Dream Turns Nightmare: Milwaukee Police Officer to Be Deported

[HAL 9000 96]

Actually, I believe many people do infact make choices about laws they don't like to follow, speed limit anyone?

Apples .. Oranges.

And when caught ... welcome to the CJ System

Once convicted ... not only does the local Gov't get a piece out of you ... so does your insurance company.

Why is the comparison so far off?

Its a law, its broken, and there are consequences. People continue to choose to break the law, however. AND, they risk killing others in the process. Matter of fact, comparing the risks involved with speeding with illegal immigration, more people per capita are put at physical and financia risk of harm than the US Population suffers from illegals.

Again ... apples/ oranges...

A speeding ticket is not an invasion of a foreign country ... does not involve working illegally .... identity fraud/theft .... etc.

Not in all cases, as not in all cases do speeders kill, but they do so more so per capita than illegals steal IDs.

You can fix (hard, but yes) ID theft. You can't bring back the dead. Maybe that's the apple and the orange.

Are both crimes opposite in correctness? No. Both wrong.

[natty bumppo 297]

Actually, I believe many people do infact make choices about laws they don't like to follow, speed limit anyone?

Apples .. Oranges.

And when caught ... welcome to the CJ System

Once convicted ... not only does the local Gov't get a piece out of you ... so does your insurance company.

Why is the comparison so far off?

Its a law, its broken, and there are consequences. People continue to choose to break the law, however. AND, they risk killing others in the process. Matter of fact, comparing the risks involved with speeding with illegal immigration, more people per capita are put at physical and financia risk of harm than the US Population suffers from illegals.

Again ... apples/ oranges...

A speeding ticket is not an invasion of a foreign country ... does not involve working illegally .... identity fraud/theft .... etc.

Not in all cases, as not in all cases do speeders kill, but they do so more so per capita than illegals steal IDs.

You can fix (hard, but yes) ID theft. You can't bring back the dead. Maybe that's the apple and the orange.

Are both crimes opposite in correctness? No. Both wrong.

Please post links to support the number of illegals who steal IDs.

[Peikko 1,575]

not everyone can pick and choose what laws they want to follow and what ones they dont

My point was a direct response to this statement. In fact, everyone gets to choose which laws they wish to follow and which they don't. Most of the time, most people choose to obey almost all laws. However, speeding happens to be an area where many people appear to believe the law either doesn't apply to them, or they feel benefits of breaking the law are worth the risk of getting caught breaking it.

Perhaps those shouting 'apples and oranges' are those that don't think breaking the speed limit matters?

[vbtbmrt 2]

i wasnt speeding i was qualifing. yes . i agree but apples and oranges but to make a choice that infact does harm more people then it does good to be a police officer and to up hold the laws and in fact you know is a lie and pretend your someone your not i guess isnt really nothing new look at all our elected officals right to the president who believes he is above all the laws and spending money like it grow on trees and for allowing all this to happen

did any one see the other day people attacking border patrol with rock and bricks for not allowing them to cross the border and border patrol fired rubber bullet back and now mexico goverment is out raged because we should just let them through rocks and brick and end up killing someone and do nothing

[natty bumppo 297]

not everyone can pick and choose what laws they want to follow and what ones they dont

My point was a direct response to this statement. In fact, everyone gets to choose which laws they wish to follow and which they don't. Most of the time, most people choose to obey almost all laws. However, speeding happens to be an area where many people appear to believe the law either doesn't apply to them, or they feel benefits of breaking the law are worth the risk of getting caught breaking it.

Perhaps those shouting 'apples and oranges' are those that don't think breaking the speed limit matters?

Actually ... I have zero sympathy for those who blow past me ... then 5 miles later are on the side of the road ... with company. Some days I want to wave as I drive past the "especially obnoxious one" ... and well .. maybe you've seen the look on the persons face as you drive by too ... and I dont wish to make it worse for them.

My thought is ... you asked for it ... so deal ... zero sympathy from me.

[diesel1 0]

An ex-marine I work with was on base when the INS showed up - guess one of the guys was illegal - well anyway, apparently they made him a citizen right there, though I had a hard time believing this, it was about 15 years ago - at any rate, he was at least made a PR at that point.

Not necessarily agreeing with it, but....

He didn't use a dead cousin's ID, though.

Here is another story of an illegal marine being given permanent residency and citizenship.... This was possible before 9/11, why not now?? http://www.shusterman.com/photo6.html

Marine Sergeant Danny Lightfoot and his attorney Carl Shusterman address a press conference immediately after an Immigration Judge granted permanent residence to Sgt. Lightfoot.

