It's up to citizens of United States to stop illegal immigration

[rebeccajo 14]

You assume we don't do our own research before forming opinions....

Only when provided evidence that you 'research' without fully reading.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=103668

[mawilson 2,133]

Peejay...

If the flow of illegal immigration is stopped, your number during the next 43 years won't reach 120+ million.

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what Peejay wants -- to keep the population at the same level

and change our investment strategy from "growth" to "value".

[no name 1]

You assume we don't do our own research before forming opinions....

Only when provided evidence that you 'research' without fully reading.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=103668

I read that article & the previous. Your point?

You certainly didn't imply me alone when you wrote that comment. Why the condescension RJ?

Edited January 8, 2008 by devilette

[rebeccajo 14]

You assume we don't do our own research before forming opinions....

Only when provided evidence that you 'research' without fully reading.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=103668

I read that article & the previous. Your point?

You certainly didn't imply me alone when you wrote that comment. Why the condescension RJ?

I was replying to the fact that the newspaper you cited doesn't appear to attest to the same beliefs you espouse (as pointed out by almaty). So I'm confused at why you would cite them. Unless you just liked a few sentences they used.

As far as speaking categorically to the forum - I posted links and they can read them. Or not. They are free to post theirs also.

[rebeccajo 14]

Peejay...

If the flow of illegal immigration is stopped, your number during the next 43 years won't reach 120+ million.

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what Peejay wants -- to keep the population at the same level

and change our investment strategy from "growth" to "value".

That's fine.

Do you think keeping a population at it's same level is all it takes to give a country a 'valued' economy? Aren't there other factors at play as well?

[no name 1]

You assume we don't do our own research before forming opinions....

Only when provided evidence that you 'research' without fully reading.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=103668

I read that article & the previous. Your point?

You certainly didn't imply me alone when you wrote that comment. Why the condescension RJ?

I was replying to the fact that the newspaper you cited doesn't appear to attest to the same beliefs you espouse (as pointed out by almaty). So I'm confused at why you would cite them. Unless you just liked a few sentences they used.

As far as speaking categorically to the forum - I posted links and they can read them. Or not. They are free to post theirs also.

As I said I read the entire article. Who cares what beliefs they have? It was the principle of the ENTIRE ARTICLE.

[rebeccajo 14]

You assume we don't do our own research before forming opinions....

Only when provided evidence that you 'research' without fully reading.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=103668

I read that article & the previous. Your point?

You certainly didn't imply me alone when you wrote that comment. Why the condescension RJ?

I was replying to the fact that the newspaper you cited doesn't appear to attest to the same beliefs you espouse (as pointed out by almaty). So I'm confused at why you would cite them. Unless you just liked a few sentences they used.

As far as speaking categorically to the forum - I posted links and they can read them. Or not. They are free to post theirs also.

As I said I read the entire article. Who cares what beliefs they have? It was the principle of the ENTIRE ARTICLE.

As I said, let the readers decide.

[Sheriff Uling 3]

I wish for once we could all have a real discussion about illegals without all the finger pointing and cried of racism and the 'oh noes the brown pplz!' sh!t...it gets oh.so.tiring.

Very true! Since the vast majority of illegal aliens are Mexican, it appears to be a knock against them, but in actuality, it's not. As Peejay put it, it's all about the numbers. Come on... over 12 million illegal aliens combined. Am I just crazy or does that seem like a problem? Most Americans are at the breaking point where enough is enough. What makes this debate even more interesting is the fact that illegals aliens demand rights (as if they were citizens) and amnesty for the rule of law. I completely agree with Mitt Romney on this issue...

Edited January 8, 2008 by Sheriff Uling

[no name 1]

Governor Pawlenty unveils plan for illegal immigration crackdown

Governor Tim Pawlenty Monday unveiled his newest plan to slow illegal immigration into Minnesota, which will include a citizenship test for new state workers.

"We can't have a system, a secure system of identity and drivers licenses and other things, that is rampant with fraud," the Governor said flanked by law enforcement officers and Republican lawmakers.

The plan features computerized drivers license photo cross checks to guard against multiple persons sharing the same legal names and identities.

"Either in terms of the current drivers license, former drivers license version, social security cards that turn out to be fraudulent and there's an industry as you probably know which exploits immigrants and others."

State Senator Patricia Torres Ray, a Democrat from Minneapolis, criticized the Governor for politicizing a complex issue.

"This is the same proposal from two years ago and once again it's an election year," Torres Ray told reporters at the Capitol, "This is an election cycle and I am very disappointed that our Governor has chosen to use this issue as a way to further his political agenda."

She said she and other lawmakers in touch with the immigrant communities in Minnesota have been invited to a meeting with the Governor Wednesday, and she's surprised Pawlenty shared his plan with the media prior to that discussion.

