Please be honest with me...

[DJ and BJ 0]

QUOTE(unononehigher @ Dec 23 2007, 02:58 PM) *

Typically, if an african american woman sees a white woman or any woman who is not black with one of our very own (regardless of where he's from), the thoughts are "why did he have to be with her, or who does she think she is and last but not least, what, a black woman aint good enough for him, he must have forgotten where he came from!"

Personally, I used to agree with some of those statements until I realized that there are some men in our race that need to be given away

Yeah, I caught that one too, that kind of leaves me wondering...what that 'given away' thing is all about.

So far I think most up here have given you excellent advice. Always be wary of your fellow coworkers and remember they are not your friends. I also second the sentiments of those that have brought up the historical issues that some African American's may have regarding interracial and sadly enough 'intercultural' marriages.

Diasporic Africans have so many issues regarding race and culture within our own 'race/culture' that even our own families have a hard time when (we) African Americans, Africans directly from Africa, or Africans from any other country or culture in the world leave their own cultures and marry Africans of other cultures? (Kind of confusing huh?)

Not only that, there seems to be this myth of 'there is a shortage of good black men' going around in America, so some get jealous when they see black/African men with 'other' women.

It's quite a complex issue. However, all you need to worry about, is making sure that everything in between doesn't affect your relationship.

It's going to be tough sometimes, but what marriage isn't? Just wait until you have to deal with being the 'white woman' raising black children issues come up! Ok ok...my bad, one thing at a time.

Take all of the 'hateration' with a grain of salt, and rejoice in the fact that you are happy, and you have a man that loves you, and married you, and is with none other, but YOU!

All will be fine!

Edited December 24, 2007 by Jene' and Desland

[BESANGIN 0]

Typically, if an african american woman sees a white woman or any woman who is not black with one of our very own (regardless of where he's from), the thoughts are "why did he have to be with her, or who does she think she is and last but not least, what, a black woman aint good enough for him, he must have forgotten where he came from!"

Personally, I used to agree with some of those statements until I realized that there are some men in our race that need to be given away

U have opened up a can of worms now! First let me say that we are all entitled to our opinions. Thats what these forums are for. And no one should be afraid to voice theirs. Matter of fact they should always stand up for what they believe in. And i understand that opinions are formed in several ways: they are taught, formed out of a negative/positive experience, realized over time and maturity, formed from religious interpretations, products of peer pressure, and many more. So to question why someone feels a certain way about something can be a complex task. We are all very different human beings, going thru this life in different places, different races, different faces! But the core of our being should be our God.

I only kno of a few religions that discourage or outright ban mixed race marriage. And to those who practice that religion, that is ur belief and i respect it. But my christian faith tells me that all are created equal. Although different and unique and individual...we are all children of God. It is my opinion that anyone who calls themself a christian, goes to church, reads the bible, and who then can turn around and say its wrong to love a person of a different race, is a hypocrite.

To address the statement i quoted above...i must respect ur opinion, although i don't understand it. A persons choice in a mate is a personal one. It is based on preference, attraction, compatability, interests, similar thoughts, opinions, goals, views on life, spiritual connection etc. Your comment made it seem as tho u think its just on a color basis. And even more disturbing, u feel that there is fundamentally something better or worse about a woman because of her color. U cant be so naive as to think that white women choose to love a black man just so there is one less for u! Or that we think we are better or more deserving. And why cant a black man make that choice without being judged as someone "not knoing where he came from", or "selling out". Do u hear how riduculous all this sounds. Its not about u! Its not about color! Its not about race! Its about love, choice, and humankind. Why should anyone care what someone else is doing, as long as they are happy, living a righteous life in God's eyes, and being a good human being.

And it really bothered me, the comment made that "I used to agree with some of those statements until I realized that there are some men in our race that need to be given away"..WOW..this implies you think that black men who date outside their race are somehow no good, or not worthy, or don't deserve the same amt of respect as other black men. Stop thinking their choices are a personal attack on black women! Can't everyone just be judged on their character and integrity, and not on who they choose to spend their life with.

racism (n.) The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

In closing i would like to say that i will never pretend that i kno what its like to be black, nor african...i will never kno the true battles that were fought...I was not there in the days of slavery, or during the civil rights era...but please do not think i don't still feel the pain. I am ashamed of my people, and others who have done such atrocites to our own humankind. But please don't blame me for the hatred of others. I wish to be judged as an individual. Not as a reflection of the past.

I really could go on and on about this, as I have written alot about this subject, both as opinion and personal experience. I have been dating black men exclusively my entire life,(i'm 42) and have 3 beautiful biracial children. I have been in the black culture and lifestyle for a long time, and have experienced my share of prejudice! Racism goes both ways. Always has...always will.

God help us see beyond color and race...and begin to love each other unconditionally! AMEN.

[Simply_Uno 1]

Salutations,

If your can of worms got open, it was not my doing. They were there before I existed, you are using my statement out of context.

You state that "...although i don't understand it." What is not to understand about my statement, I gave a generalized view, not explicitly categorially of all black women. The original poster asked "what are they really thinking?" and I gave her a short, brief synopsis of possibilities.

You state "Your comment made it seem as tho u think its just on a color basis."

Correction, that is YOUR interpretation of what I said, I can not control your lack of context understanding so don't blame me for your deep seated rooted issues.

"And even more disturbing, u feel that there is fundamentally something better or worse about a woman because of her color."

And again, that is your interpretation, your problem and so far you are still wrong about my intents.

"U cant be so naive as to think that white women choose to love a black man just so there is one less for u!"First of all, before you start assuming you know what deficits I may have, REWIND, and CORRECT YO'SELF. Up unitl I got married, I had an active membership card to the "Minority Womens Rainbow Coalition for Dating INC,"

so THERE HAS NEVER BEEN NEVER A SHORTAGE OF MEN FOR UNO!

