Crackdown has illegal immigrants leaving Arizona

[HAL 9000 96]

I hope they can build a good life for their family, in Mexico.

They will be welcome in the USA, at least by me, when they do it legally. My only gripe is they cut in line to get here, then demand "rights" and then some misguided people here thinking thats OK. Anyone that goes through the process and gets the visa is very welcome, anyone that thinks they are above the law is unwelcome.

Here we agree in part, Gary. I believe that all human beings are entitled to basic human rights. That is, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. This includes being able to eat and feed your family. Too bad in their own countries they can't do so as well as here, in part to blame are many of the same companies that yield higher profits because their governments are corrupt and in place with a great helping hand from Washington.

People will always think more so with their stomach and their family's stomach rather than by where they belong legally.

[Ban Hammer 13,349]

Right, because a few people (1-2%) leaving is going to have much effect at all. Lets look at it again, when all the illegal immigrants leave (10% of Arizona's workforce). You cant just take out that many people and expect business as usual.

just might see a decrease in gasoline used which omg will lower prices

Cause everyone knows that illegals don't use gasoline outside the US

the demand for it outside the usa is decreased by the higher prices. gas is still pretty cheap in the usa compared to other places.

Demand for oil will remain unchanged. While somewhat less oil maybe used in the US, more will be used in other countries. So the global demand stays unchanged. Oil will keep costing just as much as it does now.

The reason why gas in the US is cheaper than Europe has nothing to do with demand, but it has everything to do with taxes.

lower wages in mexico = less money available to buy gas. and yes i knew that already about taxes.

lower wages in mexico = less money available to buy gas

equals:

more need to feed mouths = more illegal immigration where wages can be higher... a cicle of an argument in logic. People think of where is best for their families, not where they belong legally.

the one thing you forgot to factor in is that food costs way less there too. luxeries like gasoline are not necessarily cheaper.

[GaryC 7]

I hope they can build a good life for their family, in Mexico.

They will be welcome in the USA, at least by me, when they do it legally. My only gripe is they cut in line to get here, then demand "rights" and then some misguided people here thinking thats OK. Anyone that goes through the process and gets the visa is very welcome, anyone that thinks they are above the law is unwelcome.

Here we agree in part, Gary. I believe that all human beings are entitled to basic human rights. That is, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. This includes being able to eat and feed your family. Too bad in their own countries they can't do so as well as here, in part to blame are many of the same companies that yield higher profits because their governments are corrupt and in place with a great helping hand from Washington.

People will always think more so with their stomach and their family's stomach rather than by where they belong legally.

Yeah, its all our fault. Silly me. The truth is Mexico has vast natural resources and has no excuse for their poverty. If the Mexican people want a better life for themselves they need to insist on a government that isn't corrupt.

Edited December 21, 2007 by GaryC

[HAL 9000 96]

Right, because a few people (1-2%) leaving is going to have much effect at all. Lets look at it again, when all the illegal immigrants leave (10% of Arizona's workforce). You cant just take out that many people and expect business as usual.

just might see a decrease in gasoline used which omg will lower prices

Cause everyone knows that illegals don't use gasoline outside the US

the demand for it outside the usa is decreased by the higher prices. gas is still pretty cheap in the usa compared to other places.

Demand for oil will remain unchanged. While somewhat less oil maybe used in the US, more will be used in other countries. So the global demand stays unchanged. Oil will keep costing just as much as it does now.

The reason why gas in the US is cheaper than Europe has nothing to do with demand, but it has everything to do with taxes.

lower wages in mexico = less money available to buy gas. and yes i knew that already about taxes.

lower wages in mexico = less money available to buy gas

equals:

more need to feed mouths = more illegal immigration where wages can be higher... a cicle of an argument in logic. People think of where is best for their families, not where they belong legally.

the one thing you forgot to factor in is that food costs way less there too. luxeries like gasoline are not necessarily cheaper.

It is way cheaper down there.

Nevertheless, with cheaper food, they still emigrate this way to be able to live better. Somehow, things are not going well enough to keep people at home.

Gasoline can be actually more expensive on a dollar to peso comparison. Factor in the exchange rate and the decrease in wages and its even more expensive.

[HAL 9000 96]

I hope they can build a good life for their family, in Mexico.

They will be welcome in the USA, at least by me, when they do it legally. My only gripe is they cut in line to get here, then demand "rights" and then some misguided people here thinking thats OK. Anyone that goes through the process and gets the visa is very welcome, anyone that thinks they are above the law is unwelcome.

Here we agree in part, Gary. I believe that all human beings are entitled to basic human rights. That is, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. This includes being able to eat and feed your family. Too bad in their own countries they can't do so as well as here, in part to blame are many of the same companies that yield higher profits because their governments are corrupt and in place with a great helping hand from Washington.

