Abuse victims advised to not seek residency

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Many people might consider themselves better suited in the USA rather than their homeland. Whatever their current circumstances are.

Not sure why that should be the basis of a immigration policy.

That wouldn't be the basis of a policy. The alien, in this hypothetical case, despite having an illegal status at the time, entered into a bona fide marriage with a USC and was abused. The INA recognizes that battered aliens should not be forced to remain with an abuser through the adjusment of status process. Absent a viable marriage, and with VAWA in place, battered aliens are not automatically shunted out of the country and back to their origins. Why place an EWI battered alien in a position where that may be the only recourse?

[Boiler 46,120]

Many people might consider themselves better suited in the USA rather than their homeland. Whatever their current circumstances are.

Not sure why that should be the basis of a immigration policy.

That wouldn't be the basis of a policy. The alien, in this hypothetical case, despite having an illegal status at the time, entered into a bona fide marriage with a USC and was abused. The INA recognizes that battered aliens should not be forced to remain with an abuser through the adjusment of status process. Absent a viable marriage, and with VAWA in place, battered aliens are not automatically shunted out of the country and back to their origins. Why place an EWI battered alien in a position where that may be the only recourse?

You are assuming a USC spouse, that maybe the case, but this applies to a more common position where no USC is involved.

More importantly:

An Illegal without this has no ability to adjust inside the USA, so this is giving them a benefit a non VAWA applicant would not have, an obvious inducement to fraud and there is no jusification.

[LaL 418]

Posts have been removed that were off topic. Any questions, please PM me, thanks!

[zqt3344 21]

Posts have been removed that were off topic. Any questions, please PM me, thanks!

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Many people might consider themselves better suited in the USA rather than their homeland. Whatever their current circumstances are.

Not sure why that should be the basis of a immigration policy.

That wouldn't be the basis of a policy. The alien, in this hypothetical case, despite having an illegal status at the time, entered into a bona fide marriage with a USC and was abused. The INA recognizes that battered aliens should not be forced to remain with an abuser through the adjusment of status process. Absent a viable marriage, and with VAWA in place, battered aliens are not automatically shunted out of the country and back to their origins. Why place an EWI battered alien in a position where that may be the only recourse?

You are assuming a USC spouse, that maybe the case, but this applies to a more common position where no USC is involved.

More importantly:

An Illegal without this has no ability to adjust inside the USA, so this is giving them a benefit a non VAWA applicant would not have, an obvious inducement to fraud and there is no jusification.

What benefit does the illegal have that the non-VAWA applicant doesn't? Any illegal that marries a USC that is not abusive, has no need to exit the marriage or leave the petitioner prior to adjustment occuring.

[Boiler 46,120]

Many people might consider themselves better suited in the USA rather than their homeland. Whatever their current circumstances are.

Not sure why that should be the basis of a immigration policy.

That wouldn't be the basis of a policy. The alien, in this hypothetical case, despite having an illegal status at the time, entered into a bona fide marriage with a USC and was abused. The INA recognizes that battered aliens should not be forced to remain with an abuser through the adjusment of status process. Absent a viable marriage, and with VAWA in place, battered aliens are not automatically shunted out of the country and back to their origins. Why place an EWI battered alien in a position where that may be the only recourse?

You are assuming a USC spouse, that maybe the case, but this applies to a more common position where no USC is involved.

More importantly:

An Illegal without this has no ability to adjust inside the USA, so this is giving them a benefit a non VAWA applicant would not have, an obvious inducement to fraud and there is no jusification.

What benefit does the illegal have that the non-VAWA applicant doesn't? Any illegal that marries a USC that is not abusive, has no need to exit the marriage or leave the petitioner prior to adjustment occuring.

The ability to adjust.

Possibly in country.

[pushbrk 13,117]

Many people might consider themselves better suited in the USA rather than their homeland. Whatever their current circumstances are.

Not sure why that should be the basis of a immigration policy.

That wouldn't be the basis of a policy. The alien, in this hypothetical case, despite having an illegal status at the time, entered into a bona fide marriage with a USC and was abused. The INA recognizes that battered aliens should not be forced to remain with an abuser through the adjusment of status process. Absent a viable marriage, and with VAWA in place, battered aliens are not automatically shunted out of the country and back to their origins. Why place an EWI battered alien in a position where that may be the only recourse?

