Please be honest with me...

[Divine Mercy 0]

You don't have to be a black woman to kno prejudice.. We as women should be standing together in unity, and pride for womanhood..not bickering about sterotypes or trying to analyze the errors of our ways! We really are not so different. We just express ourselves differently.

Very true! We ALL know what it is to be treated as a lesser person because we're not male in some way shape or form. We all experience life as a woman.. along with the good, bad and ugly sides.

I want to say to Divine...i'm sorry to have guided this bus in the wrong direction! LOL But really what i was trying to point out is that everyone has a reason for their opinions...and it should never be seen as a generalization because a certain person, of a certain race, color or age has one that differs from urs. If u want to kno why they have that opinion...ask the person. I think we all kno..not just by evidence of this subject and postings..but from our own experiences that some people are prejudice...i am sure if asked why, each would give u a different reason! There's alot to be said for a person who can accept one's opinion without placing judgement on that person. Thats where thick skins come in handy! All we can do is worry about ourselves and leave the rest up to God.

You didn't really steer it in the wrong direction, it wasn't the direction I would have gone in but like you said we all have reasons for our opinions. I was hoping to get different perspectives and that's exactly what I got.

[Divine Mercy 0]

Divine Mercy- The only issue I can take with what you said is that you hear the comments about black people from other white people and you say that you want to do whatever. When you do nothing, in their eyes you agree with them. So check their A$$ES! After all they are talking about your husband and child, and if more did that eventually they can only make their comments in the secracy of their homes because they will know that other people got tired of hearing that BULLSHIOT or don't subscribe to bigotry!!!!!!

I didn't post what my reaction is, just what I feel like doing. I can't really expect to be treated with respect if I treat others disrespectfully no matter how ignorant I think they are. My initial reaction is to start swinging. After counting to ten I usually say something along the lines of, "you don't REALLY feel that way do you?". 99% of the time the answer is no, which I follow up with, "why say something like that then?" They mumble, feeling like an idiot while walking away. At least it gets them to think about what nonsense they are spouting and what they really feel about it in their heart. If their answer is "Yes, I do really feel that way" my response goes something like, "you can't really be that stupid can you?" or "wow, what kind of mother raised a f*cktard like you?" Depends on my mood and the person saying it. Because although I would be defending my husband and son by confronting them, I will also be defending my family by letting it go and praying for them. The people I'm talking about will burn my house down, I kid you not.

[Divine Mercy 0]

The O.P. asked questions about what were the black women thinking and as I stated earlier, I gave her some possible synopsis'.

You did exactly what I hoped someone would do. I know what white people say because I live in a white world. Although there are millions of different experiences, there are only a number of popular prevalent opinions. What I mean is, the majority of white racists will say very similar things. I don't know what goes on when no white people are around, I was hoping to get the inside scoop on the more common opinions regarding this issue and you gave me just that, so thank you very much. Although it hurts to hear, that's what is said by some and that's what I wanted to know. I do realize the suggestions you gave may or may not be the opinions of the ladies at work, but they are opinions of some people that I may have to face in life. So thank you for giving me a better understanding of this.

[Divine Mercy 0]

To DivineMercy- If anything that I said offended you, charge it to my head and not my heart. I thought I went through your post step by step and answered each of your questions whole heartedly, truthfully, and from a clearmind set.

Yes you did, I do appreciate that. Although I would like to ask you and Besangin AND ose_n_me to try to stand back from the feelings of it all and try to look at things objectively in an effort to educate all of us in here.

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not accusing anyone of being insensative or wrong in any way. It is a passionate subject and emotions can run high. Give details. Explain why you feel the way you do. If you feel open enough to do so, give examples from your own life.

This is something that hits all of us close to home for different reasons. It can legitimately be argued that it hits some more close to home than others. Obviously, it has been stated and overstated that we're not African American so we can't possibly know what it means to be. My plea to you three is to try to gain a better understanding of what you have each endured in life causing you to feel the way you do.

