Does this buh anyone else?

[jordanianprincess 0]

Should I stop speaking arabic because I live in America? This has nothing to do with a visa or where you live. Sarah was in Hicham's country at the time this happened too. This is your S/O's first language, it's his families first language, and it will be incorporated into your life through marriage, children, etc.

I did not imply that anyone stop speaking arabic.

How can where you live not affect the importance of learning a certain language? If I am going to live in Sweden, certainly it's more important that I can speak Swedish than it is that I can speak Portuguese!

Exactly, that's what I was trying to get at.

That does not make it wrong!

OK, I'm definitely willing to have a friendly debate about this, because I disagree. It seems that we as Americans are not allowed to find something rude if it is something customary in another culture. It doesn't necessarily mean that that the habit is "wrong", but I think Sarah is allowed to be justified in finding something rude. She is looking at things from her prespective, who else's perspective should she be looking at it from?

Well she is definitly entitled to her opinion as we all are. However, it can be seen as rude from many angles. Some people think its rude when you go get a manicure and all the manicurists are speaking thier language, I don't think it is. I think the point I am trying to make is, if you want to live in harmony with your husband/wife you have to accept their culture. Part of that means accepting they speak another language. From a different perspective, my parents are very hurt at the fact that my sister-in-law is the way she is. They feel like she hates us and does not want anything to do with us. I'm not saying that is the case for anyoen here, but its just another viewpoint.

I think what I wanted to say did not come out right, I didn't mean to say that where you live does not affect the importance of the language you speak. If that was the case, none of our S/O's would even try to learn english. Instead of looking at it in a way that says..we live in the USA, so it's english. Or we live in France, so hey we speak French. You should try to look at it in a way that says, my family speaks english, and its important that my S/O learns it to be able to communicate. My S/O speaks arabic and french, so maybe I should learn those languages as well.

[Jenn! 918]

Well she is definitly entitled to her opinion as we all are. However, it can be seen as rude from many angles. Some people think its rude when you go get a manicure and all the manicurists are speaking thier language, I don't think it is. I think the point I am trying to make is, if you want to live in harmony with your husband/wife you have to accept their culture. Part of that means accepting they speak another language. From a different perspective, my parents are very hurt at the fact that my sister-in-law is the way she is. They feel like she hates us and does not want anything to do with us. I'm not saying that is the case for anyoen here, but its just another viewpoint.

I think what I wanted to say did not come out right, I didn't mean to say that where you live does not affect the importance of the language you speak. If that was the case, none of our S/O's would even try to learn english. Instead of looking at it in a way that says..we live in the USA, so it's english. Or we live in France, so hey we speak French. You should try to look at it in a way that says, my family speaks english, and its important that my S/O learns it to be able to communicate. My S/O speaks arabic and french, so maybe I should learn those languages as well.

I keep thinking about Sarah's explanation of the way her fiance's uncle behaved. I would be hurt as well. How can one overcome these sorts of cultural differences? I think the issue is actually far beyond the scope of just language.

Edited April 20, 2006 by jenn3539

[Bosco 1]

OK, I'm definitely willing to have a friendly debate about this, because I disagree. It seems that we as Americans are not allowed to find something rude if it is something customary in another culture. It doesn't necessarily mean that that the habit is "wrong", but I think Sarah is allowed to be justified in finding something rude. She is looking at things from her prespective, who else's perspective should she be looking at it from?

I personally try to always look at things from different perspectives, especially before getting angry or insulted. I feel it leads to better understanding and tolerance in my relationships. What is the point of getting myself in a huff if the person meant no harm? It helps me to appreciate and understand our differences and move on.

I wouldn't want or expect a group to change a behavior simply to accomodate me (in this case speaking something other than their native language), especially if the conversation is not relevant to me. I know plenty of people who are hurt/upset by this (we recently discussed this in my Yahoo group), but my personal feeling is that it would be rude of me to expect everyone to go about differently just so I don't feel left out. If I want to understand, I feel the burden is on me to do something about it.

Rebecca

[jordanianprincess 0]

Well she is definitly entitled to her opinion as we all are. However, it can be seen as rude from many angles. Some people think its rude when you go get a manicure and all the manicurists are speaking thier language, I don't think it is. I think the point I am trying to make is, if you want to live in harmony with your husband/wife you have to accept their culture. Part of that means accepting they speak another language. From a different perspective, my parents are very hurt at the fact that my sister-in-law is the way she is. They feel like she hates us and does not want anything to do with us. I'm not saying that is the case for anyoen here, but its just another viewpoint.

