Crackdown has illegal immigrants leaving Arizona

[GaryC 7]

So, your response to any problem in the world outside America is, it's their problem, they should fix it?

Interesting, there's a lesson there I am sure.

Funny thing is, when these countries do end up resisting that part of the problem that stems from our own side of the border, they become an enemy all of a sudden and these same individuals that like to argue against helping others clean up an act that we helped mess up argue to drop missiles and call them Reds. For some the Cold War begins anew when the steady flow of profit meanders a bit in favor of more people that did not have access previously. And then they complain when they have to put up with the repercussions, among them human beings coming here.

Really? Examples please. I think you just like to blame America.

[HAL 9000 96]

Interesting point that again is missed by Gary.

We would love to be able to say the Mexican government (and other corrupt institutions) are not facilitating foreign companies from abusing local workers. Unfortunately, many times a clean government comes into power in these countries, US businesses cry foul for losing profitability, and Washington becomes politically involved so that "US Interests" are not harmed. In other words, to think things sequentially:

Support unfair labor practices in Country X by companies from countries like ours --> Country X government wins elections with support of governments like ours --> "our" companies do better profit-wise, Washington is Happy --> while: foreign workers make unfair wages. why at this point? Because its good for "our" companies.--> foreign workers can't make a living wage/comfortable salary based on this unfair labor practice that is supported by a corrupt government that benefits from continued involvement from governments like our own--> final product: foreign workers that can't qualify for legal visas to countries like ours, where financial assets are more readily made, do what they have to do come here.

It seems that possibly one way of reducing illegal immigration to this country, then, is to pressure our own companies to play fair when they set up shop South of the Border. And yes, our government needs to step up to the plate to help our companies cope with such a "hard" thing to do.

To bad that doesn't apply to Mexico or most of the central American countries. The governments are all corrupt. That is their fault and not ours. Blame America and American business's all you want, they have the final say and the final responsibility.

Sure they do... this addresses the problem by... ?

It seems a little more reading in foreign policy and international commerce is needed beyond Faux News and US News. No offense, Gary... but you really should try thinking a little more about causation and not just look at life so symptomatically.

It's their problem not ours. Let them solve it. I am tired of being the worlds keeper. When we intervene we are the worlds bastards, if we don't we are still the worlds bastards. To hell with them all. Take care of ourselves and our interests and let them do the same. You need to stop reading the liberal news and thinking that we need to solve the worlds problems. We have enough to do for ourselves.

So, your response to any problem in the world outside America is, it's their problem, they should fix it?

Interesting, there's a lesson there I am sure.

Yes. And the lesson is this: we can't solve the worlds problems. They need to take responsibility for themselves instead of blaming us.

Good Gary. All you need to do is think of our involvement in the creation of the problems in the first place, and without burdening ourselves in the blame-game, actually think of supporting a solution...

Like...

Not supporting US politicians that isolate the US at their own convenience, yet like to play the interventionist role when it boils down to profits and more profits. It is a give and take world. We don't have to take more than we can handle at any given moment.

So, your response to any problem in the world outside America is, it's their problem, they should fix it?

Interesting, there's a lesson there I am sure.

Funny thing is, when these countries do end up resisting that part of the problem that stems from our own side of the border, they become an enemy all of a sudden and these same individuals that like to argue against helping others clean up an act that we helped mess up argue to drop missiles and call them Reds. For some the Cold War begins anew when the steady flow of profit meanders a bit in favor of more people that did not have access previously. And then they complain when they have to put up with the repercussions, among them human beings coming here.

Really? Examples please. I think you just like to blame America.

Why? Am I not American?

Of course, you could also read what my opinions say.

[GaryC 7]

Interesting point that again is missed by Gary.

We would love to be able to say the Mexican government (and other corrupt institutions) are not facilitating foreign companies from abusing local workers. Unfortunately, many times a clean government comes into power in these countries, US businesses cry foul for losing profitability, and Washington becomes politically involved so that "US Interests" are not harmed. In other words, to think things sequentially:

Support unfair labor practices in Country X by companies from countries like ours --> Country X government wins elections with support of governments like ours --> "our" companies do better profit-wise, Washington is Happy --> while: foreign workers make unfair wages. why at this point? Because its good for "our" companies.--> foreign workers can't make a living wage/comfortable salary based on this unfair labor practice that is supported by a corrupt government that benefits from continued involvement from governments like our own--> final product: foreign workers that can't qualify for legal visas to countries like ours, where financial assets are more readily made, do what they have to do come here.