As I have pointed out ad nausea, I have heard more than a heart should bear from white people regarding the racism that exists among "us" (us as white, not us as racists). Just as I asked what might be going on in the minds of the ladies at work because I don't have the opportunity to hear the other side of the story. What are people thinking? Why are they thinking it? What have the witnessed and how could it have been something that was misinterpreted? How can we, as human beings, come to a better understanding of one another without actually BEING one another. We were all given the lives we were given and can't do anything about it. Repeatedly telling someone they can't understand because they aren't something is not really productive, no matter how true it is.

Knowing the fact that none of us can change what outside attributes we were born with, what CAN we do to better understand one another?

ose_n_me listed her credentials in an effort (it seemed to me) to have her opinions validated. This was seen as obnoxious (possibly) and not really valuable.

There may be some inside scoop I can provide that you may or may not be aware of (this is addressed to unononehigher and besangin) the choice we make to marry a black man and have mixed children can and does cause severe ostracism by our own families and friends. Whatever they may be thinking and saying about you, they are thinking and saying worse about us. No we can never be black women. But we have invested our entire lives into these relationships and willingly taken on hatred for the sake of loving our spouses and children (which is worth a million times more suffering!) I hate that the world is the way it is but I certainly didn't run from it when I chose my husband and clearly neither did ose_n_me. These are our families.

Someone said something regarding having mixed children, if the child appears to be more African than European, she will never understand what that child is living through. Sure that's true. You can't actually LIVE another person's life. It was mentioned that she will feel compassion and heartbreak for that child though. That is so true, doesn't that amount to anything? I don't know any mother who can witness her child's suffering and not suffer double. Although ose_n_me is not African American, her credentials to me speak volumes. She genuinely cares. She is invested in this with everything she is.

What do you want us to do? I'm not saying this in an angry way. It's a serious question. What do you want us to do to better understand you? How can we gain a better understanding of one another?

I realize I'm not going to change the ladies at work or anyone in the world. God does the changing not me. I don't want to fill my heart with resentment over things I don't really understand. If I knew where they were coming from I could have more compassion and empathy. That is my goal. It seems to me that it is the goal of many of us here. We're all trying to learn from one another. But it also seems that when an attempt is made it is shot down with the dismissal of, you will never understand because you don't live it. We can't live it. Can we come up with a better solution? Maybe there are issues in your own minds or the minds of your friends and family about us that we can help alleviate or at least shed some light on the "why those crazy white chicks do what they do". Racism comes from both sides and both need to gain a deeper insight.

I am writing this fast with the TV blaring in the background (which is giving me a painful headache) and I know i'm not thinking things through totally but I accept that I'm going to be ripped a new butthole over this. Please be patient and kind. I truly value your opinions and criticisms.

Merry Christmas to you all! I hope you all find joy and peace in your lives during this time of remembering the King of all who entered the world for us all. I hope for us all to remember the mother that gave birth to the Son, as mothers, wives and women we are so closely united to her sufferings and joys on that day!

[stevi1123 0]

To DivineMercy- If anything that I said offended you, charge it to my head and not my heart. I thought I went through your post step by step and answered each of your questions whole heartedly, truthfully, and from a clearmind set.

Yes you did, I do appreciate that. Although I would like to ask you and Besangin AND ose_n_me to try to stand back from the feelings of it all and try to look at things objectively in an effort to educate all of us in here.

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not accusing anyone of being insensative or wrong in any way. It is a passionate subject and emotions can run high. Give details. Explain why you feel the way you do. If you feel open enough to do so, give examples from your own life.

This is something that hits all of us close to home for different reasons. It can legitimately be argued that it hits some more close to home than others. Obviously, it has been stated and overstated that we're not African American so we can't possibly know what it means to be. My plea to you three is to try to gain a better understanding of what you have each endured in life causing you to feel the way you do.

As I have pointed out ad nausea, I have heard more than a heart should bear from white people regarding the racism that exists among "us" (us as white, not us as racists). Just as I asked what might be going on in the minds of the ladies at work because I don't have the opportunity to hear the other side of the story. What are people thinking? Why are they thinking it? What have the witnessed and how could it have been something that was misinterpreted? How can we, as human beings, come to a better understanding of one another without actually BEING one another. We were all given the lives we were given and can't do anything about it. Repeatedly telling someone they can't understand because they aren't something is not really productive, no matter how true it is.

