Crackdown has illegal immigrants leaving Arizona

[Ban Hammer 13,349]

Right, because a few people (1-2%) leaving is going to have much effect at all. Lets look at it again, when all the illegal immigrants leave (10% of Arizona's workforce). You cant just take out that many people and expect business as usual.

just might see a decrease in gasoline used which omg will lower prices

[HAL 9000 96]

Right, because a few people (1-2%) leaving is going to have much effect at all. Lets look at it again, when all the illegal immigrants leave (10% of Arizona's workforce). You cant just take out that many people and expect business as usual.

just might see a decrease in gasoline used which omg will lower prices

Wow Illegals really do impact the economy then!!!

[Dan J 277]

Right, because a few people (1-2%) leaving is going to have much effect at all. Lets look at it again, when all the illegal immigrants leave (10% of Arizona's workforce). You cant just take out that many people and expect business as usual.

just might see a decrease in gasoline used which omg will lower prices

Cause everyone knows that illegals don't use gasoline outside the US

[Ban Hammer 13,349]

Right, because a few people (1-2%) leaving is going to have much effect at all. Lets look at it again, when all the illegal immigrants leave (10% of Arizona's workforce). You cant just take out that many people and expect business as usual.

just might see a decrease in gasoline used which omg will lower prices

Wow Illegals really do impact the economy then!!!

decrease in demand - which may well start a sell off by speculators in gas futures.

Right, because a few people (1-2%) leaving is going to have much effect at all. Lets look at it again, when all the illegal immigrants leave (10% of Arizona's workforce). You cant just take out that many people and expect business as usual.

just might see a decrease in gasoline used which omg will lower prices

Cause everyone knows that illegals don't use gasoline outside the US

the demand for it outside the usa is decreased by the higher prices. gas is still pretty cheap in the usa compared to other places.

[HAL 9000 96]

Right, because a few people (1-2%) leaving is going to have much effect at all. Lets look at it again, when all the illegal immigrants leave (10% of Arizona's workforce). You cant just take out that many people and expect business as usual.

just might see a decrease in gasoline used which omg will lower prices

Wow Illegals really do impact the economy then!!!

decrease in demand - which may well start a sell off by speculators in gas futures.

Ha ha ha ha... omg... in Spanish now... Ja ja ja ja...

[Ban Hammer 13,349]

Right, because a few people (1-2%) leaving is going to have much effect at all. Lets look at it again, when all the illegal immigrants leave (10% of Arizona's workforce). You cant just take out that many people and expect business as usual.

just might see a decrease in gasoline used which omg will lower prices

Wow Illegals really do impact the economy then!!!

decrease in demand - which may well start a sell off by speculators in gas futures.

Ha ha ha ha... omg... in Spanish now... Ja ja ja ja...

i expected about as much from you

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

So if cracking down on the employers has a demonstrable impact then perhaps all this talk of fences is superfluous and unnecessary.

[HAL 9000 96]

Right, because a few people (1-2%) leaving is going to have much effect at all. Lets look at it again, when all the illegal immigrants leave (10% of Arizona's workforce). You cant just take out that many people and expect business as usual.

just might see a decrease in gasoline used which omg will lower prices

Wow Illegals really do impact the economy then!!!

decrease in demand - which may well start a sell off by speculators in gas futures.

Ha ha ha ha... omg... in Spanish now... Ja ja ja ja...

i expected about as much from you

What you should have expected:

Instead of chastizing people that contribute through their illegal jobs (some, not all) to Social Security, Medicare, and the Federal Treasury without possibility of any return on such contributions, so that people that do not take care of their health and drive gas guzzling vehicles that by far outpace the demand created by a small fragment of a population and hence create the demand-driven price inflation of, you guessed it, gas...

We could just merge the global warming-style threads to the illegals threads since it is more than self evident that people that lack the morality to care about their fellow human beings also tend to lack the ability to see beyond the commodities they overconsume. Funny how it all comes together.

