Crackdown has illegal immigrants leaving Arizona

[DavidsPrincess 1]

Interesting point that again is missed by Gary.

We would love to be able to say the Mexican government (and other corrupt institutions) are not facilitating foreign companies from abusing local workers. Unfortunately, many times a clean government comes into power in these countries, US businesses cry foul for losing profitability, and Washington becomes politically involved so that "US Interests" are not harmed. In other words, to think things sequentially:

Support unfair labor practices in Country X by companies from countries like ours --> Country X government wins elections with support of governments like ours --> "our" companies do better profit-wise, Washington is Happy --> while: foreign workers make unfair wages. why at this point? Because its good for "our" companies.--> foreign workers can't make a living wage/comfortable salary based on this unfair labor practice that is supported by a corrupt government that benefits from continued involvement from governments like our own--> final product: foreign workers that can't qualify for legal visas to countries like ours, where financial assets are more readily made, do what they have to do come here.

It seems that possibly one way of reducing illegal immigration to this country, then, is to pressure our own companies to play fair when they set up shop South of the Border. And yes, our government needs to step up to the plate to help our companies cope with such a "hard" thing to do.

To bad that doesn't apply to Mexico or most of the central American countries. The governments are all corrupt. That is their fault and not ours. Blame America and American business's all you want, they have the final say and the final responsibility.

Sure they do... this addresses the problem by... ?

It seems a little more reading in foreign policy and international commerce is needed beyond Faux News and US News. No offense, Gary... but you really should try thinking a little more about causation and not just look at life so symptomatically.

It's their problem not ours. Let them solve it. I am tired of being the worlds keeper. When we intervene we are the worlds bastards, if we don't we are still the worlds bastards. To hell with them all. Take care of ourselves and our interests and let them do the same. You need to stop reading the liberal news and thinking that we need to solve the worlds problems. We have enough to do for ourselves.

So, your response to any problem in the world outside America is, it's their problem, they should fix it?

Interesting, there's a lesson there I am sure.

Yes. And the lesson is this: we can't solve the worlds problems. They need to take responsibility for themselves instead of blaming us.

Here, here! We have regulations on companies that originate outside of our country. They must treat the laborers with the same rights as a US-based company. If a company goes to Mexico they have the same regulations as the companies that originate there. Sure, shame on those companies, but it is ultimately Mexico's responsibility to make sure that it's workers aren't being taken advantage of.

Nobody seems to have mentioned the large number of illegal immigrants who are paid under the table, with cash. These people are using public services, without paying anything in tax money. That, I think, is the ultimate slap in the face to the people who DO pay for those services (the citizens).

if it were up to me, I'd hunt down every last one of them, deport them, tighten the borders, and lessen the fees/wait time to get here LEGALLY. If they are here earning equal wages, paying the same taxes as everyone else, I would welcome them with open arms.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Fortunately for me I'm part of the Round Earth Society.

For some here...that kind of talking will get you labeled a communist.

[DavidsPrincess 1]

Fortunately for me I'm part of the Round Earth Society.

Commie! heheh, just kidding

I still don't quite understand how it would be OUR responsibility to remove corruption from another government. The only way I've seen the U.S. do this is to completely wipe out the current government (we've all seen how) and start from scratch. We obviously couldn't do that to Mexico so what do you propose we COULD do to help? Because I'm not seeing it. All I've seen you do is blame our country (or similar ones, however you want to color it) for their problems, but I haven't seen any solutions.

Edited December 21, 2007 by Aschaal03

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Fortunately for me I'm part of the Round Earth Society.

Commie! heheh, just kidding

I still don't quite understand how it would be OUR responsibility to remove corruption from another government. The only way I've seen the U.S. do this is to completely wipe out the current government (we've all seen how) and start from scratch. We obviously couldn't do that to Mexico so what do you propose we COULD do to help? Because I'm not seeing it. All I've seen you do is blame our country (or similar ones, however you want to color it) for their problems, but I haven't seen any solutions.

We start by revamping our trade agreements with South America to make them fair. We've embraced a free market approach to our relationship with Mexico especially...a free flow of goods and services. Falling in line with the free market ideology, we should make it easy and accessible for those who wish to come here and work. It is an economic issue, not one of national security or lawlessness....that approach will not stop illegal immigrants crossing the border from Mexico.

