A pondering lurker

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Do you try to promote half-legal ways?

'Half-legal' doesn't exist. A course of action is either legal or illegal. The law provides, in many cases, for legal followup to illegal acts. Those aren't "half legal", they are legal.

There is no 'they', JQ.

Sorry.

No need to apologize. VJ is bigger, much bigger, than stinger or Lisa or D&N or I or even Ewok. There is no 'they' and chances are, however you feel about something, there are many others who do as well.

Edited December 30, 2007 by VJ Troll

[stinger157 0]

Do you try to promote half-legal ways?

'Half-legal' doesn't exist. A course of action is either legal or illegal. The law provides, in many cases, for legal followup to illegal acts. Those aren't "half legal", they are legal.

There is no 'they', JQ.

Sorry.

No need to apologize. VJ is bigger, much bigger, than stinger or Lisa or D&N or I or even Ewok. There is no 'they' and chances are, however you feel about something, there are many others who do as well.

Then let me rephrase the question.

Do you try to promote illegal ways to get the US citizenship?

[Ta Ta 1]

Do you feel you understand what intent means? Do you feel members here understand it?

Because it is not understood and therefore overlooked. It is what sets legal and illegal apart in most cases.

Bottom line.

Do I understand what intent means ? Can you tell by my bringing it to the table ? What is not to understand, it is a simple concept.

Do members understand it ? You have to ask them. Some do some don't. Some prefer to get into long discussions and ignore intent, hidden agenda

and motivation.

Some applicants have to learn the hard way what intent means.

Hey, we're just having a conversation here, ok? Nothing personal.

I'm more interested in the overall 'mood' of the world here. The members. I almost get the impression everybody thinks the only way to live here legally is to file a family based petition from overseas.

Nothing personal was assumed.

There are many examples how applicants adjust status with honest intent and succeed from other visa types.

I believe it is beyond this board to sort through those individual cases, they are far too complicated to mainstream and it is not the

intent ( no pun intended ) of a family based immigration board to advice on adjusting from other visa types.

That is best left to attorneys and AO's .

It remains speculations and guessing at best with some examples that have worked for one case but not another.

Too many variables come into play to give sound advice.

Discuss away....gotta go.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Do you try to promote illegal ways to get the US citizenship?

There aren't any. US Citizenship can only be provided by the federal government of the United States in a manner provided for by law.

[LaL 418]

Do you try to promote illegal ways to get the US citizenship?

There aren't any. US Citizenship can only be provided by the federal government of the United States in a manner provided for by law.

[stinger157 0]

Do you try to promote illegal ways to get the US citizenship?

There aren't any. US Citizenship can only be provided by the federal government of the United States in a manner provided for by law.

I was asking JQ, not you.

An illegal way to obtain citizenship could be keeping back information that would prevent you from getting the US citizenship. An example is a recent case where an old man, originally from Lithuania, went into removal proceedings because he didn't tell USCIS, or then INS, about his involvement in NS operations during WWII.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Of course not.

Do you try to promote illegal ways to get the US citizenship?

There aren't any. US Citizenship can only be provided by the federal government of the United States in a manner provided for by law.

I was asking JQ, not you.

An illegal way to obtain citizenship could be keeping back information that would prevent you from getting the US citizenship. An example is a recent case where an old man, originally from Lithuania, went into removal proceedings because he didn't tell USCIS, or then INS, about his involvement in NS operations during WWII.

[athena_ny 1]

I see where you're going with this and I can't say I don't agree - I've never seen anyone say what D&N says he's "seen" - people saying, "Oh yeah, come on over on VWP and adjust status".

People successfully adjust from VWP/tourist/alternate visa types all the time because the law allows for it. I don't see this site as "ONLY" about filing a petition from overseas, because there are people who need help who don't have to do that. Unfortunately, since this site is mainly filled up with people who file while their SO is overseas, some people feel it's acceptable to go on a diatribe about how anyone who adjusts from an alternate visa has questionable morals, or they should all be deported, or how it's so hard to get approved, or a whole bunch of opinion that isn't fact.

I've found the only thing you can really do about it is speak up with what is fact. May get you a bad rap by those spouting the ignorance, but they aren't really my concern.

[Fandango 1,440]

Now here we have what I have been observing.

An apparent disagreement between two members as to what is considered 'illegal'.

Why are members questioning the legal paths of others? Because it isn't available to them? Because it isn't legal in their own minds? Because it's different than what they did?

And most importantly, why does Admin allow for the confusing conjecture?

No, our disagreement has to do with D&N saying he sees things that I don't believe exist here. I don't believe people here say 'hey come over on the VWP and adjust status'. I don't believe he gets 'attacked' for pointing out that is illegal. I agree fully with meow mix above.

The question of VWP to AOS is a perfectly legitimate path, but it all boils down to intent, as I said from the start. Some people fail to grasp that. I've seen a poster come on and say (S)he was here on a work visa, but then met someone and now they want to marry....and some people saying 'well go home and file a K1' when that is absolutely not necc. Pointing out that the poster could just marry and file for AOS because (s)he's already here, and entered the country with no intent to immigrate is not advocating illegal means.

Whether D&N is confusing things like that with what he feels, I dunno. But when he offered to show the countless examples, I said 'ok' and then he failed to do it. In this thread he's said many things, but backed up none. So I called bullsh!t.

As far as the Admin on this board and what they allow....what you need to understand is that this is not a paid help desk. This is a site for people in the same boats to swap anecdotal stories of what worked for them. If E is alerted to information that is flat out wrong, I'm sure he would remove it. And the members do a good job at governing the flow of information. But like everything else...caveat emptor....buyer beware....no one here should use VJ solely without reading up and verifying the information with USCIS.gov.

Edited December 30, 2007 by LisaD

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Now here we have what I have been observing.

An apparent disagreement between two members as to what is considered 'illegal'.

Why are members questioning the legal paths of others? Because it isn't available to them? Because it isn't legal in their own minds? Because it's different than what they did?

And most importantly, why does Admin allow for the confusing conjecture?

No, our disagreement has to do with D&N saying he sees things that I don't believe exist here. I don't believe people here say 'hey come over on the VWP and adjust status'. I don't believe he gets 'attacked' for pointing out that is illegal. I agree fully with meow mix above.

The question of VWP to AOS is a perfectly legitimate path, but it all boils down to intent, as I said from the start. Some people fail to grasp that. I've seen a poster come on and say (S)he was here on a work visa, but then met someone and now they want to marry....and some people saying 'well go home and file a K1' when that is absolutely not necc. Pointing out that the poster could just marry and file for AOS because (s)he's already here, and entered the country with no intent to immigrate is not advocating illegal means.

Whether D&N is confusing things like that with what he feels, I dunno. But when he offered to show the countless examples, I said 'ok' and then he failed to do it. In this thread he's said many things, but backed up none. So I called bullsh!t.

As far as the Admin on this board and what they allow....what you need to understand is that this is not a paid help desk. This is a site for people in the same boats to swap anecdotal stories of what worked for them. If E is alerted to information that is flat out wrong, I'm sure he would remove it. And the members do a good job at governing the flow of information. But like everything else...caveat emptor....buyer beware....no one here should use VJ solely without reading up and verifying the information with USCIS.gov.

Thanks. That was a nice warm welcome to my questions.

So I just 'need to understand' and keep my mouth shut, right?

You all sure have a strange way of doing things around here, that's for sure.

[Captain Ewok 1,900]

Guys this thread is going no where with the back and forth snipes. If you want to do that then use the PM system. If you have constructive ideas or can discuss topics without bickering then please feel free to post them here.