"We take immigration issue very seriously. We are working with mayors, superintendents, hospitals and other major players to address these very same problems."

For those who suggest the Governor is playing the immigration card to score points, the Governor said it's simply not true.

"I think anybody who would suggest that illegal immigration is not a real concern in the United States isn't a very candid observer of what's taking place."

The Governor signed an order directing all state agencies to work with the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency, known as I.C.E., to enforce immigration laws. This act would clarify that State Troopers have the power and obligation to detain drivers of questionable immigration status.

Some cities, including Minneapolis and Saint Paul, do not arrest suspects solely for being in the United States without permission. If an undocumented immigrant is arrested for another crime they will be referred to federal authorities when their local criminal case is completely.

Pawlenty said he'll ask the legislature to penalize cities that enact so-called sanctuary laws. He's also seeking to have state officers take special training from Immigrations and Customs so that they could eventually be deputized to arrest and hold undocumented immigrants they encounter.

"He's asking state agencies to do the job of the federal government," Torres Ray said, "That is not the work of our law enforcement. He's asking local communities to take on the burden of immigration enforcement at the same time he's already cutting aid to those cities."

Saint Paul Police Chief John Harrington has testified in the past that cooperation from potential witnesses and crime victims in certain areas of the city would be harder to come by if those individuals thought local police were working on behalf of federal immigration authorities.

He also testified that police do work hand in hand with immigration authorities on human trafficking and other major criminal investigations.

Other executive actions, which can be enforced without any action by lawmakers, includes a requirement that all new state verify citizenship or legal residency. Their names would be checked against a computerized federal database known as E-Verify.

When asked if any undocumented immigrants have been discovered in the ranks of state employees, Pawlenty answered that it was more a matter of the state setting a good example.

Private companies looking to defend themselves against hiring illegal immigrants could voluntarily use the E-Verify system as a means of proving they tried to check on their applicants.

The Governor would also require any contractors working for the state to verify their United States citizenship or legal immigration status.

source

---

3 down, 47 to go!

Edited January 8, 2008 by devilette

[Alex+R 0]

"This is the same proposal from two years ago and once again it's an election year," Torres Ray told reporters at the Capitol, "This is an election cycle and I am very disappointed that our Governor has chosen to use this issue as a way to further his political agenda."

That's what this is really about, as anyone who knew anything about Pawlenty would know. He's a grade A chopfcuk who will do anything to gain politically. Thankfully a good amount of th MN Legislature have good heads on their shoulders.

[peejay 327]

One point I want to add is that people focus entirely on illegal immigration without even considering where legal immigration is taking us as well.

There are way too many myths, cliches, and misconceptions that people accept at face value without taking the time to analyze. There are also a lot of self serving interests in keeping immigration numbers high and even making them higher.

The "legal"=good and "illegal"=bad is way too simplistic and misleading. Like everything else in this country...follow the money. It isn't always in the best interests of the vast majority of Americans.

As for me...I think adding 100 million people to our population in 37 years is insane (from 203 million to 303 million). I'm old enough to see and notice the difference in my country. Mass immigration has definitely added huge numbers to our population and will add even more huge numbers if the American people do not look closely at where we are heading. Do we want this or are we going to let this be imposed on us?

Unfortunately there are way too many myths, cliches, and misconceptions that obfuscate the facts. I'm just saying wake up and see where we are going and where we have been both with legal and illegal immigration.

[Alex+R 0]

One point I want to add is that people focus entirely on illegal immigration without even considering where legal immigration is taking us as well.

There are way too many myths, cliches, and misconceptions that people accept at face value without taking the time to analyze. There are also a lot of self serving interests in keeping immigration numbers high and even making them higher.

The "legal"=good and "illegal"=bad is way too simplistic and misleading. Like everything else in this country...follow the money. It isn't always in the best interests of the vast majority of Americans.

As for me...I think adding 100 million people to our population in 37 years is insane (from 203 million to 303 million). I'm old enough to see and notice the difference in my country. Mass immigration has definitely added huge numbers to our population and will add even more huge numbers if the American people do not look closely at where we are heading. Do we want this or are we going to let this be imposed on us?

Unfortunately there are way too many myths, cliches, and misconceptions that obfuscate the facts. I'm just saying wake up and see where we are going and where we have been both with legal and illegal immigration.

Where should we cut back on legal immigration?

Also, what is the drawback of a large population in a country as spacious as this one?

(Not criticisms, just not sure I get the argument just yet.)

[HAL 9000 96]

Peejay...

If the flow of illegal immigration is stopped, your number during the next 43 years won't reach 120+ million.

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what Peejay wants -- to keep the population at the same level

and change our investment strategy from "growth" to "value".