[Dan J 277]

Fortunately for me I'm part of the Round Earth Society.

Commie! heheh, just kidding

I still don't quite understand how it would be OUR responsibility to remove corruption from another government. The only way I've seen the U.S. do this is to completely wipe out the current government (we've all seen how) and start from scratch. We obviously couldn't do that to Mexico so what do you propose we COULD do to help? Because I'm not seeing it. All I've seen you do is blame our country (or similar ones, however you want to color it) for their problems, but I haven't seen any solutions.

Its pretty simple actually, If we improve the economy of Mexico, fewer people will be interested in traveling to the US to seek employment. We can do that by generating economic development in Mexico but ending agriculture tariffs and ending farm subsidies.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Instead of chastizing people that contribute through their illegal jobs (some, not all) to Social Security, Medicare, and the Federal Treasury...

Can you back-up that statement of those contributions? Not talking some but all. The net effect. I've found sources to the contrary - that they're a net burden - but nothing that supports what you say there. So, let's see it.

That's why I claim that its in some folks, not all.

Okay, so your "contributions" argument is dead. What else you got?

[peejay 327]

Its pretty simple actually, If we improve the economy of Mexico, fewer people will be interested in traveling to the US to seek employment. We can do that by generating economic development in Mexico but ending agriculture tariffs and ending farm subsidies.

How about..."if the corrupt oligarchs" of Mexico straighten out their own country? As usual the blame and the solution is hung on the wrong culprit.

It isn't our responsibility to feed, cloth, educate, employ, and solve the problems of Mexico or any other country.

Join the Peace Corps if you want to save the world, but don't volunteer America for something that really isn't our balihoo.

Here is Mexico's and other Third World country's major problem (and one that they need to get a grip on):

Mexican Midyear Population Estimates: 1950-2050

(Source: U.S. Census Bureau, International Data Base)

Year Population (in millions)

1950 28.5

1960 38.6

1970 52.8

1980 68.6

1990 84.4

2000 100.4

2010 115.0

2020 128.0

2030 139.1

2040 147.7

2050 153.2

Our's is an immigration problem. Their's is through internal births.

Edited December 21, 2007 by peejay

[Dan J 277]

Its pretty simple actually, If we improve the economy of Mexico, fewer people will be interested in traveling to the US to seek employment. We can do that by generating economic development in Mexico but ending agriculture tariffs and ending farm subsidies.

How about..."if the corrupt oligarchs" of Mexico straighten out their own country? As usual the blame and the solution is hung on the wrong culprit.

It isn't our responsibility to feed, cloth, educate, employ, and solve the problems of Mexico or any other country.

Join the Peace Corps if you want to save the world, but don't volunteer America for something that really isn't our balihoo.

Here is Mexico's and other Third World country's major problem (and one that they need to get a grip on):

Mexican Midyear Population Estimates: 1950-2050

(Source: U.S. Census Bureau, International Data Base)

Year Population (in millions)

1950 28.5

1960 38.6

1970 52.8

1980 68.6

1990 84.4

2000 100.4

2010 115.0

2020 128.0

2030 139.1

2040 147.7

2050 153.2

Our's is an immigration problem. Their's is through internal births.

You don't get it do you? I never said its our responsibility to take care of those in Mexico. However, if economics improve in Mexico, guess what? Many fewer people will want to come here seeking work since they will be able to find it in their own country. That will be much more effective than any fence can ever be.

Once a country develops, population growth issues usually take care of themselves. Just look at most developed countries, many would be shrinking if it were not for immigration.

Right now the US produces way more agricultural goods than we need. A lot of it gets exported at prices which make it impossible for other countries to compete (due to subsidies). So we end up growing a lot of the worlds food, and we have to bring in labor to do it. Why not switch that around?

[peejay 327]

Its pretty simple actually, If we improve the economy of Mexico, fewer people will be interested in traveling to the US to seek employment. We can do that by generating economic development in Mexico but ending agriculture tariffs and ending farm subsidies.

How about..."if the corrupt oligarchs" of Mexico straighten out their own country? As usual the blame and the solution is hung on the wrong culprit.

It isn't our responsibility to feed, cloth, educate, employ, and solve the problems of Mexico or any other country.

