Ann Coulter on the Duke Rape Case and Natalee Holloway

[pax 0]

FWIW, I think Ann Coulter's very existence makes a good case for free speech being a bad idea, sometimes. And yet when I saw her commentary on the Duke rape case and on Natalee Holloway's disappearance, I found that I actually kind of agreed with her.

You can read Coulter's piece on it here. But here are the highlights:

However the Duke lacrosse rape case turns out, one lesson that absolutely will not be learned is this: You can severely reduce your chances of having a false accusation of rape leveled against you if you don't hire strange women to come to your house and take their clothes off for money.

Also, you can severely reduce your chances of being raped if you do not go to strange men's houses and take your clothes off for money. (Does anyone else detect a common thread here?)

And if you are a girl in Aruba or New York City, among the best ways to avoid being the victim of a horrible crime is to not get drunk in public or go off in a car with men you just met...

Yes, of course no one "deserves" to die for a mistake. Or to be raped or falsely accused of rape for a mistake. I have always been unabashedly anti-murder, anti-rape and anti-false accusation — and I don't care who knows about it!

But these statements would roll off the tongue more easily in a world that so much as tacitly acknowledged that all these messy turns of fate followed behavior that your mother could have told you was tacky.

I've been asking myself, while following these cases: Why has no one criticized the lacross team for hiring strippers in the first place? Why hasn't, say, the captain of the lacrosse team stepped up and admitted that getting a bunch of horny drunk athletes and a couple of strippers together maybe was not the best idea ever conceived on the Duke campus? Why has no one asked why an 18-year-old girl who apparently possessed not much in the way of common sense allowed to go off to Aruba unsupervised (something that would not have flown when I was celebrating my own high school graduation)?

So where's the line between asking some of these hard questions, raising the issues that Coulter raises, and "blaming the victim"? No one, obviously, deserves to be raped, murdered, or kidnapped, no matter what they were doing. But in trying to make young women feel as though the whole world is open to them, have we ignored the lessons of common sense that Coulter speaks of?

Edited April 21, 2006 by pax

[Jenn! 918]

Why has no one criticized the lacross team for hiring strippers in the first place? Why hasn't, say, the captain of the lacrosse team stepped up and admitted that getting a bunch of horny drunk athletes and a couple of strippers together maybe was not the best idea ever conceived on the Duke campus?

As a Duke alum, we are kept abreast of Duke's response to the situation. This is an excerpt from a recent e-mail from Duke's President.

"Quite separate from the criminal allegations, there have been reports of persistent problems involving the men’s lacrosse team, including racist language and a pattern of alcohol abuse and disorderly behavior. These are quite separate from the criminal allegations, and these we will address at once. The Athletic Council, the body with oversight of athletics in Duke’s governance system, is the right group to perform this investigation. The Executive Committee of the Academic Council and I have asked a faculty subcommittee of the Athletic Council to investigate all the evidence regarding objectionable behavior prior to March 13. The intention here is not to single out the behavior of individuals but to understand the extent to which the cumulative behavior of many over a number of years signifies a deeper problem for which significant corrective actions are called for."

It seems to me that the University does recognize the issues you brought up. It's not what is covered in the media, however.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

It's not good to get wasted alone. Go with friends.

Unless, of course, they plan to rape a stripper.

[pax 0]

Why has no one criticized the lacross team for hiring strippers in the first place? Why hasn't, say, the captain of the lacrosse team stepped up and admitted that getting a bunch of horny drunk athletes and a couple of strippers together maybe was not the best idea ever conceived on the Duke campus?

As a Duke alum, we are kept abreast of Duke's response to the situation. This is an excerpt from a recent e-mail from Duke's President.

"Quite separate from the criminal allegations, there have been reports of persistent problems involving the men’s lacrosse team, including racist language and a pattern of alcohol abuse and disorderly behavior. These are quite separate from the criminal allegations, and these we will address at once. The Athletic Council, the body with oversight of athletics in Duke’s governance system, is the right group to perform this investigation. The Executive Committee of the Academic Council and I have asked a faculty subcommittee of the Athletic Council to investigate all the evidence regarding objectionable behavior prior to March 13. The intention here is not to single out the behavior of individuals but to understand the extent to which the cumulative behavior of many over a number of years signifies a deeper problem for which significant corrective actions are called for."