Knowing the fact that none of us can change what outside attributes we were born with, what CAN we do to better understand one another?

ose_n_me listed her credentials in an effort (it seemed to me) to have her opinions validated. This was seen as obnoxious (possibly) and not really valuable.

There may be some inside scoop I can provide that you may or may not be aware of (this is addressed to unononehigher and besangin) the choice we make to marry a black man and have mixed children can and does cause severe ostracism by our own families and friends. Whatever they may be thinking and saying about you, they are thinking and saying worse about us. No we can never be black women. But we have invested our entire lives into these relationships and willingly taken on hatred for the sake of loving our spouses and children (which is worth a million times more suffering!) I hate that the world is the way it is but I certainly didn't run from it when I chose my husband and clearly neither did ose_n_me. These are our families.

Someone said something regarding having mixed children, if the child appears to be more African than European, she will never understand what that child is living through. Sure that's true. You can't actually LIVE another person's life. It was mentioned that she will feel compassion and heartbreak for that child though. That is so true, doesn't that amount to anything? I don't know any mother who can witness her child's suffering and not suffer double. Although ose_n_me is not African American, her credentials to me speak volumes. She genuinely cares. She is invested in this with everything she is.

What do you want us to do? I'm not saying this in an angry way. It's a serious question. What do you want us to do to better understand you? How can we gain a better understanding of one another?

I realize I'm not going to change the ladies at work or anyone in the world. God does the changing not me. I don't want to fill my heart with resentment over things I don't really understand. If I knew where they were coming from I could have more compassion and empathy. That is my goal. It seems to me that it is the goal of many of us here. We're all trying to learn from one another. But it also seems that when an attempt is made it is shot down with the dismissal of, you will never understand because you don't live it. We can't live it. Can we come up with a better solution? Maybe there are issues in your own minds or the minds of your friends and family about us that we can help alleviate or at least shed some light on the "why those crazy white chicks do what they do". Racism comes from both sides and both need to gain a deeper insight.

I am writing this fast with the TV blaring in the background (which is giving me a painful headache) and I know i'm not thinking things through totally but I accept that I'm going to be ripped a new butthole over this. Please be patient and kind. I truly value your opinions and criticisms.

Merry Christmas to you all! I hope you all find joy and peace in your lives during this time of remembering the King of all who entered the world for us all. I hope for us all to remember the mother that gave birth to the Son, as mothers, wives and women we are so closely united to her sufferings and joys on that day!

Divine Mercy,

I must say honestly, that I respect you for having the desire to seek clarity. This subject has been debated, discussed, disheveled, dismissed and ressurected so many times over the years. Although we have progressed some as a society, we have yet to come very far. But I do believe that the only way change is gonna come is through mature approaches such as yours.

I am a black woman.

I commend you for taking this heart-felt approach to seeking your answers. I see nothing wrong whatsoever with your asking these questions. I pray that your work atmosphere becomes more comfortable over time.

As the saying goes: "If you can't change the people around you - Change the people around you."

[LonelyforLagos 0]

Divine Mercy from an older black woman to a younger white woman the only racist I see on this forum is you. What does any of this bickering that you started have to do with immigration? I can't take any more. You sound insecure with your decisions as well.

I'm a strong black woman who knows what she wants and where she is going. I don't need VJ's approval for my life choices. You made a decison not only to marry a black man but to have his child.......to late to start second guessing now!

And another thing, just because you married a black man does not mean you love all black people.....please! The fact that you started all this mess then stood back while black folk ripped each other to shrewds lets me know that your husband is in for a bumpy ride, since Nigerians tend to be very close once they get to America you will have plenty of opportunities to express your black & white opinions to them.

[boo boo 1]

Hello Everyone

This whole thread seems to be a complete mess...everyone is misinterupting everyones quotes and statements. I can understand the differences but there is no need for attacks or criticism. We all came from one creator and we all breath the same air and have the same flesh and blood.