Join the Peace Corps if you want to save the world, but don't volunteer America for something that really isn't our balihoo.

Here is Mexico's and other Third World country's major problem (and one that they need to get a grip on):

Mexican Midyear Population Estimates: 1950-2050

(Source: U.S. Census Bureau, International Data Base)

Year Population (in millions)

1950 28.5

1960 38.6

1970 52.8

1980 68.6

1990 84.4

2000 100.4

2010 115.0

2020 128.0

2030 139.1

2040 147.7

2050 153.2

Our's is an immigration problem. Their's is through internal births.

You don't get it do you? I never said its our responsibility to take care of those in Mexico. However, if economics improve in Mexico, guess what? Many fewer people will want to come here seeking work since they will be able to find it in their own country. That will be much more effective than any fence can ever be.

Once a country develops, population growth issues usually take care of themselves. Just look at most developed countries, many would be shrinking if it were not for immigration.

Right now the US produces way more agricultural goods than we need. A lot of it gets exported at prices which make it impossible for other countries to compete (due to subsidies). So we end up growing a lot of the worlds food, and we have to bring in labor to do it. Why not switch that around?

And, if pigs had wings they could fly too! The USA cannot manage it's own economy...much less the rest of the world. Instead, we let the multinational businesses decide what is best for our country. That's about as sound of a policy as letting the inmates run the asylum.

Global capitalism has shown itself to be as much of an answer to the problems of the world as communism was. It is quite obvious that what is best for the multinationals is not what is best for America. It's not in the best interest of America to save the world or to enrich the multinational corporations.

In the end...it's about what is best for the American people. That is the difference between an oligarchy and a democracy.

America needs to decide which one we really want. We live in a world community, but the rest of the world is not the first priority of America and it shouldn't be.

[GaryC 7]

Its pretty simple actually, If we improve the economy of Mexico, fewer people will be interested in traveling to the US to seek employment. We can do that by generating economic development in Mexico but ending agriculture tariffs and ending farm subsidies.

How about..."if the corrupt oligarchs" of Mexico straighten out their own country? As usual the blame and the solution is hung on the wrong culprit.

It isn't our responsibility to feed, cloth, educate, employ, and solve the problems of Mexico or any other country.

Join the Peace Corps if you want to save the world, but don't volunteer America for something that really isn't our balihoo.

Here is Mexico's and other Third World country's major problem (and one that they need to get a grip on):

Mexican Midyear Population Estimates: 1950-2050

(Source: U.S. Census Bureau, International Data Base)

Year Population (in millions)

1950 28.5

1960 38.6

1970 52.8

1980 68.6

1990 84.4

2000 100.4

2010 115.0

2020 128.0

2030 139.1

2040 147.7

2050 153.2

Our's is an immigration problem. Their's is through internal births.

You don't get it do you? I never said its our responsibility to take care of those in Mexico. However, if economics improve in Mexico, guess what? Many fewer people will want to come here seeking work since they will be able to find it in their own country. That will be much more effective than any fence can ever be.

Once a country develops, population growth issues usually take care of themselves. Just look at most developed countries, many would be shrinking if it were not for immigration.

Right now the US produces way more agricultural goods than we need. A lot of it gets exported at prices which make it impossible for other countries to compete (due to subsidies). So we end up growing a lot of the worlds food, and we have to bring in labor to do it. Why not switch that around?

Tell me how the economy of Mexico can improve while they have a corrupt government there. The corrupt government in Mexico is the cause of their poverty! They have vast natural resources. If the Mexican government were really there for their people the problem would be solved without us needing to help. But if the people of Mexico don't take back their country there isn't a thing we can do to make their life better. All we will be doing is making the crooks that run that country richer while the people still stream accross our border looking for a better life. The ball is in their court first. They need to help themselves before we are able to effect things.

[peejay 327]

Its pretty simple actually, If we improve the economy of Mexico, fewer people will be interested in traveling to the US to seek employment. We can do that by generating economic development in Mexico but ending agriculture tariffs and ending farm subsidies.

How about..."if the corrupt oligarchs" of Mexico straighten out their own country? As usual the blame and the solution is hung on the wrong culprit.

It isn't our responsibility to feed, cloth, educate, employ, and solve the problems of Mexico or any other country.