" Or that we think we are better or more deserving." Sounds like you have a repressive superiority complex going on, I am not a therapist, nor do I practice one while masterbating. Moving on....

"And why cant a black man make that choice without being judged as someone "not knoing where he came from", or "selling out".

And again, YOU ARE OUT OF CONTEXT AND OUT OF ORDER!

Do u hear how riduculous all this sounds.

DO YOU HEAR HOW RIDICULOUS YOU SOUND...

Its not about u! I never once said it was about me, you turned this on me instead of where it was originally intended.

Its not about color! Well now, yes it is. she stated "This post is aimed mostly at the wonderful African American women who post so eloquently in this forum." And that leaves you where...and she went on to further state " But of course, all feedback is welcomed and appreciated."

"Its not about race!" Already dressed issue (see above^)

Its about love, choice, and humankind. Why should anyone care what someone else is doing, as long as they are happy, living a righteous life in God's eyes, and being a good human being. And if you honestly feel that way, then why am I your sounding board for December 22, 2007??

"And it really bothered me, the comment made that "I used to agree with some of those statements until I realized that there are some men in our race that need to be given away"..WOW..this implies you think that black men who date outside their race are somehow no good, or not worthy, or don't deserve the same amt of respect as other black men."

First of all, I don't give a damn about what bothers you. Get it straight. Moving on to your sad interpretations...yet again. No, all this implies is that you are not capable of reading things within context, your interpretation of statements are filled delusional inuendos and full of deep seated issues. Sorry, I am not a therapist. And for the record, I am the PROUD MOTHER OF THREE AFRICAN KINGS, so for your summary of my intent to be true according to sanity, I must hate myself and my children and that is not NO WHERE NEAR BEING TRUE!!

"Stop thinking their choices are a personal attack on black women! Can't everyone just be judged on their character and integrity, and not on who they choose to spend their life with. racism (n.) The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others."

You are in no authority to JUDGE my thinking, thank you very much. And I absolutely love your way of deflecting your issues upon me, but I am here to inform you that I do not grow from personal attacks.

In closing i would like to say that i will never pretend that i kno what its like to be black, nor african...i will never kno the true battles that were fought...I was not there in the days of slavery, or during the civil rights era...but please do not think i don't still feel the pain. I am ashamed of my people, and others who have done such atrocites to our own humankind. But please don't blame me for the hatred of others. I wish to be judged as an individual. Not as a reflection of the past.

Oh, really, You just did, by attempting to discredit and invalidate what I just said.

Now in closing. Every one have a Blessed Christamas and Prosperous New Year

[Simply_Uno 1]

Typically, if an african american woman sees a white woman or any woman who is not black with one of our very own (regardless of where he's from), the thoughts are "why did he have to be with her, or who does she think she is and last but not least, what, a black woman aint good enough for him, he must have forgotten where he came from!"

Personally, I used to agree with some of those statements until I realized that there are some men in our race that need to be given away (that theory applies both ways not just to blacks but all races)! I also realized that to each his or her own, who am I to judge...so I guess I must have experienced some sort of growth.

If you are going to quote me, quote me right.

[MaRob 0]

I think Generally its an age bracket thing... I haven't met any younger people <30yrs who have said anything negative about it. We have just been raised differently, integration was never an issue. 30-50 i think they are divided, and GENERALLY over 50yrs old, they have a hard time accepting it... it is just the way they were raised, with segregation and the whole taboo of it. Unless some of these <30 year olds were raised being taught heavy critism against other races by their parents, they should not have been given any other seeds of racism growing up.

In my own case, my father was very much against me marrying a black guy, let alone from Africa, at first. He is a christian, but was surprised when I didn't find it odd or out of place, even though i grew up in the same home as him. He isn't a hateful man, and he even has several friends of many different races, but somehow the thought of marrying a different race was "wrong" to him. We ended up having to go see our pastor, and my pastor explained it as roots of racism that he didn't even realize were there, but were probably planted long ago by the way he was raised. He was also in school around the time of integration, and even had a mexican girlfriend once, but was so mercilessly hounded by his family for it that he eventually let her go.

I am happy to say that now, my father is one of our biggest supporters and he loves Magnus as much as I do , but it took God changing his heart as it will anyone who has been raised all their lives to believe things a certain way and is being asked to change the way they think.

Magnus' family had no problems with me, just a couple of OLDER grandparents gave him a hard time. But I am very lucky that his family is so wonderful

[BESANGIN 0]

Typically, if an african american woman sees a white woman or any woman who is not black with one of our very own (regardless of where he's from), the thoughts are "why did he have to be with her, or who does she think she is and last but not least, what, a black woman aint good enough for him, he must have forgotten where he came from!"

Personally, I used to agree with some of those statements until I realized that there are some men in our race that need to be given away

U have opened up a can of worms now! First let me say that we are all entitled to our opinions. Thats what these forums are for. And no one should be afraid to voice theirs. Matter of fact they should always stand up for what they believe in. And i understand that opinions are formed in several ways: they are taught, formed out of a negative/positive experience, realized over time and maturity, formed from religious interpretations, products of peer pressure, and many more. So to question why someone feels a certain way about something can be a complex task. We are all very different human beings, going thru this life in different places, different races, different faces! But the core of our being should be our God.

I only kno of a few religions that discourage or outright ban mixed race marriage. And to those who practice that religion, that is ur belief and i respect it. But my christian faith tells me that all are created equal. Although different and unique and individual...we are all children of God. It is my opinion that anyone who calls themself a christian, goes to church, reads the bible, and who then can turn around and say its wrong to love a person of a different race, is a hypocrite.