Divine Mercy, you are a beautiful person and I know that you have a very loving heart. Personally, there are going to be some people (from different walks of life) that have issues or bitterness in their hearts and you just have to understand that and move on...just be you and maybe one day they will overcome whatever is bothering them and will be more friendly towards you...if not all you can do is pray for them.

I have encountered people (various races) like this before, but a Korean lady once told me that I should not let everything I hear go to my heart...sometimes I just need to let it go in one ear and out of the other. That was some valuable advice that I needed to hear at the time.

Many blessings to all and have a beautiful day and a very prosperous New Years.

[Ta Ta 1]

Divine Mercy from an older black woman to a younger white woman the only racist I see on this forum is you. What does any of this bickering that you started have to do with immigration? I can't take any more. You sound insecure with your decisions as well.

I'm a strong black woman who knows what she wants and where she is going. I don't need VJ's approval for my life choices. You made a decison not only to marry a black man but to have his child.......to late to start second guessing now!

And another thing, just because you married a black man does not mean you love all black people.....please! The fact that you started all this mess then stood back while black folk ripped each other to shrewds lets me know that your husband is in for a bumpy ride, since Nigerians tend to be very close once they get to America you will have plenty of opportunities to express your black & white opinions to them.

Against TOS calling divinemercy a racist and you are out of order.

As usual you do not " get it " and this is just another one of your posts that reflects that.

This board has off topics within regional forums and everyone has a right to post their opinions here. You post in other threads that have nothing to

do with immigration so why single this one out ! It has everything to do with social/cultural issues.

If you don't like it don't read it.

Divinemercy has put the topic back on track in a peaceful and respectful manner after a heated discussion.

Your view that she started the topic and then stood back to watch African Americans rip each other to shrewds ( I guess you meant shreds ).

is absurd and confirms that you do not comprehend the context of the individual posts. The African American woman here have spoken as one

voice for the most part. You either have issues or a lack of understanding what was said to whom.

Please try to think before you activate the reply button.

[Zee Bee 61]

Divine Mercy from an older black woman to a younger white woman the only racist I see on this forum is you. What does any of this bickering that you started have to do with immigration? I can't take any more. You sound insecure with your decisions as well.

I'm a strong black woman who knows what she wants and where she is going. I don't need VJ's approval for my life choices. You made a decison not only to marry a black man but to have his child.......to late to start second guessing now!

And another thing, just because you married a black man does not mean you love all black people.....please! The fact that you started all this mess then stood back while black folk ripped each other to shrewds lets me know that your husband is in for a bumpy ride, since Nigerians tend to be very close once they get to America you will have plenty of opportunities to express your black & white opinions to them.

I don't see where Divine Mercy is a racist. She came here asking for our opinions, not approval, on a matter that she was having some difficulty with and she turned to those of us who may have more experience to get our views. The fact that others have taken this topic and turned it into something else is not under her control. You came on and made some unrelated remarks yourself.

She has been here sharing her experiences while encouraging and helping others on their journeys. I am sure that she is not the first and will not be the last to ask these questions and deal with these issues.

[Ahmed N Cheryl 0]

You have to live your life the way that makes you happy. I believe all are created equal by God. All races have their good people and their bad people. I am white and my Fiancee is an Egyptian Muslim. My Father will not approve I am sure. He already made a comment I didn't care for. But I am not really close to my Father. My Mother and Father were divorced when I was 3 and I was practically grown already when he became a part of my life again. I love my Father because he is my Father and he is very good to me. But I will not let his opinion influence me on who I marry or don't. He has made some bad choices in his life to and I still accept him and love him and that is wha I expect from him no more no less. My sisters are all very accepting. My Mother is fine also. My Great Aunt didn't really say much when she found out yesterday at Christmas dinner.....Of course my neice brought her black boyfriend to Christmas dinner and that got more attention then my young Egyptian Muslim Fiancee. Needless to say my Aunt just couldn't believe my sister would let her daughter date a black guy. But the rest of the family was okay. However, my Dad doesn't know about that one yet. We all have different opinions. But you have to live your life to make you happy. I think you have an excellent attitude...continue being nice and doing your job and go home to your husband and son who love you and pray for them every night that God will touch thier hearts about this issue. God is good everyday. All you have to do is ask. I pray everyday that when Ahmed is here everyone will accept him. But if it doesn't happen I will still be Happy to be with him finally. I have carried on enough. Merry Christmas and may God Bless You.