Sgt. Lightfoot joined the U.S. Marine Corps as a teenager. Although Lightfoot was attending school in Miami, his place of birth was in the Bahamas. A recruiter persuaded him to list his country of birth as the U.S. in order to join the Marines. His story began to unravel eleven years later when Lightfoot, stationed in Okinawa, was ordered to return to the U.S. with his wife and three sons. Unable to secure U.S. Passports for himself and his family, Lightfoot made a full confession to his superiors.

The Marine Corps contacted Congressman Jerry Lewis (R-CA) who sent Lightfoot to Attorney Carl Shusterman, a former INS Trial Attorney, for legal advice. Shusterman obtained the permission of his client and the Marine Corps to turn Lightfoot over to the Immigration Service.

Both INS and an Immigration Judge agreed to allow Lightfoot to remain in the U.S. because of a military record that included a Navy achievement medal, three good conduct medals, two certificates of commendation, seven letters of appreciation and a meritorious unit commendation.

A few months later, the INS expedited Sergeant Lightfoot's application for U.S. citizenship.

[Craneman 2]

He did not steal anothers Identity.

Military service has always been aclerated path to citizenship.

He was not in a possition of enforcing the law while breaking it himself.

An ex-marine I work with was on base when the INS showed up - guess one of the guys was illegal - well anyway, apparently they made him a citizen right there, though I had a hard time believing this, it was about 15 years ago - at any rate, he was at least made a PR at that point.

Not necessarily agreeing with it, but....

He didn't use a dead cousin's ID, though.

Here is another story of an illegal marine being given permanent residency and citizenship.... This was possible before 9/11, why not now?? http://www.shusterman.com/photo6.html

Marine Sergeant Danny Lightfoot and his attorney Carl Shusterman address a press conference immediately after an Immigration Judge granted permanent residence to Sgt. Lightfoot.

Sgt. Lightfoot joined the U.S. Marine Corps as a teenager. Although Lightfoot was attending school in Miami, his place of birth was in the Bahamas. A recruiter persuaded him to list his country of birth as the U.S. in order to join the Marines. His story began to unravel eleven years later when Lightfoot, stationed in Okinawa, was ordered to return to the U.S. with his wife and three sons. Unable to secure U.S. Passports for himself and his family, Lightfoot made a full confession to his superiors.

The Marine Corps contacted Congressman Jerry Lewis (R-CA) who sent Lightfoot to Attorney Carl Shusterman, a former INS Trial Attorney, for legal advice. Shusterman obtained the permission of his client and the Marine Corps to turn Lightfoot over to the Immigration Service.

Both INS and an Immigration Judge agreed to allow Lightfoot to remain in the U.S. because of a military record that included a Navy achievement medal, three good conduct medals, two certificates of commendation, seven letters of appreciation and a meritorious unit commendation.

A few months later, the INS expedited Sergeant Lightfoot's application for U.S. citizenship.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

An ex-marine I work with was on base when the INS showed up - guess one of the guys was illegal - well anyway, apparently they made him a citizen right there, though I had a hard time believing this, it was about 15 years ago - at any rate, he was at least made a PR at that point.

Not necessarily agreeing with it, but....

He didn't use a dead cousin's ID, though.

Here is another story of an illegal marine being given permanent residency and citizenship.... This was possible before 9/11, why not now?? http://www.shusterman.com/photo6.html

Marine Sergeant Danny Lightfoot and his attorney Carl Shusterman address a press conference immediately after an Immigration Judge granted permanent residence to Sgt. Lightfoot.

Sgt. Lightfoot joined the U.S. Marine Corps as a teenager. Although Lightfoot was attending school in Miami, his place of birth was in the Bahamas. A recruiter persuaded him to list his country of birth as the U.S. in order to join the Marines. His story began to unravel eleven years later when Lightfoot, stationed in Okinawa, was ordered to return to the U.S. with his wife and three sons. Unable to secure U.S. Passports for himself and his family, Lightfoot made a full confession to his superiors.

The Marine Corps contacted Congressman Jerry Lewis (R-CA) who sent Lightfoot to Attorney Carl Shusterman, a former INS Trial Attorney, for legal advice. Shusterman obtained the permission of his client and the Marine Corps to turn Lightfoot over to the Immigration Service.

Both INS and an Immigration Judge agreed to allow Lightfoot to remain in the U.S. because of a military record that included a Navy achievement medal, three good conduct medals, two certificates of commendation, seven letters of appreciation and a meritorious unit commendation.