You are assuming a USC spouse, that maybe the case, but this applies to a more common position where no USC is involved.

More importantly:

An Illegal without this has no ability to adjust inside the USA, so this is giving them a benefit a non VAWA applicant would not have, an obvious inducement to fraud and there is no jusification.

What benefit does the illegal have that the non-VAWA applicant doesn't? Any illegal that marries a USC that is not abusive, has no need to exit the marriage or leave the petitioner prior to adjustment occuring.

The ability to adjust.

Possibly in country.

Fraud scenario number one.

Jane and Billy are in love and want to live together in the US. They decide they'll each find USC fiance's, get K1 visas, come to the US, marry and file AOS. Once the green cards are in hand, they'll leave their respective spouses and begin their lives together in the USA.

Don't kid yourself. This and similar scenarios are quite common.

Fraud scenario number two.

Jaime is here illegally want a green card. He seduces Mary, a USC and marries her. When the honeymoon is over, he gives himself a bruise or two with a big skillet, then calls the cops and claims Mary took some swings at him during an argument. Jaime gets a green card.

Fraud scenario three:

Same as scenario two except both Sally and Joe are here illegally.

I doubt the lawmakers had scenario two or three in mind when they wrote the law.

[N400-2011 24]

Wow...this thread has certainly brought up some interesting and some valid points. As a VAWA beneficiary, I can understand the concerns about fraud, but I believe (because of my personal experience) that it is more likely that the USC spouse would try to keep their perceived "control" that they have over their immigrant spouse. My ex tried every trick in the book he could think of after he was arrested for attacking me. In my case, there were witnesses - my neighbors - he jumped off of me when they yelled at him. They also called the police. Plus I had bruises on my body. He tried to get me evicted, he prolonged the criminal case until the last day he could take the plea deal. He filed for an annulment claiming marriage fraud, etc. (he was literally claiming ALL of the legal points which are required to obtain an annulment). He wanted me out of his life AND out of the country. Oh, and in the annulment papers, was claiming that I was illegal when I met him - this was completely FALSE and he knew it. He knew that everything that he claimed was false. He also knew what he did to me on the day that he had attacked me but, of course, was telling his family and friends otherwise.

I went into marriage believing that in 50 years, I would be with that man, with our kids and grandkids around us. He attacked me one month before the AOS interview. I had no job, no money, no work permit. I got the permit two days after the assault. I was physically and mentally bruised and battered, and in shock. I did not know what to do, I called the domestic violence hotline and they put me through to agencies in my area. Safety first - I did not want him to get access to me again because I was afraid of what he might do to me...I got a temp order of protection from family court, and one from criminal court. All my bruises had been documented by the police and by the court. The numerous 911 calls made that day by several neighbors were also in evidence, as well as testimony from the neighbors who saw him on top of me in the hallway after he successfully threw me out of the apartment.

Because he is a USC, he thought that he could "throw me away" and the law would be on his side. He thought he could cry "marriage fraud" and I would be deported. He did not plead guilty until the last day before the trial would start - I know he did it because he didn't want a trial because he knew he wouldn't win. There was too much evidence against him. Eventually we went before the same judge (integrated domestic violence court) to dissolve our marriage. He was still fighting for an annulment. He finally hired an attorney and he withdrew his annulment, again, because he would not have won. And my divorce was granted. If not for VAWA and the other laws of the land, he probably would have won. VAWA protected me. I have never been illegal in this country. I filed a VAWA petition and it was approved. I had proof that I married my ex with the expectation of a long and happy marriage. One instance of physical violence shattered that dream. One instance was enough for me to get out with my life. He even lied to the assistant district attorney - he told her that he hadn't filed for me (one of his sisters who is an attorney was the co-sponsor for the affidavit of support) - I had all the receipts.

IF I had been illegal, VAWA would have protected me. Thankfully, I took care of safety first. I didn't have an immigration attorney until a few months after the incident. I had to deal with the following courts in this process: housing, family, criminal, and divorce. Soon, I hope, I will receive my interview notice to adjust status. And that is when I will finally feel as if my life is beginning again.

You never know what people go through behind closed doors. VAWA protects people who have been abused regardless of status, as long as they entered into the relationship in good faith. Yes, there may be fraud in some cases, but I am sure there are also many fraudulent cases in which VAWA never comes into play. What would be the remedy then? To abolish all immigration based on marriage? VAWA is not an easy process, and there are many things that you have to provide and address in the application. First and foremost, if you can't prove that your marriage was real, you will have a problem.

