Dream Turns Nightmare: Milwaukee Police Officer to Be Deported

[HAL 9000 96]

This case is actually correct. Whether or not a permanent ban would be justified in light of years of public service... is not up to any of us, but rather in an Immigration Court case. I am convinced he could have come clean previously and avoided even having to move temporarily to MX with a chance he could have taken a police job at a later point. No point in fighting circumstance though, since none of us here are illegals. He had to have done what was right, not necessarily morally sound since morality is not the issue- but legality is everything at hand.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

And spare me that bullshite question. You don't think it's bullshite? Let me demonstrate: Under what circumstances would you find it excusable that I move into your home w/o asking your permission?

It's only a BS question if you look at the application of our immigration laws in black and white, or absolutes, which proves what I'm talking about.

It's not black-and-white. There's a judicial process in place that covers all shades of gray.

Oye...Reinhard...seriously try to follow what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the ATTITUDE that the application of our immigration laws are above reproach. That attitude is a fascist viewpoint of law.

Try to understand that what people are saying, Steve. Nobody wants an immigration GESTAPO running across the US. What people do want is the government enforcing the immigration laws that are on the books through our enforcement and judicial institutions. Everyone knows that mitigating factors will be considered in each case. This is what you simply refuse to see.

In the court of public opinion (or at least the one here on VJ)...if that were only the case.

Cases are handled in a court of law ... not public opinion.

Right. They are. And every last one of them that was discussed here on VJ had been decided by a court of law already. The illegal alien has in all those cases been afforded due process. I do not find it surprising that a majority agrees with the decisions handed down by the courts. It's not like there's a lynch mob out here wanting to abandon our laws and take justice into our own hands. The latter is a goal, in fact, that those in opposition to the court decisions recently discussed here seem to have in mind.

[NavarreMan 10]

.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

I'd say number 12 sums it up nicely.

That's the problem here Steve, I am not a Fascist regime. None of us are. Our government is not kicking the illegals back across the border by the thousands dressed in jack-booted uniforms. The police abuses refered to are more likely to be instances of beatings with rubber hoses and the like in the name of upholding the law. The Kent State massacre could easily be described as a fascist action. This is not the case here. This man admitted to breaking the law, he was not framed or falsely accused. The law dictates that certain actions can and will likely be enacted in this case. What is the problem with this? Same thing happened with Zapeta. He got caught because he gambled with the law. It makes no difference that he was an honest and hard working person. He broke the law and got caught. His contributions and character can certainly be considered during the punishment phase but he is unquestionably gulity.

[NavarreMan 10]

You've got to be kidding....since when do police have limitless power? They have to go through so much ####### just to arrest someone to make sure they aren't breaking any civil liberties. It seems like you are more interested in directing attacks or bashing people's beliefs than talking about the immigration issue.

Although the word, fascism, carries a negative connotation, the use of the word in an attempt to define a rigid view that the application of our immigration laws are above reproach, particularly when the basic reasoning of that argument is 'because it's the law', is appropriately accurate. A law doesn't equal justice and certainly not all applications of laws, civil or criminal are just. We can argue over whether each case is just or not, but to simply state that a broken law deserves whatever punishment assigned to it is a fascist view of law.

I have certainly not said what you are alluding to here. Conviction and punishment are separate phases of our legal system. The argument was that since he was such a good guy and worked so hard to be a police officer then his actions of breaking the law should be overlooked and ignored.

Application of our laws are in no way above reproach. They can be changed from city to city, county to county and state to state. They are moldable and customizable to fit any locality and most any situation. What seems to be happening is a disregard for the laws enacted IAW our Constitution and any attempt to enforce these laws viewed as a violation of civil rights.

What if time... a man has been a priest for many years and a pillar of his community. He has helped countless couples start meaniful marriages and christened more babies than there are little liver pills etc, etc... his congregation loves and admires this man and eagerly attends his sermons every Sunday. He is a real class act. But he has been stealing church funds for years to build a stock porfolio for a comfortable retirement. He hasn't really hurt anyone but has for years professed the evils of stealing to his flock. He gets caught. Do you just forgive him for his theft? Do you just let him keep the money? What is the right thing to do? Do you throw the book at him and pronounce the maximum penalty? Of course not. You give him his day in court, probably find him guilty, and pronouce sentencing IAW established guidelines while accounting for all mitigating circumstances. This is hardly fascist. In the case of our police officer I would think that a deportation is not as severe a penalty as could be levied against a man who has so severely disregarded our laws and public trust. As I understand it his actions are criminal and he could easily face prison time if they wanted to go that route. And this is not fascism.

Enforcement of the law is not fascism, abuse of the law is during enforcement is. But that is my take on it and you are welcome to disagree if you see fit, but I would appreciate it if you would refrain from labeling me a fascist because I hold the view that at a minimum our laws should be enforced and yes, respected by those who seek the protection of our constitution.

[mawilson 2,133]

Let me demonstrate: Under what circumstances would you find it excusable that I move into your home w/o asking your permission?

I can think of a few.