It seems to me that the University does recognize the issues you brought up. It's not what is covered in the media, however.

It's nice that the University is recognizing the issues. What I'm saying is that I'd like to see someone who was actually in the situation admit that it was an unwise (to say the least) thing to do.

[ace13 0]

This is absolutely true. If you don't have any common sense you are more likely to be a vicitim. I personally believe you don't deserve to be a victim no matter how dumb you are and what dumb decisions you make, but it is just reality. The Lacross guys were just dumb. They may have paid for it, but who knows what they did to the poor girl that chose a bad profession.

[Mand 1]

Nobody, man nor woman, deserves to be violated in any way, I'm pretty sure we'll all agree to that.

I think what this issue raises as Abby stated is "How much common sense do young people actually have nowadays?" I was a secondary school teacher in Ireland and the majority of my older students had oodles of maturity and yet there were others who I wouldn't trust to look after a cardboard box, let alone themselves.

Sometimes, I think there is so much emphasis put on academic intelligence, that we forget that kids need to learn to have some cop-on too. Are they too molly-coddled to think rationally for themselves?

[Jenn! 918]

It's nice that the University is recognizing the issues. What I'm saying is that I'd like to see someone who was actually in the situation admit that it was an unwise (to say the least) thing to do.

Well, when it comes to the Duke Lacrosse players, I don't think that's gonna happen any time soon. They are big men on campus - OF COURSE, they are entitled to strippers!

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

It's nice that the University is recognizing the issues. What I'm saying is that I'd like to see someone who was actually in the situation admit that it was an unwise (to say the least) thing to do.

I bet there are more date-rapes daily than stripper-rapes. Would you say it's unwise to continue dating? Without the thought-police (yet) there's not too much to do about either other than educate and enforce the law.

[Fuzzness 2]

we are living in a society now where you are no longer responsible for your actions

[Jenn! 918]

I bet there are more date-rapes daily than stripper-rapes.

Especially at Duke.

[incanada1234 0]

Yeah, I gotta say I don't feel too bad for the stripper or Natalee Holloway. I think the lesson here is: don't be a #######.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

we are living in a society now where you are no longer responsible for your actions

That is true. It's always somebody elses fault.

[pax 0]

Nobody, man nor woman, deserves to be violated in any way, I'm pretty sure we'll all agree to that.

I think what this issue raises as Abby stated is "How much common sense do young people actually have nowadays?" I was a secondary school teacher in Ireland and the majority of my older students had oodles of maturity and yet there were others who I wouldn't trust to look after a cardboard box, let alone themselves.

Sometimes, I think there is so much emphasis put on academic intelligence, that we forget that kids need to learn to have some cop-on too. Are they too molly-coddled to think rationally for themselves?

I think you put it well, Mand. And I worry that too many parents are sending their kids out into the world thinking that some of these activities are just harmless fun. Sometimes they are. But you have to use common sense, too.

I mean, let's be real--I went to college, I went to parties, I went to bars, I drank. So do most college kids in the States or anywhere. But I went with friends, and we walked each other home or had designated drivers. It's not all that hard. Who really goes out and gets hammered and lets total strangers drive him/her home? Are kids really that irresponsible--with their drinking or in general?

[Jaylen Brit 0]

'look after a cardboard box'

I agree that in an ideal world we should all be bale to walk the streets naked if we so choose and be free from abuse be it verbal or physical..Alas we don't LIVE in an ideal world.

Curfews are often mentioned - but oddly for WOMEN - surely it should be for MEN cos I don't see many rape cases involving women as the protagonists...

Street sense - sometimes no matter how careful you are sh@t happens to you. There ARE things you can do to minimise risks (choice of clothing is NOT one of them btw IMO), such as not go off with a strange person (male or female) or get a lift with people you don't know, or take shortcuts at midnight down deserted alley ways or across fields unless you have something with you (like a DOBERMAN or if not that then mace at least) if there's no choice but to use that alleyway (tho personally Id rather be late than 'late' if you get me).

As for lacrosse team - a group of young men with no proper 'adult' supervision - well something was bound to happen wasn't it? They will regret this for the rest of their lives and so they should - that poor woman will.

[Garfield fan 0]

But in trying to make young women feel as though the whole world is open to them, have we ignored the lessons of common sense that Coulter speaks of?

Yes we have. Lack of common sense = higher possibility to get in troubles.