People will always think more so with their stomach and their family's stomach rather than by where they belong legally.

Yeah, its all our fault. Silly me. The truth is Mexico has vast natural resources and has no excuse for their poverty. If the Mexican people want a better life for themselves they need to insist on a government that isn't corrupt.

You're missing the point Gary. Its not about making scapegoats as an excuse not to do something.

Like I said, things do not happen in a sterile vacuum. If our companies are doing business down there and do not support a clean government, and healthy population, and Washington patronizes corruption by supporting politicians that favor whatever Washington wants, then you get the same causation for- at least from the point that US Companies abuse and reuse over and over again, a continuation of the status quo- that is... bingo! Illegal immigration.

[GaryC 7]

I hope they can build a good life for their family, in Mexico.

They will be welcome in the USA, at least by me, when they do it legally. My only gripe is they cut in line to get here, then demand "rights" and then some misguided people here thinking thats OK. Anyone that goes through the process and gets the visa is very welcome, anyone that thinks they are above the law is unwelcome.

Here we agree in part, Gary. I believe that all human beings are entitled to basic human rights. That is, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. This includes being able to eat and feed your family. Too bad in their own countries they can't do so as well as here, in part to blame are many of the same companies that yield higher profits because their governments are corrupt and in place with a great helping hand from Washington.

People will always think more so with their stomach and their family's stomach rather than by where they belong legally.

Yeah, its all our fault. Silly me. The truth is Mexico has vast natural resources and has no excuse for their poverty. If the Mexican people want a better life for themselves they need to insist on a government that isn't corrupt.

You're missing the point Gary. Its not about making scapegoats as an excuse not to do something.

Like I said, things do not happen in a sterile vacuum. If our companies are doing business down there and do not support a clean government, and healthy population, and Washington patronizes corruption by supporting politicians that favor whatever Washington wants, then you get the same causation for- at least from the point that US Companies abuse and reuse over and over again, a continuation of the status quo- that is... bingo! Illegal immigration.

You don't seem to understand. It is the responsibility of the Mexican government to set the rules for American companies conduct in their country. A business is going to do whatever it can get away with. That is just the facts of life. It's not our fault that the Mexican government does not have the rules in place to protect themselves.

[Peikko 1,575]

So, business can do 'whatever it can get away with' even though people should follow rules? Interesting philosophy.

[GaryC 7]

So, business can do 'whatever it can get away with' even though people should follow rules? Interesting philosophy.

You missed it. The business's there don't have rules because the Mexican government haven't made them or are not enforcing them. That is their fault and so are the problems caused by that lack of rules or enforcement.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Illegal immigration enablers..... PWNED!

[HAL 9000 96]

Interesting point that again is missed by Gary.

We would love to be able to say the Mexican government (and other corrupt institutions) are not facilitating foreign companies from abusing local workers. Unfortunately, many times a clean government comes into power in these countries, US businesses cry foul for losing profitability, and Washington becomes politically involved so that "US Interests" are not harmed. In other words, to think things sequentially:

Support unfair labor practices in Country X by companies from countries like ours --> Country X government wins elections with support of governments like ours --> "our" companies do better profit-wise, Washington is Happy --> while: foreign workers make unfair wages. why at this point? Because its good for "our" companies.--> foreign workers can't make a living wage/comfortable salary based on this unfair labor practice that is supported by a corrupt government that benefits from continued involvement from governments like our own--> final product: foreign workers that can't qualify for legal visas to countries like ours, where financial assets are more readily made, do what they have to do come here.

It seems that possibly one way of reducing illegal immigration to this country, then, is to pressure our own companies to play fair when they set up shop South of the Border. And yes, our government needs to step up to the plate to help our companies cope with such a "hard" thing to do.

[GaryC 7]

Interesting point that again is missed by Gary.

We would love to be able to say the Mexican government (and other corrupt institutions) are not facilitating foreign companies from abusing local workers. Unfortunately, many times a clean government comes into power in these countries, US businesses cry foul for losing profitability, and Washington becomes politically involved so that "US Interests" are not harmed. In other words, to think things sequentially:

Support unfair labor practices in Country X by companies from countries like ours --> Country X government wins elections with support of governments like ours --> "our" companies do better profit-wise, Washington is Happy --> while: foreign workers make unfair wages. why at this point? Because its good for "our" companies.--> foreign workers can't make a living wage/comfortable salary based on this unfair labor practice that is supported by a corrupt government that benefits from continued involvement from governments like our own--> final product: foreign workers that can't qualify for legal visas to countries like ours, where financial assets are more readily made, do what they have to do come here.