I think what I wanted to say did not come out right, I didn't mean to say that where you live does not affect the importance of the language you speak. If that was the case, none of our S/O's would even try to learn english. Instead of looking at it in a way that says..we live in the USA, so it's english. Or we live in France, so hey we speak French. You should try to look at it in a way that says, my family speaks english, and its important that my S/O learns it to be able to communicate. My S/O speaks arabic and french, so maybe I should learn those languages as well.

I keep thinking about Sarah's explanation of the way her fiance's uncle behaved. I would be hurt as well. How can one overcome these sorts of cultural differences? I think the issue is actually far beyond the scope of just language.

You are right Jenn, it could be a separate issue than the language. My advice is overcoming cultural differences is to accept and embrace them. With my ex-husband, I did just that. I learned everything about his culture, language, food, traditions. He refused to do that for me. That's one reason he is my ex. It hurt me that I spent all that time learning about his culture and he refused mine.

I think that when you are in an intercultural marriage, both parties have to make an effort to learn about each others culture regardless of where you live.

[Jenn! 918]

I'm afraid that I'm coming off as sounding intolerant and selfish. I agree with everything you all are saying - I do not think what you are saying rebuts my arguments.

I am all for learning about eachother's culture and embracing the differences.

Sarah said, "BUT, the thing that I was basically just disgusted by is that his Uncle came over, no one introduces me to him, and his Uncle didn't even say hello! I tried to talk to him a little but he didn't even really respond. "

The issue here is not language. Sarah and his uncle both speak French. The issue is respect. I realize it's a cultural difference, but this sort is hard to overcome, no?

Can you all honestly say that it wouldn't bother you?

[jordanianprincess 0]

I'm afraid that I'm coming off as sounding intolerant and selfish. I agree with everything you all are saying - I do not think what you are saying rebuts my arguments.

I am all for learning about eachother's culture and embracing the differences.

Sarah said, "BUT, the thing that I was basically just disgusted by is that his Uncle came over, no one introduces me to him, and his Uncle didn't even say hello! I tried to talk to him a little but he didn't even really respond. "

The issue here is not language. Sarah and his uncle both speak French. The issue is respect. I realize it's a cultural difference, but this sort is hard to overcome, no?

Can you all honestly say that it wouldn't bother you?

Yes that would bother me! However I don't think that has anything to do with the family speaking French and it also has nothing to do with culture. Sounds like the uncle was being rude, but that is her S/O's responsibility to make sure his family treats her well. I dont think it would have made one difference to Sarah if the uncle spoke to her in arabic, english, or french. I think as long as he acknoledged her that it would have been fine.

You don't sound intolerant or selfish at all.

[Together4ever 1]

I think this boils down more to expectations and insecurities then actual language barriers. The language barrier should not come as a big shock to any of us. You have to learn to dance with it or it will be very uncomfortable.

My husband's eldest sister used to take great glee at sitting and blatantly mocking me to a room full of people in Arabic to uproarious laughter. That's just the kind of person she is. I figured I had a choice how I reacted to her and little else. So I would take it with grace, quietly, smile to my darling who was FUMING to let him know I didn't give two figs what kind of drama she was spinning (she is famous for it) and go about my business. I had to conserve my energy to deal with the war between the 2 of them that would inevitably occur later.

Yep, it's difficult. It's definitely different. But in some twisted way, I found it provided me a journey into myself a bit and caused me to question what was really important to ME. And Mohammed and I developed our own special little language of glances, hand signals, and special words when we wanted to converse on our own but could not be alone. Works 2 ways and it doesn't necessarily have to be a negative experience.

Oh and on a side note, and maybe a few of you can help confirm this... mockery is almost a sport in Egypt. It's almost expected, so you just kind of have to get used to it as one of those cultural quirks. Boils down once again to a simple cultural difference. Can't change it... can only live with it or suffer.

