My daughter's scholl Christmas Party

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

I agree!

What I say now and forever is keep religious myopia out of public institutions.

Sounds good!

But it doesn't mean we can't call Christmas Christmas and Hanukkah Hanukkah.

Dec 25 is still Christmas, public institutions or not.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Yea, the holy days are the holy days. Dec. 20 was Eid. No name change required coz few non-Muslims even noticed, and we didn't expect any school parties for it. IMO, Christians feel entitled to the top dog seat in the public sphere, so when they don't get it, they whine. Jesus taught humility. Some could use a bit of that.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Who cares what they call it - it doesn't change one whit what you or I call it at home. Noone's outlawing Christmas, so honestly.... who cares.

Honestly I think this whole "What to call the holidays" thing is the most pointless and silly public debate ever. Too much time and energy spent on issues of presentation and not enough on issues of substance. I guess it helps Bill O'Reilly and Lou Dobbs sell books on fictional wars on "culture" and the "middle class", but still...

[PlatyPius 5]

The whole purpose behind the "Happy Holidays" "Winter Break" thing is not to remove Christmas, it is to try to include everyone. December is a month of holidays for many religions. Hanukkah started on December 5th (the date changes every year), Eid al-Adha was on the 20th (as already mentioned), the Winter Solstice (the origin of all of these December religious observances) was on December 22nd, Xmas is on the 25th, and Kwaanza starts on the 26th.

With that many holidays occurring so close together, how could it just be called Xmas Break?

All of that aside, even though I'm a Pagan, I still celebrate Xmas. It's a non-religious holiday in our house, of course.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Good point, platy. One correction: I can't speak for other faiths, but we Muslims have Holy Days, not "holidays, refuting the secular bastardization of the term for everything from Valentine's Day to Groundhog Day.

Edited December 24, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Good point, platy. One correction: I can't speak for other faiths, but we Muslims have Holy Days, not "holidays, refuting the secular bastardization of the term for everything from Valentine's Day to Groundhog Day.

Neither Valentine's Day nor Groundhog Day are considered "holidays" in the United States (even though Valentine's Day seems to have had its roots in honoring a Christian saint) -- businesses do not close. By definition, a "holiday" is either a religious holy day or a day in commemoration of an event or person, and which is marked by a general cessation of work. (Of course, in British use, "holiday" can mean simply "vacation.")

So an example of a "secular holiday" in the U.S. would be Independence Day -- or President's Day, Veteran's Day, etc. -- where businesses generally close and people have the day off from work.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

The cultural application is to call them holidays, Valentine's Day and Groundhog Day included. The secular venacular puts them in that context, Fourth of July HOLIDAY, and the like, right along with Holy Days, like Christmas. That is the colloquial usage, and thus, how they fall into the scheme. And, if a Holy Day is defined by the widespread closing of businesses, then only Thanksgiving and Christimas would truly make the cut. That would eliminate a lot of Holy Days.

Edited December 24, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

The cultural application is to call them holidays. I would agree that they are not, but the common venacular puts them in that context, Fourth of July HOLIDAY, and the like. That is the colloquial usage, and thus, how they fall into the scheme.

Actually, the "cultural application" in the U.S. is *not* to call them "holidays." I mean really, GEG, who the heck refers to Groundhog Day or Valentine's Day as a "holiday" ????? No one. Not in the vernacular, not in official terms, and not in colloquial usage.

Again, as I already pointed out, dates like the Fourth of July *ARE* examples of "secular holidays" -- businesses are generally closed and people generally have the day off.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

The cultural application is to call them holidays. I would agree that they are not, but the common venacular puts them in that context, Fourth of July HOLIDAY, and the like. That is the colloquial usage, and thus, how they fall into the scheme.

Actually, the "cultural application" in the U.S. is *not* to call them "holidays." I mean really, GEG, who the heck refers to Groundhog Day or Valentine's Day as a "holiday" ????? No one. Not in the vernacular, not in official terms, and not in colloquial usage.

Again, as I already pointed out, dates like the Fourth of July *ARE* examples of "secular holidays" -- businesses are generally closed and people generally have the day off.

Apparently, what they do where you live is not the same as what they do in anywhere I've lived. In the world I live in businesses do not close for 4th of July, and Groundhog day and Valentine's Day are referred to as holidays. Wikipedia, the encyclopedia created by the common folk agrees with me.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Apparently, what they do where you live is not the same as what they do in anywhere I've lived. In the world I live in businesses do not close for 4th of July, and Groundhog day and Valentine's Day are referred to as holidays. Wikipedia, the encyclopedia created by the common folk agrees with me.

Not the first time Wikipedia has had an error. Now go to the real authority -- the dictionary -- on what the term "holiday" actually means. And then go find some "common folk" who seriously refer to either Groundhog Day or Valentine's Day as a "holiday." (I mean, other than yourself.) LOL gotta get that Groundhog Day shopping done early.....

If banks, government offices and *most* non-retail businesses are open on the Fourth of July in Colorado (or anywhere else in the U.S.,) I will eat my hat. Most full-time non-contract employees will get either a paid day off work, or if they *do* work on the holiday, most will be paid "holiday pay" -- time and a half or even double time. Certainly not the case on Groundhog Day or Valentine's Day.

Maybe we should do a poll -- how many here on VJ get a paid day off work for the Fourth of July, or extra compensation for working that day ?

And how many here on VJ consider Groundhog Day a "holiday" ?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Sorry, kid. You gotta get up early to beat me when it comes to cultural norms. I know a little bit about the subject. The dictionary is not the vanguard of culture; it is, in fact, a lagging indicator. Get to know the common folk, WOM.

Holiday: Groundhog Day

Who knows a hoilday better than Hallmark Cards? Holiday: Groundhog Day

Holiday: Groundhog Day

Holiday: Groundhog Day

Holiday: Groundhog Day

Holiday: Groundhog Day

Holiday: Groundhog Day

Holiday: Groundhog Day

Holiday: Groundhog Day

Holiday: Groundhog Day Note: this one mentions Groundhog Day and Valentine's Day in the realm of hoildays.

Holiday: Groundhog Day

Holiday: Groundhog Day

Holiday: Groundhog Day

Holiday: Groundhog Day

Holiday: Groundhog Day

Holiday: Groundhog Day

I could do the same with Valentine Day, but it's too easy.

I said businesses were open on the 4th of July, and that's true. You are the one who added government offices and banks. Still, business' closing is not the measure of the making of a hoilday, nor of its legitimacy.

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

If it ain't a day-off work, it ain't a holiday.

[natty bumppo 297]

If it ain't a day-off work, it ain't a holiday.

Narrow vision ...

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

Or maybe a joke. Geez-!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If it ain't a day-off work, it ain't a holiday.

Narrow vision ...

[natty bumppo 297]

Or maybe a joke. Geez-!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If it ain't a day-off work, it ain't a holiday.

Narrow vision ...

Oops ... no worries ....