Join the Peace Corps if you want to save the world, but don't volunteer America for something that really isn't our balihoo.

Here is Mexico's and other Third World country's major problem (and one that they need to get a grip on):

Mexican Midyear Population Estimates: 1950-2050

(Source: U.S. Census Bureau, International Data Base)

Year Population (in millions)

1950 28.5

1960 38.6

1970 52.8

1980 68.6

1990 84.4

2000 100.4

2010 115.0

2020 128.0

2030 139.1

2040 147.7

2050 153.2

Our's is an immigration problem. Their's is through internal births.

You don't get it do you? I never said its our responsibility to take care of those in Mexico. However, if economics improve in Mexico, guess what? Many fewer people will want to come here seeking work since they will be able to find it in their own country. That will be much more effective than any fence can ever be.

Once a country develops, population growth issues usually take care of themselves. Just look at most developed countries, many would be shrinking if it were not for immigration.

Right now the US produces way more agricultural goods than we need. A lot of it gets exported at prices which make it impossible for other countries to compete (due to subsidies). So we end up growing a lot of the worlds food, and we have to bring in labor to do it. Why not switch that around?

Tell me how the economy of Mexico can improve while they have a corrupt government there. The corrupt government in Mexico is the cause of their poverty! They have vast natural resources. If the Mexican government were really there for their people the problem would be solved without us needing to help. But if the people of Mexico don't take back their country there isn't a thing we can do to make their life better. All we will be doing is making the crooks that run that country richer while the people still stream accross our border looking for a better life. The ball is in their court first. They need to help themselves before we are able to effect things.

The major obstacle in that scenario is the readily available crutch that the USA has provided for way too long (IMO at the expense of most Americans). We have been letting the elites and oligarchs of both countries decide what is best for themselves and their cronies. It has been way more beneficial to Mexico and to Mexicans than it has been for the vast majority of Americans.

Ross Perot saw it years ago and his predictions were right on target. Yes...that sucking sound...

Just like a freeloading brother-in-law, the USA needs to cut Mexico loose and quit enabling them to sustain the unsustainable course they and us have been on for too long. The only reason it has gone on so long is because the greedy multinational corporations and corrupt Americans have used a bad situation to enrich themselves at the expense of the majority.

We cannot save Mexico from itself and nature has to take its course instead of prolonging the inevitable. Unfortunately some unscrupulous people have figured out they can make out like bandits by prolonging the inevitable for as long as possible while they exploit a bad situation for their own gain. They have and will do anything to maintain the present course that mostly benefits themselves.

The American people will have the most to lose in integrating Mexico with the USA. Unfortunately there are naive people that are suckered into the notion that doing so will bring Mexico up to America's standards. In reality it will sink us to theirs while the elites and oligarchs prosper.

I invite anyone to prove otherwise!

[Peikko 1,575]

The only reason it has gone on so long is because the greedy multinational corporations and corrupt Americans have used a bad situation to enrich themselves at the expense of the majority.

I agree with that, but I don't agree that average 'joe' Mexican has had it good at the expense of avearge 'joe' American. The average Joe in both countries is the loser. Regardless, the average American doesn't believe he stands a better chance of doing well moving South of the border (although, who knows, they might be wrong, if you were able to get in with the 'haves' crowd) but there has been a belief for average joe Mexican that to move North of the border, legally or not will increase their chances securing a better life.

Of course, you are right, it's not up to the average citizen to care too much about the average citizens of other countries, it's their problem, let them deal with it.

[kerewin21 2]

It isn't our responsibility to feed, cloth, educate, employ, and solve the problems of Mexico or any other country.

Actually, Congress thinks otherwise. USAID has a budget of $725 million annually. The whole purpose of USAID is to aid foreign countries in ways that protect our national interest.

http://www.usaid.gov/about_usaid/index.html

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

It isn't our responsibility to feed, cloth, educate, employ, and solve the problems of Mexico or any other country.

Actually, Congress thinks otherwise. USAID has a budget of $725 million annually. The whole purpose of USAID is to aid foreign countries in ways that protect our national interest.http://www.usaid.gov/about_usaid/index.html

Nothing wrong, IMO, with lending a helping hand to enable others to get up on their feet.

We just gotta quit handing out the fish and rather distribute fishing rods and the skills to use them.