To address the statement i quoted above...i must respect ur opinion, although i don't understand it. A persons choice in a mate is a personal one. It is based on preference, attraction, compatability, interests, similar thoughts, opinions, goals, views on life, spiritual connection etc. Your comment made it seem as tho u think its just on a color basis. And even more disturbing, u feel that there is fundamentally something better or worse about a woman because of her color. U cant be so naive as to think that white women choose to love a black man just so there is one less for u! Or that we think we are better or more deserving. And why cant a black man make that choice without being judged as someone "not knoing where he came from", or "selling out". Do u hear how riduculous all this sounds. Its not about u! Its not about color! Its not about race! Its about love, choice, and humankind. Why should anyone care what someone else is doing, as long as they are happy, living a righteous life in God's eyes, and being a good human being.

And it really bothered me, the comment made that "I used to agree with some of those statements until I realized that there are some men in our race that need to be given away"..WOW..this implies you think that black men who date outside their race are somehow no good, or not worthy, or don't deserve the same amt of respect as other black men. Stop thinking their choices are a personal attack on black women! Can't everyone just be judged on their character and integrity, and not on who they choose to spend their life with.

racism (n.) The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

In closing i would like to say that i will never pretend that i kno what its like to be black, nor african...i will never kno the true battles that were fought...I was not there in the days of slavery, or during the civil rights era...but please do not think i don't still feel the pain. I am ashamed of my people, and others who have done such atrocites to our own humankind. But please don't blame me for the hatred of others. I wish to be judged as an individual. Not as a reflection of the past.

I really could go on and on about this, as I have written alot about this subject, both as opinion and personal experience. I have been dating black men exclusively my entire life,(i'm 42) and have 3 beautiful biracial children. I have been in the black culture and lifestyle for a long time, and have experienced my share of prejudice! Racism goes both ways. Always has...always will.

God help us see beyond color and race...and begin to love each other unconditionally! AMEN.

Wow that was quite a blast on that posters comments, and you could not be more WRONG in calling what she said ridiculous. First of all if you have not walked a mile in the shoes of a black woman you cannot FATHOM what it is like trying to carve something positive for yourself in this country. And how can you understand that when you are not a black woman. Believe me my sister, our struggle is far from over. Again there is always exceptions to the rule, but African American women are not only devalued by society, but also by our very own black men. A lot of it has been caused by society, and a lot caused by our own community. Look at the television, magazines, movies, what do you see, not US! when you are constantly baraged with that day after day what is that saying to us? What do you see the celebrities with at the premiere's and in the magazines. How are proud African American woman supposed to feel? We feel like we don't matter and we have to fight twice as hard to get less than you. I'm not going to go any further with that 'cause it can get heated and it is off the path of what the OP asked, but I urge you to talk to a sister and have her explain that to you so you can see that that is not ridiculous coming from a woman who lives it. You know I would really be happy to talk to you about it. PM me. Not to argue, but to really help you get a glimpse into a black woman's eyes and understand. I bet your children are beautiful, but when they are older I pray that you have and will prepare them well for what society will dish out on them. It's sad but it is very true. Racism is alive and well and doesn't look like we are going to extinguish it any time soon in this country, especially when there is so much disparity between the races.

Divine Mercy- It is probably not possible to answer your question to a degree that you will be without controversy in your marriage. If you understand that segregation was in full swing less than 50 years ago, but a lot of older people in general still carry that. Although some may truly be racists some are actually just old school and that was the way it was. You didn't mix races. My great uncle's grandfather was a slave and my uncle grew up in that era after slavery but he was in the era of lynchings, and to the day he died in the early 90's he never would look a white man in his eyes. Because that is what they were taught. Not making excuses for them (the AA ladies), but I hope that gives you a different perspective into it. What is wrong is to treat you like a leper because of it. But you are on the road to changing hearts because that is what it will take. Don't stop being a Christian becasue someone else needs a heart check, and I for one believe killing a person with kindness works. But love your man, love your family and love your enemies. Asking questions about things we don't know and don't understand is the way to overcome racism. I had a coworker who used to be terrified of me because I was black, and frankly I hated her for that, but I had to remember I was a Christian and I needed to love her. So I started to ask her questions about things white people did that I didn't know about and she started doing the same thing to. we realized outside of our cultural differences we were the same. She is one of my very best friends in the whole wide world today. I love my Shell Bell. Her family on the other hand did not take kindly to our friendship, but because we held steadfast to it, they finally accepted me. Even her dad and he was old school racists. So persevere. Love knows no color and we just need to keep praying that one day America will know no colors.

[BESANGIN 0]

Salutations,

If your can of worms got open, it was not my doing. They were there before I existed, you are using my statement out of context.

You state that "...although i don't understand it." What is not to understand about my statement, I gave a generalized view, not explicitly categorially of all black women. The original poster asked "what are they really thinking?" and I gave her a short, brief synopsis of possibilities.

You state "Your comment made it seem as tho u think its just on a color basis."

Correction, that is YOUR interpretation of what I said, I can not control your lack of context understanding so don't blame me for your deep seated rooted issues.

"And even more disturbing, u feel that there is fundamentally something better or worse about a woman because of her color."

And again, that is your interpretation, your problem and so far you are still wrong about my intents.

"U cant be so naive as to think that white women choose to love a black man just so there is one less for u!"First of all, before you start assuming you know what deficits I may have, REWIND, and CORRECT YO'SELF. Up unitl I got married, I had an active membership card to the "Minority Womens Rainbow Coalition for Dating INC,"

so THERE HAS NEVER BEEN NEVER A SHORTAGE OF MEN FOR UNO!

" Or that we think we are better or more deserving." Sounds like you have a repressive superiority complex going on, I am not a therapist, nor do I practice one while masterbating. Moving on....

"And why cant a black man make that choice without being judged as someone "not knoing where he came from", or "selling out".