Not going to happen with the current trend of USCs devaluating life here for everyone on the globe. Overconsumption is not something that can be ignored for some and denied to others... if you want value, argue for an improvement in the treatment of the valuation, as in not wasting once and again as we do on the general scale of things.

Then again, lets see where this takes you when you fall in love and find out you can't get the love of your life over to the USA because somene decided that legislating limits on legal immigrants was a good idea. Of course, you can always move outside the USA if it means that much to you... but I think most people given current moods will prefer the easier road.

[HAL 9000 96]

I wish for once we could all have a real discussion about illegals without all the finger pointing and cried of racism and the 'oh noes the brown pplz!' sh!t...it gets oh.so.tiring.

Very true! Since the vast majority of illegal aliens are Mexican, it appears to be a knock against them, but in actuality, it's not. As Peejay put it, it's all about the numbers. Come on... over 12 million illegal aliens combined. Am I just crazy or does that seem like a problem? Most Americans are at the breaking point where enough is enough. What makes this debate even more interesting is the fact that illegals aliens demand rights (as if they were citizens) and amnesty for the rule of law. I completely agree with Mitt Romney on this issue...

I think what most are demanding are basic human rights. Big difference there. Yet there are those that live beyond reality, true. But those are not the ones doing what most of us here do not want to do at the rates of pay and work levels they currently do. Yes, the illegals have got to become legal via legit means if they want to do their thing here.

[HAL 9000 96]

Governor Pawlenty unveils plan for illegal immigration crackdown

Governor Tim Pawlenty Monday unveiled his newest plan to slow illegal immigration into Minnesota, which will include a citizenship test for new state workers.

"We can't have a system, a secure system of identity and drivers licenses and other things, that is rampant with fraud," the Governor said flanked by law enforcement officers and Republican lawmakers.

The plan features computerized drivers license photo cross checks to guard against multiple persons sharing the same legal names and identities.

"Either in terms of the current drivers license, former drivers license version, social security cards that turn out to be fraudulent and there's an industry as you probably know which exploits immigrants and others."

State Senator Patricia Torres Ray, a Democrat from Minneapolis, criticized the Governor for politicizing a complex issue.

"This is the same proposal from two years ago and once again it's an election year," Torres Ray told reporters at the Capitol, "This is an election cycle and I am very disappointed that our Governor has chosen to use this issue as a way to further his political agenda."

She said she and other lawmakers in touch with the immigrant communities in Minnesota have been invited to a meeting with the Governor Wednesday, and she's surprised Pawlenty shared his plan with the media prior to that discussion.

"We take immigration issue very seriously. We are working with mayors, superintendents, hospitals and other major players to address these very same problems."

For those who suggest the Governor is playing the immigration card to score points, the Governor said it's simply not true.

"I think anybody who would suggest that illegal immigration is not a real concern in the United States isn't a very candid observer of what's taking place."

The Governor signed an order directing all state agencies to work with the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency, known as I.C.E., to enforce immigration laws. This act would clarify that State Troopers have the power and obligation to detain drivers of questionable immigration status.

Some cities, including Minneapolis and Saint Paul, do not arrest suspects solely for being in the United States without permission. If an undocumented immigrant is arrested for another crime they will be referred to federal authorities when their local criminal case is completely.

Pawlenty said he'll ask the legislature to penalize cities that enact so-called sanctuary laws. He's also seeking to have state officers take special training from Immigrations and Customs so that they could eventually be deputized to arrest and hold undocumented immigrants they encounter.

"He's asking state agencies to do the job of the federal government," Torres Ray said, "That is not the work of our law enforcement. He's asking local communities to take on the burden of immigration enforcement at the same time he's already cutting aid to those cities."

Saint Paul Police Chief John Harrington has testified in the past that cooperation from potential witnesses and crime victims in certain areas of the city would be harder to come by if those individuals thought local police were working on behalf of federal immigration authorities.

He also testified that police do work hand in hand with immigration authorities on human trafficking and other major criminal investigations.

Other executive actions, which can be enforced without any action by lawmakers, includes a requirement that all new state verify citizenship or legal residency. Their names would be checked against a computerized federal database known as E-Verify.

When asked if any undocumented immigrants have been discovered in the ranks of state employees, Pawlenty answered that it was more a matter of the state setting a good example.

Private companies looking to defend themselves against hiring illegal immigrants could voluntarily use the E-Verify system as a means of proving they tried to check on their applicants.

The Governor would also require any contractors working for the state to verify their United States citizenship or legal immigration status.

source

---

3 down, 47 to go!

The plan sounds interesting at the DMV. Specially since computerized checks should also crack down on illegal underage fake IDs. Oh... Skyler and the kids at [name your favorite Edina, MN H.S.] probably won't like that... maybe they can just make the checks selective on particular race classifications??