Edited January 11, 2008 by Vawa-2006

[pushbrk 13,117]

Wow...this thread has certainly brought up some interesting and some valid points.

Yes it has, and your points are just as valid. I was simply giving examples of motivation present when such a benefit is allowed to accrue to an illegal. Evidently, the plain language in the statute doesn't provide such a benefit to someone who doesn't have legal status, at least as USCIS is interpreting the law. Of course, we have a whole criminal and civil justice system consumed with argument over the interpretation of laws.

[N400-2011 24]

Wow...this thread has certainly brought up some interesting and some valid points.

Yes it has, and your points are just as valid. I was simply giving examples of motivation present when such a benefit is allowed to accrue to an illegal. Evidently, the plain language in the statute doesn't provide such a benefit to someone who doesn't have legal status, at least as USCIS is interpreting the law. Of course, we have a whole criminal and civil justice system consumed with argument over the interpretation of laws.

Thank you pushbrk. Your examples are very relevant because (unfortunately) I am certain those scenarios do exist. Wherever there are laws, there will always be persons who try to circumvent those laws. What is the solution? Too big a question for me.

But, if an illegal gets married in good faith, and then becomes abused, then I strongly believe that that person should be able to benefit under VAWA - and in fact, they can, and do. The article that I posted talks about what is occurring now after the VAWA petition is approved, when an illegal files to adjust status. I am glad I am not in that position, that I have to worry about deportation when I am finally called in for the interview. I am not saying, that I am "guaranteed" to get the green card. I really don't have any idea what to expect when I do have my interview. My attorney has told me what to expect, but, you never know, but I am not going to worry about it.

[pushbrk 13,117]

Wow...this thread has certainly brought up some interesting and some valid points.

Yes it has, and your points are just as valid. I was simply giving examples of motivation present when such a benefit is allowed to accrue to an illegal. Evidently, the plain language in the statute doesn't provide such a benefit to someone who doesn't have legal status, at least as USCIS is interpreting the law. Of course, we have a whole criminal and civil justice system consumed with argument over the interpretation of laws.

Thank you pushbrk. Your examples are very relevant because (unfortunately) I am certain those scenarios do exist. Wherever there are laws, there will always be persons who try to circumvent those laws. What is the solution? Too big a question for me.

But, if an illegal gets married in good faith, and then becomes abused, then I strongly believe that that person should be able to benefit under VAWA - and in fact, they can, and do. The article that I posted talks about what is occurring now after the VAWA petition is approved, when an illegal files to adjust status. I am glad I am not in that position, that I have to worry about deportation when I am finally called in for the interview. I am not saying, that I am "guaranteed" to get the green card. I really don't have any idea what to expect when I do have my interview. My attorney has told me what to expect, but, you never know, but I am not going to worry about it.

Since you weren't illegal, I certainly would have no objection in your case. Reasonable minds can disagree on the statute's interpretation with regard to an illegal alien. Fortunately we have a justic system to sort that out whether we agree or not. I've given my reason for my view. I didn't read the whole thread, so perhaps I missed your reason but that's how the system works. The lawyers make their opposing arguments and the judge makes the decision, then they argue on appeal and a higher court rules, etc. etc.

[Boiler 46,120]

But, if an illegal gets married in good faith, and then becomes abused, then I strongly believe that that person should be able to benefit under VAWA - and in fact, they can, and do. The article that I posted talks about what is occurring now after the VAWA petition is approved, when an illegal files to adjust status. I am glad I am not in that position, that I have to worry about deportation when I am finally called in for the interview.

In my mind the difference is that you came here legally with legal intent and are in legal status and are seeking to remain so.

The other person did not, there is nothing to stop that person leaving an abusive situation, and remain in the same status, or lack of it as they have always had.

The question is whether they should benefit from an immigration perspective in moving from illegal to legal, because of abuse, alleged or real.

I really can not think of any good reason why.

[N400-2011 24]

Wow...this thread has certainly brought up some interesting and some valid points.

Yes it has, and your points are just as valid. I was simply giving examples of motivation present when such a benefit is allowed to accrue to an illegal. Evidently, the plain language in the statute doesn't provide such a benefit to someone who doesn't have legal status, at least as USCIS is interpreting the law. Of course, we have a whole criminal and civil justice system consumed with argument over the interpretation of laws.