And again, YOU ARE OUT OF CONTEXT AND OUT OF ORDER!

Do u hear how riduculous all this sounds.

DO YOU HEAR HOW RIDICULOUS YOU SOUND...

Its not about u! I never once said it was about me, you turned this on me instead of where it was originally intended.

Its not about color! Well now, yes it is. she stated "This post is aimed mostly at the wonderful African American women who post so eloquently in this forum." And that leaves you where...and she went on to further state " But of course, all feedback is welcomed and appreciated."

"Its not about race!" Already dressed issue (see above^)

Its about love, choice, and humankind. Why should anyone care what someone else is doing, as long as they are happy, living a righteous life in God's eyes, and being a good human being. And if you honestly feel that way, then why am I your sounding board for December 22, 2007??

"And it really bothered me, the comment made that "I used to agree with some of those statements until I realized that there are some men in our race that need to be given away"..WOW..this implies you think that black men who date outside their race are somehow no good, or not worthy, or don't deserve the same amt of respect as other black men."

First of all, I don't give a damn about what bothers you. Get it straight. Moving on to your sad interpretations...yet again. No, all this implies is that you are not capable of reading things within context, your interpretation of statements are filled delusional inuendos and full of deep seated issues. Sorry, I am not a therapist. And for the record, I am the PROUD MOTHER OF THREE AFRICAN KINGS, so for your summary of my intent to be true according to sanity, I must hate myself and my children and that is not NO WHERE NEAR BEING TRUE!!

"Stop thinking their choices are a personal attack on black women! Can't everyone just be judged on their character and integrity, and not on who they choose to spend their life with. racism (n.) The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others."

You are in no authority to JUDGE my thinking, thank you very much. And I absolutely love your way of deflecting your issues upon me, but I am here to inform you that I do not grow from personal attacks.

In closing i would like to say that i will never pretend that i kno what its like to be black, nor african...i will never kno the true battles that were fought...I was not there in the days of slavery, or during the civil rights era...but please do not think i don't still feel the pain. I am ashamed of my people, and others who have done such atrocites to our own humankind. But please don't blame me for the hatred of others. I wish to be judged as an individual. Not as a reflection of the past.

Oh, really, You just did, by attempting to discredit and invalidate what I just said.

Now in closing. Every one have a Blessed Christamas and Prosperous New Year

You are my new hero!!!!!!

[Simply_Uno 1]

Salutations,

If your can of worms got open, it was not my doing. They were there before I existed, you are using my statement out of context.

You state that "...although i don't understand it." What is not to understand about my statement, I gave a generalized view, not explicitly categorially of all black women. The original poster asked "what are they really thinking?" and I gave her a short, brief synopsis of possibilities.

You state "Your comment made it seem as tho u think its just on a color basis."

Correction, that is YOUR interpretation of what I said, I can not control your lack of context understanding so don't blame me for your deep seated rooted issues.

"And even more disturbing, u feel that there is fundamentally something better or worse about a woman because of her color."

And again, that is your interpretation, your problem and so far you are still wrong about my intents.

"U cant be so naive as to think that white women choose to love a black man just so there is one less for u!"First of all, before you start assuming you know what deficits I may have, REWIND, and CORRECT YO'SELF. Up unitl I got married, I had an active membership card to the "Minority Womens Rainbow Coalition for Dating INC,"

so THERE HAS NEVER BEEN NEVER A SHORTAGE OF MEN FOR UNO!

" Or that we think we are better or more deserving." Sounds like you have a repressive superiority complex going on, I am not a therapist, nor do I practice one while masterbating. Moving on....

"And why cant a black man make that choice without being judged as someone "not knoing where he came from", or "selling out".

And again, YOU ARE OUT OF CONTEXT AND OUT OF ORDER!

Do u hear how riduculous all this sounds.

DO YOU HEAR HOW RIDICULOUS YOU SOUND...

Its not about u! I never once said it was about me, you turned this on me instead of where it was originally intended.

Its not about color! Well now, yes it is. she stated "This post is aimed mostly at the wonderful African American women who post so eloquently in this forum." And that leaves you where...and she went on to further state " But of course, all feedback is welcomed and appreciated."

"Its not about race!" Already dressed issue (see above^)

Its about love, choice, and humankind. Why should anyone care what someone else is doing, as long as they are happy, living a righteous life in God's eyes, and being a good human being. And if you honestly feel that way, then why am I your sounding board for December 22, 2007??

"And it really bothered me, the comment made that "I used to agree with some of those statements until I realized that there are some men in our race that need to be given away"..WOW..this implies you think that black men who date outside their race are somehow no good, or not worthy, or don't deserve the same amt of respect as other black men."

First of all, I don't give a damn about what bothers you. Get it straight. Moving on to your sad interpretations...yet again. No, all this implies is that you are not capable of reading things within context, your interpretation of statements are filled delusional inuendos and full of deep seated issues. Sorry, I am not a therapist. And for the record, I am the PROUD MOTHER OF THREE AFRICAN KINGS, so for your summary of my intent to be true according to sanity, I must hate myself and my children and that is not NO WHERE NEAR BEING TRUE!!

"Stop thinking their choices are a personal attack on black women! Can't everyone just be judged on their character and integrity, and not on who they choose to spend their life with. racism (n.) The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others."

You are in no authority to JUDGE my thinking, thank you very much. And I absolutely love your way of deflecting your issues upon me, but I am here to inform you that I do not grow from personal attacks.

In closing i would like to say that i will never pretend that i kno what its like to be black, nor african...i will never kno the true battles that were fought...I was not there in the days of slavery, or during the civil rights era...but please do not think i don't still feel the pain. I am ashamed of my people, and others who have done such atrocites to our own humankind. But please don't blame me for the hatred of others. I wish to be judged as an individual. Not as a reflection of the past.