It seems that possibly one way of reducing illegal immigration to this country, then, is to pressure our own companies to play fair when they set up shop South of the Border. And yes, our government needs to step up to the plate to help our companies cope with such a "hard" thing to do.

To bad that doesn't apply to Mexico or most of the central American countries. The governments are all corrupt. That is their fault and not ours. Blame America and American business's all you want, they have the final say and the final responsibility.

Sure they do... this addresses the problem by... ?

It seems a little more reading in foreign policy and international commerce is needed beyond Faux News and US News. No offense, Gary... but you really should try thinking a little more about causation and not just look at life so symptomatically.

It's their problem not ours. Let them solve it. I am tired of being the worlds keeper. When we intervene we are the worlds bastards, if we don't we are still the worlds bastards. To hell with them all. Take care of ourselves and our interests and let them do the same. You need to stop reading the liberal news and thinking that we need to solve the worlds problems. We have enough to do for ourselves.

So, your response to any problem in the world outside America is, it's their problem, they should fix it?

Interesting, there's a lesson there I am sure.

Yes. And the lesson is this: we can't solve the worlds problems. They need to take responsibility for themselves instead of blaming us.

Good Gary. All you need to do is think of our involvement in the creation of the problems in the first place, and without burdening ourselves in the blame-game, actually think of supporting a solution...

Like...

Not supporting US politicians that isolate the US at their own convenience, yet like to play the interventionist role when it boils down to profits and more profits. It is a give and take world. We don't have to take more than we can handle at any given moment.

Your attitude is breathtaking. America is to blame for the worlds problems according to you. No one else has any responsibility at all. Why don't you move to one of these countries and leave this nasty old place?

[GaryC 7]

Why? Am I not American?

Of course, you could also read what my opinions say.

I have no idea if your an American or not. Remember half of the people here come from someplace else. As for your opinion I think they stink. But of course I am sure you think the same for mine so we are even.

[HAL 9000 96]

Interesting point that again is missed by Gary.

We would love to be able to say the Mexican government (and other corrupt institutions) are not facilitating foreign companies from abusing local workers. Unfortunately, many times a clean government comes into power in these countries, US businesses cry foul for losing profitability, and Washington becomes politically involved so that "US Interests" are not harmed. In other words, to think things sequentially:

Support unfair labor practices in Country X by companies from countries like ours --> Country X government wins elections with support of governments like ours --> "our" companies do better profit-wise, Washington is Happy --> while: foreign workers make unfair wages. why at this point? Because its good for "our" companies.--> foreign workers can't make a living wage/comfortable salary based on this unfair labor practice that is supported by a corrupt government that benefits from continued involvement from governments like our own--> final product: foreign workers that can't qualify for legal visas to countries like ours, where financial assets are more readily made, do what they have to do come here.

It seems that possibly one way of reducing illegal immigration to this country, then, is to pressure our own companies to play fair when they set up shop South of the Border. And yes, our government needs to step up to the plate to help our companies cope with such a "hard" thing to do.

To bad that doesn't apply to Mexico or most of the central American countries. The governments are all corrupt. That is their fault and not ours. Blame America and American business's all you want, they have the final say and the final responsibility.

Sure they do... this addresses the problem by... ?

It seems a little more reading in foreign policy and international commerce is needed beyond Faux News and US News. No offense, Gary... but you really should try thinking a little more about causation and not just look at life so symptomatically.

It's their problem not ours. Let them solve it. I am tired of being the worlds keeper. When we intervene we are the worlds bastards, if we don't we are still the worlds bastards. To hell with them all. Take care of ourselves and our interests and let them do the same. You need to stop reading the liberal news and thinking that we need to solve the worlds problems. We have enough to do for ourselves.

So, your response to any problem in the world outside America is, it's their problem, they should fix it?

Interesting, there's a lesson there I am sure.