[natty bumppo 297]

Let me demonstrate: Under what circumstances would you find it excusable that I move into your home w/o asking your permission?

I can think of a few.

Please share ....

[mawilson 2,133]

Let me demonstrate: Under what circumstances would you find it excusable that I move into your home w/o asking your permission?

I can think of a few.

Please share ....

If someone's life was threatened and they had to hide in the house to avoid getting killed.

As much as I hate people, I still wouldn't send a person out to die.

[vbtbmrt 2]

yes there was due process on this case. but how many more people are out there doing the same thing just to avoid obeying the law. i dont have a problem with people wanting to come and work there is all kinds of guess worker visa's avalible. but for people to just thumb there nose at the law for some one thats suppose to up hold the law. is totaly wrong there are so many issues whith illigal immigration if you want to come live and work illigal fine no problem but dont give the americans the attitude we dont have to obey your laws

[natty bumppo 297]

Let me demonstrate: Under what circumstances would you find it excusable that I move into your home w/o asking your permission?

I can think of a few.

Please share ....

If someone's life was threatened and they had to hide in the house to avoid getting killed.

As much as I hate people, I still wouldn't send a person out to die.

The question was ... move into your home.

Curious ... is your comment ... B&E to hide until the moment passed? (Remember ... the example was ... no permission given for entry)

In close pursuit ... needing an immediate place to hide (silent entry of course because the house is kept unlocked) ... wonder what would be the odds, the home would be surrounded by yellow tape within the near future.

Will the person take up residense ... to stay ... and not call LE to help ... so he could leave after the threat?

[HAL 9000 96]

Let me demonstrate: Under what circumstances would you find it excusable that I move into your home w/o asking your permission?

I can think of a few.

Please share ....

If someone's life was threatened and they had to hide in the house to avoid getting killed.

As much as I hate people, I still wouldn't send a person out to die.

Believe it or not, some come illegally to the US to avoid getting killed. Sometimes political asylum cases take a little too long to process at US Embassies abroad. In that case, your example is logic for those avoiding death at home by migrating illegally to the US...

[natty bumppo 297]

Let me demonstrate: Under what circumstances would you find it excusable that I move into your home w/o asking your permission?

I can think of a few.

Please share ....

If someone's life was threatened and they had to hide in the house to avoid getting killed.

As much as I hate people, I still wouldn't send a person out to die.

Believe it or not, some come illegally to the US to avoid getting killed. Sometimes political asylum cases take a little too long to process at US Embassies abroad. In that case, your example is logic for those avoiding death at home by migrating illegally to the US...

... and moving into your home ... without your permission...

[mawilson 2,133]

Let me demonstrate: Under what circumstances would you find it excusable that I move into your home w/o asking your permission?

I can think of a few.

Please share ....

If someone's life was threatened and they had to hide in the house to avoid getting killed.

As much as I hate people, I still wouldn't send a person out to die.

Believe it or not, some come illegally to the US to avoid getting killed. Sometimes political asylum cases take a little too long to process at US Embassies abroad. In that case, your example is logic for those avoiding death at home by migrating illegally to the US...

... and moving into your home ... without your permission...

You got it.

[HAL 9000 96]

Let me demonstrate: Under what circumstances would you find it excusable that I move into your home w/o asking your permission?

I can think of a few.

Please share ....

If someone's life was threatened and they had to hide in the house to avoid getting killed.

As much as I hate people, I still wouldn't send a person out to die.

Believe it or not, some come illegally to the US to avoid getting killed. Sometimes political asylum cases take a little too long to process at US Embassies abroad. In that case, your example is logic for those avoiding death at home by migrating illegally to the US...

... and moving into your home ... without your permission...

I guess we can blame them for taking the choice to live.

Along the same lines of thought, I wonder if maybe there is something I can do from "my" home to make "my" neighborhood, "my" town, "my" region, and "my" world a little better... like using the magical power of democracy to pressure "my" government to stop encouraging corruption elsewhere that ends up permitting situations like those we have mentioned without many adepts reading well enough here and consequentially reducing these pesky home invaders...

... and creating a case where the times we actually have to defend our "homeland," its from a valid enemy and not one we legislate against.

[natty bumppo 297]

Let me demonstrate: Under what circumstances would you find it excusable that I move into your home w/o asking your permission?

I can think of a few.

Please share ....

If someone's life was threatened and they had to hide in the house to avoid getting killed.

As much as I hate people, I still wouldn't send a person out to die.

Believe it or not, some come illegally to the US to avoid getting killed. Sometimes political asylum cases take a little too long to process at US Embassies abroad. In that case, your example is logic for those avoiding death at home by migrating illegally to the US...

... and moving into your home ... without your permission...

You got it.

glad to see you can afford them. your home ... your financial responsibility as you've not requested assistance from others.

[athena_ny 1]

An ex-marine I work with was on base when the INS showed up - guess one of the guys was illegal - well anyway, apparently they made him a citizen right there, though I had a hard time believing this, it was about 15 years ago - at any rate, he was at least made a PR at that point.

Not necessarily agreeing with it, but....

He didn't use a dead cousin's ID, though.