[natty bumppo 297]

What you should have expected:

Instead of chastizing people that contribute through their illegal jobs (some, not all) to Social Security, Medicare, and the Federal Treasury without possibility of any return on such contributions, so that people that do not take care of their health and drive gas guzzling vehicles that by far outpace the demand created by a small fragment of a population and hence create the demand-driven price inflation of, you guessed it, gas...

We could just merge the global warming-style threads to the illegals threads since it is more than self evident that people that lack the morality to care about their fellow human beings also tend to lack the ability to see beyond the commodities they overconsume. Funny how it all comes together.

So ... tell us how you really feel ....

[Ban Hammer 13,349]

Right, because a few people (1-2%) leaving is going to have much effect at all. Lets look at it again, when all the illegal immigrants leave (10% of Arizona's workforce). You cant just take out that many people and expect business as usual.

just might see a decrease in gasoline used which omg will lower prices

Wow Illegals really do impact the economy then!!!

decrease in demand - which may well start a sell off by speculators in gas futures.

Ha ha ha ha... omg... in Spanish now... Ja ja ja ja...

i expected about as much from you

What you should have expected:

Instead of chastizing people that contribute through their illegal jobs (some, not all) to Social Security, Medicare, and the Federal Treasury without possibility of any return on such contributions, so that people that do not take care of their health and drive gas guzzling vehicles that by far outpace the demand created by a small fragment of a population and hence create the demand-driven price inflation of, you guessed it, gas...

We could just merge the global warming-style threads to the illegals threads since it is more than self evident that people that lack the morality to care about their fellow human beings also tend to lack the ability to see beyond the commodities they overconsume. Funny how it all comes together.

oh yeah, they contribute alright. to id theft........

[HAL 9000 96]

What you should have expected:

Instead of chastizing people that contribute through their illegal jobs (some, not all) to Social Security, Medicare, and the Federal Treasury without possibility of any return on such contributions, so that people that do not take care of their health and drive gas guzzling vehicles that by far outpace the demand created by a small fragment of a population and hence create the demand-driven price inflation of, you guessed it, gas...

We could just merge the global warming-style threads to the illegals threads since it is more than self evident that people that lack the morality to care about their fellow human beings also tend to lack the ability to see beyond the commodities they overconsume. Funny how it all comes together.

So ... tell us how you really feel ....

Pretty tired today... lots of work to do.

How I think... present-day legislation can be actually enforced at the level its legislated. New legislation to be ratified so that we as a society stop giving OPEC a reason to drive the price of oil to the price it wants. Hint, hint... is there a need for gas-guzzlers? Key word: Need. Back to the illegals... by law they are not here legally. There is no need feeding the rascist segments of our society more wood than it already has accumulated from years of history and abuse, not to mention historical relationships that under certain, logical trains of thought, make places like Arizona more Mexican than Gringo. Is this a call or an argument to re-write history? That would be silly... you can't change what's been done. You can, however, TRY to better things instead of continuing the present top-down arrogant attitude driven, of all things, by the commodities we deny others.

Right, because a few people (1-2%) leaving is going to have much effect at all. Lets look at it again, when all the illegal immigrants leave (10% of Arizona's workforce). You cant just take out that many people and expect business as usual.

just might see a decrease in gasoline used which omg will lower prices

Wow Illegals really do impact the economy then!!!

decrease in demand - which may well start a sell off by speculators in gas futures.

Ha ha ha ha... omg... in Spanish now... Ja ja ja ja...

i expected about as much from you

What you should have expected:

Instead of chastizing people that contribute through their illegal jobs (some, not all) to Social Security, Medicare, and the Federal Treasury without possibility of any return on such contributions, so that people that do not take care of their health and drive gas guzzling vehicles that by far outpace the demand created by a small fragment of a population and hence create the demand-driven price inflation of, you guessed it, gas...