Cheryl

[Divine Mercy 0]

Divine Mercy from an older black woman to a younger white woman the only racist I see on this forum is you. What does any of this bickering that you started have to do with immigration? I can't take any more. You sound insecure with your decisions as well.

I'm a strong black woman who knows what she wants and where she is going. I don't need VJ's approval for my life choices. You made a decison not only to marry a black man but to have his child.......to late to start second guessing now!

And another thing, just because you married a black man does not mean you love all black people.....please! The fact that you started all this mess then stood back while black folk ripped each other to shrewds lets me know that your husband is in for a bumpy ride, since Nigerians tend to be very close once they get to America you will have plenty of opportunities to express your black & white opinions to them.

I have been asked to ignore this but I can't.

What does this bickering have to do with immigration? Nothing. Did I ever imply that it did? I was asking a question about a situation I am facing at work.. in america among americans.

Insecure with my decisions? I would like to know how you read that into what I said. Either way, I'm not insecure about the decisions I made, just curious about the reactions my decisions causes in the people around me. Their reactions do not change the choices I made and my confidence in making them. It simply makes me want to better understand their reactions to them. If I implied otherwise, I apologize for not being clear enough.

Good for you for being head strong and knowing where you want to go in life. I'm not sure where I want to go in various aspects of my life but my marriage is not one of them. VJ is a great support system for people like myself who are trying to obtain what we want. If I were not so sure would I be going through this visa journey in the first place? I can assure you, I would not put my children or myself through this torturous system if I was unsure of what I wanted. The people in VJ are wonderful (for the most part) but I certainly don't look for, expect or NEED validation from anyone in here. God gives me value, not your opinion of me.

Second guessing my choices to marry my husband or have my child? Huh? I think I already answered. Wanting to understand people's reactions to my choices DOES NOT make me second guess my choices, it makes me question the people who have the opinions. If you had even the remotest idea of what you were talking about regarding MY LIFE, you wouldn't have made such a blatantly offensive, asinine comment. You have no idea what I have gone through to bring life to my child who's very existence is a blessing and miracle. How dare you even suggest, let alone state that I second guess his existence?

Did I ever make the claim that I love all black people? I don't love all of any race. I try to see Jesus (whom I love) in all people. We are called to love ALL people. I try but it's a struggle.... I can't see Him in you.

Did I make the claim that I feel more compassion now, that's true. Hang me for it.

I stood back while everyone ripped each other to shreds? As soon as I read the replies I posted. I do not have the luxury of sitting at the computer all day waiting for each response to roll in. I didn't realize that posting a question required keeping vigil at the computer. Unlike what you seem to believe about my life, VJ is not my be all end all. It does not validate my marriage, give value to the existence of my son or consume my every waking thought.

I don't even know what to say about your last sentence other then umm ok sure.

Shouldn't I consider you a home wrecker now? Since my marriage is totally dependent on the member's of VJ and their opinions, I should just leave him now and give my child up for adoption being the racist that you say I am. You said it, it MUST be true. And I am totally dependent on your opinion. It is my world. Excuse me while I go hang myself since you have decided I'm not worthy. You know how fragile, insecure and solely dependent upon you that I am, didn't you even for once stop to think about what your comments would do to my pitiful life?

[Divine Mercy 0]

Thank you boo boo, omoba and zee for actually getting it and for kindly coming to my defense. I should have read the whole thread before reacting. I'm sorry for the last comments I made, I was a little angry. I shouldn't have been sarcastic.

Today is a great day to ask the King of Peace to bring peace into all of our lives!

Merry Christmas to you all, God bless you!