A few months later, the INS expedited Sergeant Lightfoot's application for U.S. citizenship.

Miltary service is legally one way to "blow thru" to US citizenship. There's a loyalty and self-sacrifice quotient involved.

[HAL 9000 96]

Actually, I believe many people do infact make choices about laws they don't like to follow, speed limit anyone?

Apples .. Oranges.

And when caught ... welcome to the CJ System

Once convicted ... not only does the local Gov't get a piece out of you ... so does your insurance company.

Why is the comparison so far off?

Its a law, its broken, and there are consequences. People continue to choose to break the law, however. AND, they risk killing others in the process. Matter of fact, comparing the risks involved with speeding with illegal immigration, more people per capita are put at physical and financia risk of harm than the US Population suffers from illegals.

Again ... apples/ oranges...

A speeding ticket is not an invasion of a foreign country ... does not involve working illegally .... identity fraud/theft .... etc.

Not in all cases, as not in all cases do speeders kill, but they do so more so per capita than illegals steal IDs.

You can fix (hard, but yes) ID theft. You can't bring back the dead. Maybe that's the apple and the orange.

Are both crimes opposite in correctness? No. Both wrong.

Please post links to support the number of illegals who steal IDs.

I think a more correct representation of the information you seek involves comparing what we're discussing and not bolding part of the statement above. I highlight in italics that for your convenience above also.

Want a link with actual numbers? Here's a couple from NHTSA for overall traffic-related fatalities, where speed and alcochol are obviously not the unique feature but given most folks experiences', one that is a huge determinant of such tragic events. Somehow, I doubt that illegals come close to creating a similar scenario since nobody really knows how many there are in the USA to begin with, starting perhaps at 12 million+, and yet the ID theft that negatively impacts innocent Americans is still nothing compared to actual driving conditions in the country. Dead Americans or recycled SSNs somehow do not create the same impact that John Doe from Smith City suffers from when a reckless driver that also chose not to obey a law killed Mr. Doe's wife in traffic. But the relativity of things can be left to the obvious interpretations many will conclude on their own as they should in a society that has the potential, like any other, to think for itself.

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/810870.PDF

[just relating to driving while intoxicated during the Holidays!]

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/809890.PDF

[speeding during Holiday periods]

[HAL 9000 96]

He did not steal anothers Identity.

Military service has always been aclerated path to citizenship.

He was not in a possition of enforcing the law while breaking it himself.

An ex-marine I work with was on base when the INS showed up - guess one of the guys was illegal - well anyway, apparently they made him a citizen right there, though I had a hard time believing this, it was about 15 years ago - at any rate, he was at least made a PR at that point.

Not necessarily agreeing with it, but....

He didn't use a dead cousin's ID, though.

Here is another story of an illegal marine being given permanent residency and citizenship.... This was possible before 9/11, why not now?? http://www.shusterman.com/photo6.html

Marine Sergeant Danny Lightfoot and his attorney Carl Shusterman address a press conference immediately after an Immigration Judge granted permanent residence to Sgt. Lightfoot.

Sgt. Lightfoot joined the U.S. Marine Corps as a teenager. Although Lightfoot was attending school in Miami, his place of birth was in the Bahamas. A recruiter persuaded him to list his country of birth as the U.S. in order to join the Marines. His story began to unravel eleven years later when Lightfoot, stationed in Okinawa, was ordered to return to the U.S. with his wife and three sons. Unable to secure U.S. Passports for himself and his family, Lightfoot made a full confession to his superiors.

The Marine Corps contacted Congressman Jerry Lewis (R-CA) who sent Lightfoot to Attorney Carl Shusterman, a former INS Trial Attorney, for legal advice. Shusterman obtained the permission of his client and the Marine Corps to turn Lightfoot over to the Immigration Service.

Both INS and an Immigration Judge agreed to allow Lightfoot to remain in the U.S. because of a military record that included a Navy achievement medal, three good conduct medals, two certificates of commendation, seven letters of appreciation and a meritorious unit commendation.

A few months later, the INS expedited Sergeant Lightfoot's application for U.S. citizenship.

Military service enforces the interests of one nation. In certain cases, even its laws.

Whom should be punished is the recruiter, according to the story, but it may be too late. Even though a birth in the US is not mandatory for enlistment. There is more amiss here and it should be stated so for better and correct understanding.

And, in this case, it would be highly inconsistent with the policeman's case. Maybe if the cop had enlisted as a soldier or marine he'd be ok then.

All I know is the guy is in Monterrey at this time celebrating Christmas with relatives.