We could just merge the global warming-style threads to the illegals threads since it is more than self evident that people that lack the morality to care about their fellow human beings also tend to lack the ability to see beyond the commodities they overconsume. Funny how it all comes together.

oh yeah, they contribute alright. to id theft........

More beating around the bush.

[Ban Hammer 13,349]

More beating around the bush.

uh huh.......do tell......

Thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of Americans are right now sharing their identities with immigrants and don't know it. It is the dirty little secret of the immigration issue: By not dealing directly with the undocumented worker situation, the U.S government is actually encouraging identity theft. In fact, one can argue that the origins of the identity theft epidemic can be traced to the immigration issue.

The scope of this problem is vast. Every year, nearly 9 million people pay their taxes using the wrong Social Security number. The name used on W-2 tax forms used by employers doesn't match the name on file with the Social Security Administration. There can be many reasons why -- a data entry typo by a human resources department, a woman changes her name after marriage and forgets to report it, or a man uses someone else's SSN to get a job.

Social Security calls this a "no-match" situation. When this happens, the Social Security Administration collects the money, but the wage credits go into limbo. They don't end up on anyone's annual Social Security statement, they end up in something called the Earnings Suspense File. Since 1984, when the Social Security card employment verification requirement kicked in, nearly $500 billion in wages has ended up in that file.

Who are all these people paying their taxes using the wrong SSN? Neither Social Security nor the IRS has ever studied this issue in great detail. But there are clear indications that many -- if not most -- of the 9 million mismatches are immigrants using the wrong SSN. One study by Social Security indicates no-match payments come most frequently from agricultural and restaurant industries, for example.

Not every mismatched SSN belongs to a real living person, and in fact, it appears many are chosen at random. Some belong to the deceased; others are entirely fictitious. One study showed thousands of entries using obvious fakes, such as 123-45-6789 or 999-99-9999.

Many victims are very real

But many victims are very real. Recently, officials in Utah matched a database of children receiving welfare benefits with a database of workers paying state taxes and found 1,800 child victims. It’s impossible to know how many of the impostors were undocumented workers, but Utah Assistant Attorney General Rich Hamp says that behind most cases the agency has prosecuted so far, he’s found an immigrant using someone else’s papers.

Victims often don't have any idea they’re sharing their identity with an immigrant, because there's no way to find out. Social Security won't tell you if someone else is using your SSN. The extra earnings don't end up on your annual Social Security statement, because they are designated to the Earnings Suspense File instead. Ditto for the Internal Revenue Service. The misuse isn't revealed in personal credit reports, either. If somebody uses your number to get a credit card or car loan, the nation's credit bureaus create a new credit file instead of alerting you to the misuse.

Victims only find out when something goes wrong -- when there are unpaid taxes or unpaid bills, debt collectors often track down the original SSN holder.

But there are sometimes hints along the way.

Plenty of blame to go around

The blame lies on us all for not dealing with the situation directly, and instead encouraging under-the-table activity. There are millions of victims on all sides -- including the innocent bystanders who must share their Social Security numbers.

This is what happens when an extra-legal system is in place. Today, there are no rules, which clearly encourages this sharing of Social Security numbers. It encourages the cottage industry that is document forgery. And ultimately, it encourages identity theft.

While consumers cannot learn the secret life of their Social Security numbers, several groups know all about it. The nation’s credit bureaus, for example, can sort their data by number instead of name.

Lenders routinely buy this information when assessing a consumer's credit risk. Every time MSNBC.com covers this issue, workers at car dealers and banks write in to say they’ve seen countless examples of consumers who apply for accounts and have multiple names connected to their Social Security numbers. Privacy rules prevent them from warning the consumers.

And of course, any agency that collects taxes, such as Social Security or the IRS, has this information.

It would certainly be possible for any of these groups to inform those who are sharing SSNs, but a serious attempt has never been made. Why? I suspect that doing so would personalize the immigration debate and might very well lead to a true flash point for the issue.