Oh, really, You just did, by attempting to discredit and invalidate what I just said.

Now in closing. Every one have a Blessed Christamas and Prosperous New Year

You are my new hero!!!!!!

God Bless those who have great wisdom, understanding, comprehension and discernment. I am honored.

P.S. You were mine first.

[Divine Mercy 0]

Wow I didn't expect quite this much feedback lol. I'm sorry if this subject brought up some sore issues, that was not the intention.

The reason I addressed it to the African American women in the forum (mostly) is because what would I know about the kinds of things that are said between one AA woman to another? I wanted to hear it from the people who know what it really means to live and love as an African American. I asked because I want to better understand.

The receptionist is just an all around nasty woman. The other day she was wearing a beautiful red silk blouse and I commented that she looked very "Christmasy". I might as well have told her she looked like Satan for the way she reacted. It was then I realized she was Wiccan. Oooooops. It was the day of the office Christmas party, I assumed her outfit was meant to be festive. Bottom line, her opinion amounts to a pile of ant turds in my world.

It does bother me about the other women in the office though. It's as if my own mother is looking down on me. I guess it was that whole "respect your elders" thing that has been drilled into my brain since I took my first breath.

Although, pointing out their age was not meant to target all older people, they do happen to be the only people that have given me a problem outside the white community. I do get the impression, however that the younger generations are more accepting and open. I do see how history is not just in books for those who have lived it.

I am not a black woman. I never will be obviously. I can't know what it means to be. I can't share your suffering and pain. And until I met my husband, it was a non issue. I didn't think much either way about the issue. People are people. I went to school with all races and had friends of all races. Since I met him and fell in love with him I see things differently. Loving someone so intimately, as I do with him, changes everything. I see that there are very few if any black dolls on the shelves at Toys R Us for example. And my ears are tuned in to the white people around me now. Before I would just overlook comments as ignorant, now it hurts.

Strangers, assuming I'm on board with their klan lovin, lily white opinions based on my blonde hair or blue eyes, make the most offensive comments to me... after looking around to make sure no black people are within earshot of course. I used to just look at them like they were crazy. Now I want to either cry or beat the ####### out of them.

I recently was walking down the street with my son when a group of very young African American boys rode their bikes down the street. They were passing an Irish festival that had just started to disburse and some drunken loser began screaming at them to get the f out of his neighborhood etc etc etc. NO WONDER there is so much tension! What are those boys going to grow up thinking? That ONE DISGUSTING DRUNKEN PIG just became the example of what a white man is to at least a dozen African American kids. I hope and pray they each meet a thousand better men to erase that impression.

I know this is a bit long already but please bear with me. When I was a kid I went to an all white school in an all white neighborhood (I went to a very diverse high school though) and I was treated very badly by the other kids. I know this is not uncommon but the teasing and bullying that I endured is NOT the focus of the story. In my mind, boys were rotten. I hated them all. I was nothing. I was just some ugly smelly (accd. to the boys) girl that deserved to be treated like #######. The girls weren't much better. I had a very low opinion of myself at that time.

One day, while shopping with my mother, I might have been about ten yrs. old, a teenage African American boy asked my mom if he could help her with her bags. Mom said yes and we all started to load the trunk. When we were finished mom handed him some money as a thank you and I started to get in the car. The young guy said to me, no no let me get that for you, he opened the door for me and when I was fully in he said have a good day ma'am and shut the door gently. I blushed for weeks! "Ma'am!!!" I was someone! He didn't think i was stupid or smelly or ugly! He was the first black person I ever met. And my ten year old brain interpreted that as, black boys are nice.. white boys are mean. I know NOW that is not the case. There are good and bad people everywhere.

I told this story to my sons to drive the point home that you never know who you represent. You might be among any kind of people and they will say wow those boys are Kathryn's sons, what good boys they are.. those boys belong to that school... what good kids they are. They are not representing themselves alone and they need to keep that in mind. That guy at the supermarket that day probably never thought about me again as soon as my mom's car left the parking lot but I never forgot him. He left an impression on me that lasted all these years. Ok that was off the topic at hand a wee bit.

Also, as for the struggles you have all been through throughout history and still to this day, I wasn't there, I'm not there, I don't know it or feel it as deeply as you do. I feel compassion and even anger over it though. In a Christian sense I do because we're all brothers and sisters. I will admit that I understand getting angry learning about the past. As an Irish Catholic, reading about the horrors inflicted upon my ancestors in Ireland for hundreds of years makes me FURIOUS. So I can't say that if I had been born to African American parents I would be able to swallow the history pill lightly.

The workplace: It is best to keep our lives to ourselves, I agree wholeheartedly. At times good friendships can arise among co workers but as a rule of thumb, you are there to work not to socialize. Thank you for pointing that out.

Besangin, there is already a bit of controversy in the marriage regarding this issue. There have been plenty of people in Nigeria that have told him what "white women are like". Some of it is so ridiculous. I can understand that they would believe certain things because our American movies and such do not represent us very well. Some of it is not so ridiculous. A good amount of the things said were true of many white women I know. There are things about me that I didn't realize were so "white" until confronted with this issue. I'm talking Weird Al's white and nerdy hitting a little too close to home lol. When we associate very little with people outside our own little comfort zones we tend to not see another way to be. I know he sometimes looks at me in a funny way wondering what i'm smoking with the things I say and he chalks it up to a "white girl" issue. When I was pregnant he freaked out if I did the smallest amount of manual labor. I pointed out that Nigerian women work up until they give birth! He said they're stronger than white women. That was so offensive but at the same time.. they are some strong women, I'm constantly impressed by them.