[diesel1 0]

He did not steal anothers Identity.

Military service has always been aclerated path to citizenship.

He was not in a possition of enforcing the law while breaking it himself.

The story is somewhat similar, though the policeman's offense involves identity theft and is a more serious.

This illegal alien lied to his recruiter that he was born in the US and that he was a US Citizen. Once in the Marine Corps he had access to sensitive DOD information, etc. How he obtained a SS# and got his security clearance is beyond me.

The article is NOT about naturalizing the "fast path way" through the military. It's about an ILLEGAL ALIEN obtaining PERMANENT RESIDENCY through service in the US Armed Forces.

Edited December 25, 2007 by diesel1

[NavarreMan 10]

He did not steal anothers Identity.

Military service has always been aclerated path to citizenship.

He was not in a possition of enforcing the law while breaking it himself.

The story is somewhat similar, though the policeman's offense involves identity theft and is a more serious.

This illegal alien lied to his recruiter that he was born in the US and that he was a US Citizen. Once in the Marine Corps he had access to sensitive DOD information, etc. How he obtained a SS# and got his security clearance is beyond me.

The article is NOT about naturalizing the "fast path way" through the military. It's about an ILLEGAL ALIEN obtaining PERMANENT RESIDENCY through service in the US Armed Forces.

1. The story does not say he lied to the recruiter. It says the recruiter instructed him to lie on his enlistment forms.

2. What sensitive DoD information?

3. What security clearance?

4. I question where he came up with a SSN also but what really is really curious is how he got past the minimal background check they do on you when you join the military.

5. There is no mention of how he happened to be in the US when he enlisted, only that he was in school in Miami. The omission of this information may play heavily into this case. Apparently he only falsified his birth location, and that may have appeared legit to him if he was instructed to do so. There are no facts given as to his being here legally or otherwise.

6. He did not use another's ID to falsify his enlistment.

7. You do not have to be born in the US or be a US citizen to serve in our armed forces.

8. There is no indication that this lad was an illegal alien, only that his place of birth was in the Bahama's and his recruiter instructed him to claim the US as his birth place.

IMO, from the information given these cases have little in common with each other.

[natty bumppo 297]

Actually, I believe many people do infact make choices about laws they don't like to follow, speed limit anyone?

Apples .. Oranges.

And when caught ... welcome to the CJ System

Once convicted ... not only does the local Gov't get a piece out of you ... so does your insurance company.

Why is the comparison so far off?

Its a law, its broken, and there are consequences. People continue to choose to break the law, however. AND, they risk killing others in the process. Matter of fact, comparing the risks involved with speeding with illegal immigration, more people per capita are put at physical and financia risk of harm than the US Population suffers from illegals.

Again ... apples/ oranges...

A speeding ticket is not an invasion of a foreign country ... does not involve working illegally .... identity fraud/theft .... etc.

Not in all cases, as not in all cases do speeders kill, but they do so more so per capita than illegals steal IDs.

You can fix (hard, but yes) ID theft. You can't bring back the dead. Maybe that's the apple and the orange.

Are both crimes opposite in correctness? No. Both wrong.

Please post links to support the number of illegals who steal IDs.

I think a more correct representation of the information you seek involves comparing what we're discussing and not bolding part of the statement above. I highlight in italics that for your convenience above also.

Want a link with actual numbers? Here's a couple from NHTSA for overall traffic-related fatalities, where speed and alcochol are obviously not the unique feature but given most folks experiences', one that is a huge determinant of such tragic events. Somehow, I doubt that illegals come close to creating a similar scenario since nobody really knows how many there are in the USA to begin with, starting perhaps at 12 million+, and yet the ID theft that negatively impacts innocent Americans is still nothing compared to actual driving conditions in the country. Dead Americans or recycled SSNs somehow do not create the same impact that John Doe from Smith City suffers from when a reckless driver that also chose not to obey a law killed Mr. Doe's wife in traffic. But the relativity of things can be left to the obvious interpretations many will conclude on their own as they should in a society that has the potential, like any other, to think for itself.

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/810870.PDF

[just relating to driving while intoxicated during the Holidays!]

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/809890.PDF

[speeding during Holiday periods]

I think I can ... and have read the entire statement.

It would be nice to actually see the data sources to validate the entire statement. NHTSA is one source for working towards understanding traffic accidents, which has what to do with illegal aliens?

The part dealing with illegal aliens and ID theft still needs to be referenced. With this piece of information missing, it becomes a little difficult to compare something that has nothing to do with illegal aliens to the unknown per capita quantity of illegal aliens committing ID theft.