Three years ago, Social Security did the next-best thing, sending letters to some employers with large lists of people paying taxes using the wrong SSN. As workers scattered, seeing the letters as tantamount to a deportation notice, immigration rights groups protested. The letters were immediately withdrawn. And here we sit.

One thing activists on many sides of this issue seem to agree on –- it’s time to bring undocumented workers out of the shadows. That would be wise, as it would also bring countless identity theft victims out of the shadows.

But until that happens, the IRS, the SSA and the nation’s credit bureaus need to develop a system that allows the rightful holder of a Social Security number to know if it has a secret life.

link

another link regarrding id theft that i doubt you'll read

and some more for you since you think this is so great......

link

Taxpayers pay half a billion dollars per year incarcerating illegal alien criminals. This costs Colorado taxpayers approximately $14 million annually.

link

80% of cocaine and 50% of heroin in the U.S. is smuggled across the border by Mexican nationals. Drug cartels spend a half-billion dollars per year bribing Mexico's corrupt generals and police officials, and armed confrontations between the Mexican army and U.S. Border Patrol agents are a real threat. There have been 118 documented incursions by the Mexican military over the last five years.

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$60 billion dollars are earned by illegal aliens in the U.S. each year. One of Mexico's largest revenue streams (after exports and oil sales) consists of money sent home by legal immigrants and illegal aliens working in the U.S. Economists say this will help Mexico reduce its $17.8 billion defecit and may bolster the peso. $10 billion dollars (as of 2003) are sent back to Mexico annually, according to the Pew Hispanic Center, reported in an Associated Press article, up $800 million from the previous year. ($9 billion dollars were previously sent back annually, according to a September 25, 2002 NPR report). That figure equals what Mexico earns annually from tourism. This is a massive transfer of wealth from America - essentially from America's displaced working poor - to Mexico.

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The total K-12 school expenditure for illegal immigrants costs the states $7.4 billion annually—enough to buy a computer for every junior high student nationwide.9

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FAIR research shows that "the Urban Institute estimates that the cost of educating illegal alien children in the nation's seven states with the highest concentration of illegal aliens was $3.1 billion in 1993 (which, with the growth of their population to 1.3 million, would be more like $5 billion in 2000). This estimate does not take into account the additional costs of bilingual education or other special educational needs."

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Medical service for Americans in affected communities is being severely damaged as hospitals absorb more than $200 million in unreimbursed costs. Some emergency rooms have shut down because they cannot afford to stay open. Local tax-paying Americans are either denied medical care or have to wait in long lines for service as the illegals flood the facilities. In California, the losses are calculated to be about $79 million, with $74 million in Texas, $31 million in Arizona, and $6 million in New Mexico."1

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* Illegal alien households are estimated to use $2,700 a year more in services than they pay in taxes, creating a total fiscal burden of nearly $10.4 billion on the federal budget in 2002.

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Immigration causes average wage decline of $1,700

Two decades' growth in the supply of immigrant workers cost native-born American men an average $1,700 in annual wages by the year 2000, a top economist has concluded.5

Hispanic and black Americans were hurt most by the influx of foreign-born workers, says a report by Harvard University's George Borjas, considered a leading authority on the impact of immigration....

"What past immigration has done -- and what the temporary worker program will continue to do on a potentially larger scale -- is to depress wages and increase profits of the firms that employ the immigrants," Borjas said. "The reduction in earnings occurs regardless of whether the immigrants are legal or illegal, permanent or temporary. It is the presence of additional workers that reduces wages, not their legal status."

link

[HAL 9000 96]

Present laws are already in place. Whether or not you actually want to enforce them is another matter.

[Amby 490]

Bye Bye

[Ban Hammer 13,349]

Present laws are already in place. Whether or not you actually want to enforce them is another matter.

as i thought - you didn't read them because it would conflict with your mindset