Yes. And the lesson is this: we can't solve the worlds problems. They need to take responsibility for themselves instead of blaming us.

Good Gary. All you need to do is think of our involvement in the creation of the problems in the first place, and without burdening ourselves in the blame-game, actually think of supporting a solution...

Like...

Not supporting US politicians that isolate the US at their own convenience, yet like to play the interventionist role when it boils down to profits and more profits. It is a give and take world. We don't have to take more than we can handle at any given moment.

Your attitude is breathtaking. America is to blame for the worlds problems according to you. No one else has any responsibility at all. Why don't you move to one of these countries and leave this nasty old place?

Where do I blame our country for the state of the world? Please, like I've asked you before and in plain English more than once, clearly point out in my writing where I do exactly that.

Again, put one up for the old tally sheet of " move to " when you have no argument based on a lack of reading.

[HAL 9000 96]

Why? Am I not American?

Of course, you could also read what my opinions say.

I have no idea if your an American or not. Remember half of the people here come from someplace else. As for your opinion I think they stink. But of course I am sure you think the same for mine so we are even.

Not really. We have a LOT more in common than you care to admit. I'd be given to thinking that us, as being people in love with foreigners, at least would try to look at the world as something greater than summing everything up to black or white. If the world really were like that many of the problems we all bicker over here would have been solved decades ago.

[GaryC 7]

Where do I blame our country for the state of the world? Please, like I've asked you before and in plain English more than once, clearly point out in my writing where I do exactly that.

Again, put one up for the old tally sheet of " move to " when you have no argument based on a lack of reading.

Do you even read what you write? What is this then? At least be honest with yourself.

Unfortunately, many times a clean government comes into power in these countries, US businesses cry foul for losing profitability, and Washington becomes politically involved so that "US Interests" are not harmed. In other words, to think things sequentially:

Support unfair labor practices in Country X by companies from countries like ours --> Country X government wins elections with support of governments like ours --> "our" companies do better profit-wise, Washington is Happy --> while: foreign workers make unfair wages. why at this point? Because its good for "our" companies.--> foreign workers can't make a living wage/comfortable salary based on this unfair labor practice that is supported by a corrupt government that benefits from continued involvement from governments like our own--> final product: foreign workers that can't qualify for legal visas to countries like ours, where financial assets are more readily made, do what they have to do come here.

Edited December 21, 2007 by GaryC

[HAL 9000 96]

Where do I blame our country for the state of the world? Please, like I've asked you before and in plain English more than once, clearly point out in my writing where I do exactly that.

Again, put one up for the old tally sheet of " move to " when you have no argument based on a lack of reading.

Do you even read what you write? What is this then? At least be honest with yourself.

Unfortunately, many times a clean government comes into power in these countries, US businesses cry foul for losing profitability, and Washington becomes politically involved so that "US Interests" are not harmed. In other words, to think things sequentially:

Support unfair labor practices in Country X by companies from countries like ours --> Country X government wins elections with support of governments like ours --> "our" companies do better profit-wise, Washington is Happy --> while: foreign workers make unfair wages. why at this point? Because its good for "our" companies.--> foreign workers can't make a living wage/comfortable salary based on this unfair labor practice that is supported by a corrupt government that benefits from continued involvement from governments like our own--> final product: foreign workers that can't qualify for legal visas to countries like ours, where financial assets are more readily made, do what they have to do come here.

Um hummm...

OK. To clarify things I've bolded those examples you think are so darn offensive and make the issue more black/white than even you argue. Now explain where it is that I so blatantly condemn our country for its actions?

And again... do I state that the blame game is entirely on our shoulders? Nope... but have fun looking and "finding" such words in my posts.

[GaryC 7]

Where do I blame our country for the state of the world? Please, like I've asked you before and in plain English more than once, clearly point out in my writing where I do exactly that.

Again, put one up for the old tally sheet of " move to " when you have no argument based on a lack of reading.

Do you even read what you write? What is this then? At least be honest with yourself.