I guess I'll never really know what is on the minds of the ladies at the office and knowing might make life a lot harder. I know what is on the minds of the ignorant turds in my own little white world and that's enough to handle. We've all had our share of rude comments regarding marrying a foreigner. The stinky.. no deodorant comment was not one I had heard before though I was just hoping to better understand these women. If I understood them better, I might be able to see where they are coming from and not be angry about it.

Thank you all for your wonderful comments. I appreciated being able to put the kids to bed and read it all.

The very last thing (I promise) I wanted to address is the comment about a lot of Christians being very racist. Yes it is something that I stressed because when I meet a Christian I expect them to be "Christ-like". Not that we're all not sinners, we are! Maybe I am naive hoping that someone is what they represent themselves to be. I'm not stupid enough to think that there is NO ONE out there who just doesn't "get it". There are plenty. Hypocrisy is a totally different issue all together.

[ose_n_me 0]

Wonderful! I applaude u guys. (unononehigher, Besingin) My post did exactly what i intended it to do! Illustrate differences of opinions, and how crazy things can sound when they are coming from others who have an opposing viewpoint. and how defensive one can get when they don't agree. I thought i layed the groundwork when i said our opinions are our own...and they come from "personal" experiences that no one else has lived but that person.

I also said "I respect ur opinion"...the difference is, u do not respect anyone elses. But thats ok...I admit when i was quoting u, i really wasn't meaning u (unononehigher) personally, but was referring to the "typically african american women" who u speak of in ur post. (since of course u have grown and no longer agree with them..right) U generalized the issue first...i just responded.

I also agree my response is my interpretation of ur words, just as urs is to mine. But I don't feel the need to blast u. If i misinterpretted them, then my bad....all u had to do was explain what u meant. I didnt mean to start a blastfest here...but just as u have been dealing with racist mentality, so have alot of us. You have no idea about my life or my struggles, just as i don't kno urs. It's not a black/white thing. Its just that we have to label everything in our society. And color is the most obvious distinction. You don't have to be a black woman to kno prejudice.. We as women should be standing together in unity, and pride for womanhood..not bickering about sterotypes or trying to analyze the errors of our ways! We really are not so different. We just express ourselves differently.

If all u (and Besangin) got out of my post was negative vibes..then I'm sorry. My intention was to give another viewpoint. The both of u should try not to be so angry. There's room for discussion and debate without getting ugly. We do not have to agree with each other to respect each other.

By the way, although i am no expert...I have a degree in social and behaviorial science, and have studied black history, international relations, african studies, and marriage/family etc. I am currently a social worker. By no means does this qualify me to speak about "the black experience" but with my education and personal experience i feel comfortable sharing my viewpoint. In addition, i am a devote christian who puts God first in my life.

and to respond about my children..they are grown! 21, 20 and 12. I also have many black women in my life, both professionals and personal friends and family who have shed light on these topics and more...and who for the most part DON"T have a problem with interracial marriages. So it truly is one's own opinion..not a black or white one.

I want to say to Divine...i'm sorry to have guided this bus in the wrong direction! LOL But really what i was trying to point out is that everyone has a reason for their opinions...and it should never be seen as a generalization because a certain person, of a certain race, color or age has one that differs from urs. If u want to kno why they have that opinion...ask the person. I think we all kno..not just by evidence of this subject and postings..but from our own experiences that some people are prejudice...i am sure if asked why, each would give u a different reason! There's alot to be said for a person who can accept one's opinion without placing judgement on that person. Thats where thick skins come in handy! All we can do is worry about ourselves and leave the rest up to God.

Anyway...i think we are beating a dead horse here...We need to agree to disagree. Although the anger seemed unnecessary, i still respect everyones opinions. As i stated before:

We are all a product of our environment, or culture/heritage, and our individualism

"DIFFERENT PLACES, DIFFERENT RACES, DIFFERENT FACES! "

God Bless

.

[BESANGIN 0]

Wonderful! I applaude u guys. (unononehigher, Besingin) My post did exactly what i intended it to do! Illustrate differences of opinions, and how crazy things can sound when they are coming from others who have an opposing viewpoint. and how defensive one can get when they don't agree. I thought i layed the groundwork when i said our opinions are our own...and they come from "personal" experiences that no one else has lived but that person.

I also said "I respect ur opinion"...the difference is, u do not respect anyone elses. But thats ok...I admit when i was quoting u, i really wasn't meaning u (unononehigher) personally, but was referring to the "typically african american women" who u speak of in ur post. (since of course u have grown and no longer agree with them..right) U generalized the issue first...i just responded.

I also agree my response is my interpretation of ur words, just as urs is to mine. But I don't feel the need to blast u. If i misinterpretted them, then my bad....all u had to do was explain what u meant. I didnt mean to start a blastfest here...but just as u have been dealing with racist mentality, so have alot of us. You have no idea about my life or my struggles, just as i don't kno urs. It's not a black/white thing. Its just that we have to label everything in our society. And color is the most obvious distinction. You don't have to be a black woman to kno prejudice.. We as women should be standing together in unity, and pride for womanhood..not bickering about sterotypes or trying to analyze the errors of our ways! We really are not so different. We just express ourselves differently.

If all u (and Besangin) got out of my post was negative vibes..then I'm sorry. My intention was to give another viewpoint. The both of u should try not to be so angry. There's room for discussion and debate without getting ugly. We do not have to agree with each other to respect each other.

By the way, although i am no expert...I have a degree in social and behaviorial science, and have studied black history, international relations, african studies, and marriage/family etc. I am currently a social worker. By no means does this qualify me to speak about "the black experience" but with my education and personal experience i feel comfortable sharing my viewpoint. In addition, i am a devote christian who puts God first in my life.

and to respond about my children..they are grown! 21, 20 and 12. I also have many black women in my life, both professionals and personal friends and family who have shed light on these topics and more...and who for the most part DON"T have a problem with interracial marriages. So it truly is one's own opinion..not a black or white one.