[Ta Ta 1]

Divine Mercy, the fact is that Longingforlagos has no clue nor comprehension about the content of this thread and who said what or who is even

black or white. She is throughly confused and in attack mode and may even have you mixed up with another poster. Nothing she wrote made sense and this is not the first time in her posting style.

The last sentence was structured in a way that made me go huh? Nigerians like to be close together here and what does that have to do with the price of tea in china ?!

Forget it, you stated very clearly the points you made. You got some answers and strong opinions. All valid and thought provoking.

I am just sorry for you to get called names like that by a clueless poster and on Christmas of all times. Some people lack the grace and style

to communicate and are only able to resort to name calling.

May they see this for the sake of their marriage.

Merry Christmas !

[stevi1123 0]

Divine Mercy from an older black woman to a younger white woman the only racist I see on this forum is you. What does any of this bickering that you started have to do with immigration? I can't take any more. You sound insecure with your decisions as well.

I'm a strong black woman who knows what she wants and where she is going. I don't need VJ's approval for my life choices. You made a decison not only to marry a black man but to have his child.......to late to start second guessing now!

And another thing, just because you married a black man does not mean you love all black people.....please! The fact that you started all this mess then stood back while black folk ripped each other to shrewds lets me know that your husband is in for a bumpy ride, since Nigerians tend to be very close once they get to America you will have plenty of opportunities to express your black & white opinions to them.

I have been asked to ignore this but I can't.

What does this bickering have to do with immigration? Nothing. Did I ever imply that it did? I was asking a question about a situation I am facing at work.. in america among americans.

Insecure with my decisions? I would like to know how you read that into what I said. Either way, I'm not insecure about the decisions I made, just curious about the reactions my decisions causes in the people around me. Their reactions do not change the choices I made and my confidence in making them. It simply makes me want to better understand their reactions to them. If I implied otherwise, I apologize for not being clear enough.

Good for you for being head strong and knowing where you want to go in life. I'm not sure where I want to go in various aspects of my life but my marriage is not one of them. VJ is a great support system for people like myself who are trying to obtain what we want. If I were not so sure would I be going through this visa journey in the first place? I can assure you, I would not put my children or myself through this torturous system if I was unsure of what I wanted. The people in VJ are wonderful (for the most part) but I certainly don't look for, expect or NEED validation from anyone in here. God gives me value, not your opinion of me.

Second guessing my choices to marry my husband or have my child? Huh? I think I already answered. Wanting to understand people's reactions to my choices DOES NOT make me second guess my choices, it makes me question the people who have the opinions. If you had even the remotest idea of what you were talking about regarding MY LIFE, you wouldn't have made such a blatantly offensive, asinine comment. You have no idea what I have gone through to bring life to my child who's very existence is a blessing and miracle. How dare you even suggest, let alone state that I second guess his existence?

Did I ever make the claim that I love all black people? I don't love all of any race. I try to see Jesus (whom I love) in all people. We are called to love ALL people. I try but it's a struggle.... I can't see Him in you.

Did I make the claim that I feel more compassion now, that's true. Hang me for it.

I stood back while everyone ripped each other to shreds? As soon as I read the replies I posted. I do not have the luxury of sitting at the computer all day waiting for each response to roll in. I didn't realize that posting a question required keeping vigil at the computer. Unlike what you seem to believe about my life, VJ is not my be all end all. It does not validate my marriage, give value to the existence of my son or consume my every waking thought.

I don't even know what to say about your last sentence other then umm ok sure.

Shouldn't I consider you a home wrecker now? Since my marriage is totally dependent on the member's of VJ and their opinions, I should just leave him now and give my child up for adoption being the racist that you say I am. You said it, it MUST be true. And I am totally dependent on your opinion. It is my world. Excuse me while I go hang myself since you have decided I'm not worthy. You know how fragile, insecure and solely dependent upon you that I am, didn't you even for once stop to think about what your comments would do to my pitiful life?

Amen!!

[Ta Ta 1]

Divine Mercy, your posts needed no defense. It speaks for itself and is stated with clarity. The problem lies with the person who could not

comprehend it.