Unfortunately, many times a clean government comes into power in these countries, US businesses cry foul for losing profitability, and Washington becomes politically involved so that "US Interests" are not harmed. In other words, to think things sequentially:

Support unfair labor practices in Country X by companies from countries like ours --> Country X government wins elections with support of governments like ours --> "our" companies do better profit-wise, Washington is Happy --> while: foreign workers make unfair wages. why at this point? Because its good for "our" companies.--> foreign workers can't make a living wage/comfortable salary based on this unfair labor practice that is supported by a corrupt government that benefits from continued involvement from governments like our own--> final product: foreign workers that can't qualify for legal visas to countries like ours, where financial assets are more readily made, do what they have to do come here.

Um hummm...

OK. To clarify things I've bolded those examples you think are so darn offensive and make the issue more black/white than even you argue. Now explain where it is that I so blatantly condemn our country for its actions?

And again... do I state that the blame game is entirely on our shoulders? Nope... but have fun looking and "finding" such words in my posts.

So name some other countries that you were referring to. It's obvious that you were referring to the USA.

I can see you will not even be honest with yourself. So talking to you is useless.

[JohnK 0]

Now if we could just find a way to make 'em leave even faster!!!

[HAL 9000 96]

hey I'm cool with that...

but as a parting present I'll give you one hint:

[in black and white for better understanding]

North vs South

Google that, not the US Civil War part... but international North and how it plays on international South.

maybe then...

geeeeeez

[desert_fox 32]

Just shows you that in the case of Arizona, that the illegals will self-deport when the laws make it such that they cannot legally get a job, drive a car, etc. Just read the other day that the State of Oregon has passed a law finally requiring everyone seeking a drivers license to show legal presence in the country. Oregon had resisted making this change, and they were becoming a magnet at attracting illegals. The people had finally had enough of it.

The illegals should not be demonstrating and marching for changes in OUR country, their arguement should be with their home countries to provide the economic growth and opportunity to support their families. Mexico is by no means a poor country...it has ample natural resouces that could develop many kinds of industry, and it is also an OPEC oil exporter. Too bad that none of this wealth filters down to the people but ends up in the personal accounts of corrupt officials and the the hand full that constitute the upper class. Mexico and most of latin America have no middle class. You are either very rich or very poor at like 5%/95% split. A few countries are making the split from the traditional corruption and do have a rising middle class...countries like Costa Rica and Chile for example where the standard of living is quite high compared to the rest of Latin America. Corruption and over-population are what they should be demostrating against at home. After all, it is not macho, in direct opposition to their cultural beliefs, to have 10 klds if you have no means to support them or educate them.

[HAL 9000 96]

My point exactly!! This is a step in the right direction:

"their arguement should be with their home countries to provide the economic growth and opportunity to support their families. Mexico is by no means a poor country...it has ample natural resouces that could develop many kinds of industry, and it is also an OPEC oil exporter. Too bad that none of this wealth filters down to the people but ends up in the personal accounts of corrupt officials and the the hand full that constitute the upper class. Mexico and most of latin America have no middle class. You are either very rich or very poor at like 5%/95% split. A few countries are making the split from the traditional corruption and do have a rising middle class...countries like Costa Rica and Chile for example where the standard of living is quite high compared to the rest of Latin America. Corruption and over-population are what they should be demostrating against at home. After all, it is not macho, in direct opposition to their cultural beliefs, to have 10 klds if you have no means to support them or educate them."

now all you need is political will to help people around the planet change their governments for the better.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

hey I'm cool with that...

but as a parting present I'll give you one hint:

[in black and white for better understanding]

North vs South

Google that, not the US Civil War part... but international North and how it plays on international South.

maybe then...

geeeeeez

I've been down this road before. Whenever it's brought up ...the complexity and cause and effect of illegal immigration in this country, the debate gets framed as a blame game. Sigh...I feel your frustration.

[HAL 9000 96]

hey I'm cool with that...

but as a parting present I'll give you one hint:

[in black and white for better understanding]

North vs South

Google that, not the US Civil War part... but international North and how it plays on international South.

maybe then...

geeeeeez

I've been down this road before. Whenever it's brought up ...the complexity and cause and effect of illegal immigration in this country, the debate gets framed as a blame game. Sigh...I feel your frustration.

Nah Steven... not frustration... if not for having been used to dealing with closed-mindedness on a daily basis at work it would be worse. Fortunately for me I'm part of the Round Earth Society.