It seems that possibly one way of reducing illegal immigration to this country, then, is to pressure our own companies to play fair when they set up shop South of the Border. And yes, our government needs to step up to the plate to help our companies cope with such a "hard" thing to do.

To bad that doesn't apply to Mexico or most of the central American countries. The governments are all corrupt. That is their fault and not ours. Blame America and American business's all you want, they have the final say and the final responsibility.

[HAL 9000 96]

Interesting point that again is missed by Gary.

We would love to be able to say the Mexican government (and other corrupt institutions) are not facilitating foreign companies from abusing local workers. Unfortunately, many times a clean government comes into power in these countries, US businesses cry foul for losing profitability, and Washington becomes politically involved so that "US Interests" are not harmed. In other words, to think things sequentially:

Support unfair labor practices in Country X by companies from countries like ours --> Country X government wins elections with support of governments like ours --> "our" companies do better profit-wise, Washington is Happy --> while: foreign workers make unfair wages. why at this point? Because its good for "our" companies.--> foreign workers can't make a living wage/comfortable salary based on this unfair labor practice that is supported by a corrupt government that benefits from continued involvement from governments like our own--> final product: foreign workers that can't qualify for legal visas to countries like ours, where financial assets are more readily made, do what they have to do come here.

It seems that possibly one way of reducing illegal immigration to this country, then, is to pressure our own companies to play fair when they set up shop South of the Border. And yes, our government needs to step up to the plate to help our companies cope with such a "hard" thing to do.

To bad that doesn't apply to Mexico or most of the central American countries. The governments are all corrupt. That is their fault and not ours. Blame America and American business's all you want, they have the final say and the final responsibility.

Sure they do... this addresses the problem by... ?

It seems a little more reading in foreign policy and international commerce is needed beyond Faux News and US News. No offense, Gary... but you really should try thinking a little more about causation and not just look at life so symptomatically.

[Peikko 1,575]

So, your response to any problem in the world outside America is, it's their problem, they should fix it?

Interesting, there's a lesson there I am sure.

[GaryC 7]

Interesting point that again is missed by Gary.

We would love to be able to say the Mexican government (and other corrupt institutions) are not facilitating foreign companies from abusing local workers. Unfortunately, many times a clean government comes into power in these countries, US businesses cry foul for losing profitability, and Washington becomes politically involved so that "US Interests" are not harmed. In other words, to think things sequentially:

Support unfair labor practices in Country X by companies from countries like ours --> Country X government wins elections with support of governments like ours --> "our" companies do better profit-wise, Washington is Happy --> while: foreign workers make unfair wages. why at this point? Because its good for "our" companies.--> foreign workers can't make a living wage/comfortable salary based on this unfair labor practice that is supported by a corrupt government that benefits from continued involvement from governments like our own--> final product: foreign workers that can't qualify for legal visas to countries like ours, where financial assets are more readily made, do what they have to do come here.

It seems that possibly one way of reducing illegal immigration to this country, then, is to pressure our own companies to play fair when they set up shop South of the Border. And yes, our government needs to step up to the plate to help our companies cope with such a "hard" thing to do.

To bad that doesn't apply to Mexico or most of the central American countries. The governments are all corrupt. That is their fault and not ours. Blame America and American business's all you want, they have the final say and the final responsibility.

Sure they do... this addresses the problem by... ?

It seems a little more reading in foreign policy and international commerce is needed beyond Faux News and US News. No offense, Gary... but you really should try thinking a little more about causation and not just look at life so symptomatically.

It's their problem not ours. Let them solve it. I am tired of being the worlds keeper. When we intervene we are the worlds bastards, if we don't we are still the worlds bastards. To hell with them all. Take care of ourselves and our interests and let them do the same. You need to stop reading the liberal news and thinking that we need to solve the worlds problems. We have enough to do for ourselves.

So, your response to any problem in the world outside America is, it's their problem, they should fix it?

Interesting, there's a lesson there I am sure.

Yes. And the lesson is this: we can't solve the worlds problems. They need to take responsibility for themselves instead of blaming us.

[HAL 9000 96]

So, your response to any problem in the world outside America is, it's their problem, they should fix it?

Interesting, there's a lesson there I am sure.

Funny thing is, when these countries do end up resisting that part of the problem that stems from our own side of the border, they become an enemy all of a sudden and these same individuals that like to argue against helping others clean up an act that we helped mess up argue to drop missiles and call them Reds. For some the Cold War begins anew when the steady flow of profit meanders a bit in favor of more people that did not have access previously. And then they complain when they have to put up with the repercussions, among them human beings coming here.