I want to say to Divine...i'm sorry to have guided this bus in the wrong direction! LOL But really what i was trying to point out is that everyone has a reason for their opinions...and it should never be seen as a generalization because a certain person, of a certain race, color or age has one that differs from urs. If u want to kno why they have that opinion...ask the person. I think we all kno..not just by evidence of this subject and postings..but from our own experiences that some people are prejudice...i am sure if asked why, each would give u a different reason! There's alot to be said for a person who can accept one's opinion without placing judgement on that person. Thats where thick skins come in handy! All we can do is worry about ourselves and leave the rest up to God.

Anyway...i think we are beating a dead horse here...We need to agree to disagree. Although the anger seemed unnecessary, i still respect everyones opinions. As i stated before:

We are all a product of our environment, or culture/heritage, and our individualism

"DIFFERENT PLACES, DIFFERENT RACES, DIFFERENT FACES! "

God Bless

.

I have several problems even now with what you are trying to say. You feel that the anger was unnecessary. Again it goes back to if you are not a black woman how can you not get angry over your words? I would have felt totally different if it were worded in a tone of just an opinion, but you were high on your horse in a matter of fact way. The only thing that you proved with that post is that you don't have a clue, and not trying to get one. You also did not end in I really want to understand that can someone explain to me? As far as your eduicational background when it comes to "black history", it may get you all warm and cozy that you learned something about our culture it does SHIOT for us because they don't give a true account of black history in the schools, and frankly my dear you can have a PHd in African American studies you will NEVER be able know the real experience of being a black woman in a white man's world. So you have NO credibility to speak on the thoughts of a black woman!!!You can transplant your self in the culture and in the community, and if and when you get tired of the comments and the blatant racism you can walk away I however cannot shed my skin nor should I be made to feel like I need to in order to be considered a Madam like you and not GAL! You and I walk in a store, because of your blonde hair and skin you will already get better service than me. I will automatically be deemed the shoplifter on welfare using Ebonics.

What is futher frustrating is that the tone of your response comes across as an attempt to show that you can stand your ground. You can stand your ground and not be any closer to rectifying the problem and that is understanding why your words were so offensive, and how you were NOT the authority to make them. Even though I am greatly offended by your comments before and now I am still willing to talk to you to give you a black woman's point of view. I hope that you could discern that my comment about your children was NOT an insult. That I had a real concern for all who have the added pressures that come with being biracial. Now you can fire back at me if you want, I'm done on this because sometimes for some they just don't get it. Thus the misconceptions continue!

Divine Mercy- The only issue I can take with what you said is that you hear the comments about black people from other white people and you say that you want to do whatever. When you do nothing, in their eyes you agree with them. So check their A$$ES! After all they are talking about your husband and child, and if more did that eventually they can only make their comments in the secracy of their homes because they will know that other people got tired of hearing that BULLSHIOT or don't subscribe to bigotry!!!!!!

Edited December 24, 2007 by BESANGIN

[Simply_Uno 1]

First of all, No applause is needed. Nothing that I do or say is meant for mans approval or accolades.

The only thing your post did was illustrate how crazy "You appear to be" not others, except for those that subscribe to your mind set.

And yes, you laid "the groundwork", but you poured the wrong foundation, even now your "foundation" is...shakey. Oh, and I respect your opinion, its just that you have no moral high ground to stand upon in my world or the world of ANY BLACK WOMAN. I dont care how many black men you date or how many biracial babies you give birth to or howm many times you say "my bad". That even applies to your daughter, if you have one and she appears more ethnic than european. You will never understand what she will pass through, you can hold her hand, and console her, but never UNDERSTAND the plight and misjustices perpetrated upon a black woman. So don't fool yourself and think that you can.

All of the degrees, international studies, and marriage/family etc. in the WORLD will not quantify or qualify you as an expert on any field in regards to minority communication, socialization or ostracization. So don't let your so-called worldly and academia experiences give you a false sense of security in sharing your view point in a "black womans" world or mind.

Now, don't go misinterpreting that as my saying don't share, by all means do, that puts more meat on the platter, just don't get it twisted in thinking that you can attempt to discredit or invalidate that which you have no intricate knowledge. Which is what you did.

As for the black women you have in your life both professionally and personally, do you go around telling them their experiences are fraudulent or ridiculous because "with my education and personal experience i feel comfortable sharing my viewpoint. In addition, i am a devote christian who puts God first in my life."

Now, where is the respect in statements such as:

"U have opened up a can of worms now!" = instigation

"And i understand that opinions are formed in several ways" = first correct statement you made

"i must respect ur opinion, although i don't understand it." = ignorance

"U cant be so naive as to think that white women choose to love a black man just so there is one less for u!" = demeaning, superiority complex coupled with arrogance

"Do u hear how riduculous all this sounds" = belittling and invalidation

"Its not about u!" = deflection, hostility, persecution

"But please don't blame me for the hatred of others. I wish to be judged as an individual. Not as a reflection of the past." = self vindication

"And it really bothered me, the comment made that" = WHO GIVES A DAMN!!! SO FALL OF YOUR SOAP BOX.

"I used to agree with some of those statements until I realized that there are some men in our race that need to be given away"..=Severe misqoute followed by more ignorant rantings causing others to follow your lead.

The bible teaches "beware of fales teachers, they come to kill and destroy!"

And yes, I did use the word "typical" not specifically, or majority, or all, neither did I say every black woman.

So no, You insighted the specifications of all black women, not I.

And just as your interpretation was off and still is off, so is your 1/2 a$$ apology.

And never once did I say I know your life experiences, you put you into this scenario.(and then attempted to drag me along with you, hold up, "move _ _ _ CH, get out the way!"

The O.P. asked questions about what were the black women thinking and as I stated earlier, I gave her some possible synopsis'.

