I really think that you are saying that men, in general, make more effective leaders.

Not at all. The most effective manager I've ever worked for was a woman. She did demonstrate what you'd consider 'masculine' traits, but I consider them traits of an effective leader. Those qualities, IMO are unwavering focus, never let the people you're negotiating with know how you feel, and protect your staff.

It's a style of leadership that comes more naturally to males. People in general are not yet used to a female style of leadership, so we consider the best women leaders those who most closely approximate the ideal male style of leadership.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I really think that you are saying that men, in general, make more effective leaders.

Not at all. The most effective manager I've ever worked for was a woman. She did demonstrate what you'd consider 'masculine' traits, but I consider them traits of an effective leader. Those qualities, IMO are unwavering focus, never let the people you're negotiating with know how you feel, and protect your staff.

I agree with the idea that in a moment of crisis would not be the time to become overwhelmed with emotions. However, IMO, there's a big difference between emotional detachment and suppressing emotions.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I really think that you are saying that men, in general, make more effective leaders.

Not at all. The most effective manager I've ever worked for was a woman. She did demonstrate what you'd consider 'masculine' traits, but I consider them traits of an effective leader. Those qualities, IMO are unwavering focus, never let the people you're negotiating with know how you feel, and protect your staff.

It's a style of leadership that comes more naturally to males. People in general are not yet used to a female style of leadership, so we consider the best women leaders those who most closely approximate the ideal male style of leadership.

I disagree.

[Jenn! 918]

I really think that you are saying that men, in general, make more effective leaders.

Not at all. The most effective manager I've ever worked for was a woman. She did demonstrate what you'd consider 'masculine' traits, but I consider them traits of an effective leader. Those qualities, IMO are unwavering focus, never let the people you're negotiating with know how you feel, and protect your staff.

Aren't men more likely to exhibit masculine traits than women? If you take 100 men, how many of them would you expect to be effective leaders? If you take 100 women, how many of them would you expect to be effective leaders?

But anyway, I don't disagree that those traits are desirable.

And, of course, none of this is to say that there aren't women who can be effective leaders, and men who will cry over anything.

Oh, and FWIW, I think Hillary is pretty masculine.

Edited January 7, 2008 by Jenn!

[Alex+R 0]

Stoicism and strength are two things our culture values in any leader, for better or for worse. It's kind of funny, but Minn. Dems are having this problem with Al Franken as a candidate right now. He keeps effing crying, at every campaign event. He gets on the stage/pulpit/whatever it may be and ultimately cries. If he's talking about what he cares about, his family or his dead parents. He cries. The fukcing waterworks show up. How can he win in a state like Minnesota acting like that?!

[LoriLawless 0]

This isn't about men vs women or masculine vs feminine. It's about a Presidential candidate that can't even get through what she's going through now without breaking down (just a little, but enough). How in the world would she be able to handle being President? Talk about stress.

[mawilson 2,133]

But it is a more masculine trait, not just because society has defined it as such, but because there are physiological reasons behind it.

Physiological reasons???? Like what?