Thank you pushbrk. Your examples are very relevant because (unfortunately) I am certain those scenarios do exist. Wherever there are laws, there will always be persons who try to circumvent those laws. What is the solution? Too big a question for me.

But, if an illegal gets married in good faith, and then becomes abused, then I strongly believe that that person should be able to benefit under VAWA - and in fact, they can, and do. The article that I posted talks about what is occurring now after the VAWA petition is approved, when an illegal files to adjust status. I am glad I am not in that position, that I have to worry about deportation when I am finally called in for the interview. I am not saying, that I am "guaranteed" to get the green card. I really don't have any idea what to expect when I do have my interview. My attorney has told me what to expect, but, you never know, but I am not going to worry about it.

Since you weren't illegal, I certainly would have no objection in your case. Reasonable minds can disagree on the statute's interpretation with regard to an illegal alien. Fortunately we have a justic system to sort that out whether we agree or not. I've given my reason for my view. I didn't read the whole thread, so perhaps I missed your reason but that's how the system works. The lawyers make their opposing arguments and the judge makes the decision, then they argue on appeal and a higher court rules, etc. etc.

Yep, no matter which side of the fence you are on, it is a loooooooooooooong drawn out process. I wish that more VAWA beneficiaries, illegal or not, would participate in this thread. As the OP, it really is very interesting to hear the different opinions from people from other countries, and differing experiences.

When my immigration journey is finally over, I will start a new thread in which I will provide more details about how I came to be a VAWA self-petitioner in the first place. A lot of immigration forums exist on the internet but because of the "stigma" of domestic violence, a lot of survivors are very hesitant about putting their story out there. My ex-therapist once asked me, "How is it that you are so convinced that it was not your fault?" Why she asked me this was because most of the people that she talked with, were in some way convinced that what happened to them was their fault. I, on the other hand, have never been ashamed of what my ex did to me - disappointed, hurt, disillusioned, but, never ashamed. I talk about it freely and I think that has helped me to heal. I knew I did nothing to deserve being attacked, and no one will ever convince me otherwise. I have always believed that it is wrong for a man to hit a woman, AND for a woman to hit a man. If it reaches that point in a relationship, then one should just walk away. My ex and I had even had this discussion. BUT, he chose to act the way that he did. I know he blames me for his problems, I know he doesn't take responsibility - he says it's all MY fault. I reject that hypothesis completely. My reaction: I don't subscribe to that line of thinking, and no one will ever convince me that what happened to me at the hands of my ex is my fault. Maybe that is why I had to strength to say NO.

[N400-2011 24]

But, if an illegal gets married in good faith, and then becomes abused, then I strongly believe that that person should be able to benefit under VAWA - and in fact, they can, and do. The article that I posted talks about what is occurring now after the VAWA petition is approved, when an illegal files to adjust status. I am glad I am not in that position, that I have to worry about deportation when I am finally called in for the interview.

In my mind the difference is that you came here legally with legal intent and are in legal status and are seeking to remain so.

The other person did not, there is nothing to stop that person leaving an abusive situation, and remain in the same status, or lack of it as they have always had.

The question is whether they should benefit from an immigration perspective in moving from illegal to legal, because of abuse, alleged or real.

I really can not think of any good reason why.

I know what you are talking about - the other thread which I had linked to before. That person is clearly trying to circumvent the immigration process by paying for a marriage. I agree, she should not gain any benefits - she did not enter the marriage in good faith. Her first concern should be her safety. And it is clearly not.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

But, if an illegal gets married in good faith, and then becomes abused, then I strongly believe that that person should be able to benefit under VAWA - and in fact, they can, and do. The article that I posted talks about what is occurring now after the VAWA petition is approved, when an illegal files to adjust status. I am glad I am not in that position, that I have to worry about deportation when I am finally called in for the interview.

In my mind the difference is that you came here legally with legal intent and are in legal status and are seeking to remain so.

The other person did not, there is nothing to stop that person leaving an abusive situation, and remain in the same status, or lack of it as they have always had.

The question is whether they should benefit from an immigration perspective in moving from illegal to legal, because of abuse, alleged or real.

I really can not think of any good reason why.

So, it's your opinion that aliens that have "unlawful" status and aliens that have "illegal" status should receive different benefits under VAWA?