You kicked it into third gear because you honestly don't know, and most of time anything we don't know, scares us or the truth hurts, take your pick.

And the "christian" thing to do would be to learn to be a christian at heart, and not a christian at mouth.

P.S. You give yourself too much credit girl, take note,

You don't have enough power in this life time to make UNO angry. But what you do have is a need to be truly enlightened and humbled. Some of out here can help you with one of the needed aforementioned attributes. The rest is up to you.

Peace to all,

no hurt, no harm, and no foul

[Simply_Uno 1]

First of all, No applause is needed. Nothing that I do or say is meant for mans approval or accolades.

The only thing your post did was illustrate how crazy "You appear to be" not others, except for those that subscribe to your mind set.

You said I should have explained myself. Everything I said was self explanatory, if you were not in a hurry to find a self serving cause, and thoroughly read what I wrote in its full context, you would not have mislead yourself or others.

And yes, you laid "the groundwork", but you poured the wrong foundation, even now your "foundation" is...shakey. Oh, and I respect your opinion, its just that you have no moral high ground to stand upon in my world or the world of ANY BLACK WOMAN. I dont care how many black men you date or how many biracial babies you give birth to or how many times you say "my bad". That even applies to your daughter, if you have one and she appears more ethnic than european. You will never understand what she will pass through, you can hold her hand, and console her, but never UNDERSTAND the plight and misjustices perpetrated upon a black woman. So don't fool yourself and think that you can.

All of the degrees, international studies, and marriage/family etc. in the WORLD will not quantify or qualify you as an expert on any field in regards to minority communication, socialization or ostracization. So don't let your so-called worldly and academia experiences give you a false sense of security in sharing your view point in a "black womans" world or mind.

Now, don't go misinterpreting that as my saying don't share, by all means do, that puts more meat on the platter, just don't get it twisted in thinking that you can attempt to discredit or invalidate that which you have no intricate knowledge. Which is what you did.

As for the black women you have in your life both professionally and personally, do you go around telling them their experiences are fraudulent or ridiculous because "with my education and personal experience i feel comfortable sharing my viewpoint. In addition, i am a devote christian who puts God first in my life."

Now, where is the respect in statements such as:

"U have opened up a can of worms now!" = instigation

"And i understand that opinions are formed in several ways" = first correct statement you made

"i must respect ur opinion, although i don't understand it." = ignorance

"U cant be so naive as to think that white women choose to love a black man just so there is one less for u!" = demeaning, superiority complex coupled with arrogance

"Do u hear how riduculous all this sounds" = belittling and invalidation

"Its not about u!" = deflection, hostility, persecution

"But please don't blame me for the hatred of others. I wish to be judged as an individual. Not as a reflection of the past." = self vindication

"And it really bothered me, the comment made that" = WHO GIVES A DAMN!!! SO FALL OF YOUR SOAP BOX.

"I used to agree with some of those statements until I realized that there are some men in our race that need to be given away"..=Severe misqoute followed by more ignorant rantings causing others to follow your lead.

The bible teaches "beware of fales teachers, they come to kill and destroy!"

And yes, I did use the word "typical" not specifically, or majority, or all, neither did I say every black woman.

So no, You insighted the specifications of all black women, not I.

And just as your interpretation was off and still is off, so is your 1/2 a$$ apology.

And never once did I say I know your life experiences, you put you into this scenario.(and then attempted to drag me along with you), hold up, "move _ _ _ CH, get out the way!"

The O.P. asked questions about what were the black women thinking and as I stated earlier, I gave her some possible synopsis'.

You kicked it into third gear because you honestly don't know, and most of time anything we don't know, scares us or the truth hurts, take your pick.

And the "christian" thing to do would be to learn to be a christian at heart, and not a christian at mouth.

P.S. You give yourself too much credit girl, take note:

You don't have enough power to make UNO angry.

But what you do have is a need to be truly enlightened and humbled. Some one out here can help you with one of the needed aforementioned attributes. The rest is up to you.

Peace to all,

no hurt, no harm, and no foul

To DivineMercy- If anything that I said offended you, charge it to my head and not my heart. I thought I went through your post step by step and answered each of your questions whole heartedly, truthfully, and from a clearmind set.

[HBO 0]

MERRY, MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL :dance: :dance:

Besangin and Uno - Now I have to get me another bottle of wine. Anyone for some Moscato D'Asti?

Nothing like a tall glass of sparkling wine and Besangin post, now we must add Uno.

You Go Girls!!!!

Thank you

[ose_n_me 0]

Ladies, Ladies! I get it! And i think the entire forum who's read all these posts gets it too! We are not black, we never will be black, therefore we will never walk in your shoes. Hasnt that been stated over and over again! Its obvious this subject is an important one, but why does it keep going and going. I mean really now. Havent we all made our points, explained our opinions, and defended our words. For Gods sake lets move on! Just as u will not back down from ur views, neither will i back down from mine...So whats the point of u continuing to chew up and spit out everything i say. I am not, and will never be afraid to speak my mind no matter how many angry women yell and lash out at me.

None of my words has intended to be a personal attack on either of u. If u felt attacked I'm sorry. I have apologized for any misinterpretations. I have no need to talk further about this with either of u because the anger u exhibit is not conducive to a conversation that will get any further than it already has. And honestly i really don't feel there's much else to say here. We have different views. period.

And to all the people who have sent me private messages...i appreciate your comments. I don't blame any of u for not wanting to post them publicly. Its a shame this has turned into a thread where people don't feel comfortable sharing their viewpoints without fearing they will get their head bit off. I really never intended it to be like this.

I won't comment on this thread anymore unless someone has something new to talk about, or the anger subsides, and we can talk like mature adults respecting each others differences instead of focusing negatively on them.

Hope everyone has a blessed holiday.