[AngelK96 0]

here's my two cents, I didn't mind that when i went to visit everyone would converse in arabic, but when they wanted to speak to me, they would go out of there way to speak to me in english his whole family knows some english and the rest know english well even the little kids know some english. Ok so the first two times I went I was like awe struck because i was hearing another language and in another country, but I start feeling bored because I wanted to talk to his mother so bad in arabic, so i made up my mind i'm going to have to learn how to speak arabic. I already knew a lot of words and could type small sentences in arabic using english letters, but the pronouncation of the words is what got me. To me learning to speak arabic is easier than learning how to speak spanish and i took years of college courses in spanish and was married to a mexican american before who was bilingual and my sisters and aunts are all married to mexican americans but for some reason I just don't talk it, but i can understand it.

Sometimes you have to sit back and observe the cultural before you can jump right in. What we think is friendly and normal here is not going to be the same there.

I love hearing my husband talk arabic he sounds soooo sexy!! Did you notice that when they speak arabic and english they have two different kind of tones. Especially when trying to say things in english that have R..it's like rrrrrr rolling the tongue r. like the spanish r

[sarah and hicham 3]

Oh Boy,

I hope no one thinks I was getting all riled up about something cause I'm not.

I'm just saying, since I am just visiting Morocco periodically then I don't see what the big problem is for us to speak in French for those few days that I am actually around his family. I am aware that many people do not speak French in Morocco, but Hicham's family does speak French as well as the French!

I think it may sound like I am being a baby or selfish but hey I just want to be involved more with his family and it's hard when we can't communicate. I am learning Arabic but as I said it is difficult for me, and if we all speak French already why not?

I have tried chiming in in French, however usually I have no idea what they are even talking about so it's hard to actually respond or add to anything in a conversation. I totally agree that people cannot expect to go to a foreign country and have everyone speak English or change everything for me, but in my case, French is a common language already.

Also I know that when Hicham comes here to the US it will be difficult for him of course. My family speaks a little French but otherwise they expect me to be translating everything so that everyone can get to know eachother better. To me it just seems normal to translate everything or to make efforts to make the "oddball" fit in and feel at home and comfortable.

I'm sure I'll be back here soon

Sarah

[tatedaoudi 0]

can i just mention that im so wrapped up reading these postings that i have completely messed up a tajine. UGGGGGGGG. potatos way dry and onions all burned on the bottom.

in terms of the language thing...my only stance is try your hardest to learn little by little. When I was in morocco and Otman would have buddies over the house i would hang for a while, but then go do my own thing. Lots of cooking with my i-pod. I can see how people may think its rude, and I can also see how people may not. Language is culture. It can be frustrating and it can be liberating. Its many things...especially a complicated subject.

im rambling.

oh...last thing. Sarah you need Gnawa music. its seriously the best and I agree with Sharon, Samira Said..good stuff.

to all the habibis.

-Sarah

[sarah and hicham 3]

I do like Gnawa music - it's ok. I would love to go to the festival in the summer in Essaouira! I think that would be fun. We should plan a group trip.

Byeeee

Sarah

[honeyblonde 0]

Sorry Sarah, I think that was one of those "I need to vent" moments when I just jumped in with advice again. Vent away, that's what we're here for.

[sarah and hicham 3]

No problem- I always am interested to know if other people go through the same things and if anyone feels the same way as I do about things. People don't always agree, and I can see where what I said may seem like I am being ignorant but I guess every situation is different, and not everyone experiences the same exact scenarios, which I guess is why I still feel like my situation is different. To me it seems like I have compramised and Hicham and his family have compramised to speaking French to eachother. Their first language is Arabic and mine is English so we both have to give a little to communicate but to me it's worth it. I hope that makes sense.

Anyways, you don't need to apologize I don't think you said anything bad!

Thanks for your input.

Sarah

[Veiled Princess 1]

Some people think its rude when you go get a manicure and all the manicurists are speaking thier language, I don't think it is.

This made me remember Dat Phan If you're not familiar with him he's a vietnamese comedian... in his act he does a bit about those manicurists and what they're really saying about you when they have your feet in their hands!!!

I love hearing my husband talk arabic he sounds soooo sexy!! Did you notice that when they speak arabic and english they have two different kind of tones. Especially when trying to say things in english that have R..it's like rrrrrr rolling the tongue r. like the spanish r

YESSSSSS

[dollface41601 0]

i did feel left out the first 2 months in Jordan, but Sofyan ALWAYS translated everything that was being said.....after 2-3 months in jordan, i was understanding 85% of the conversations being held, and a few months after that, understanding was about 95% and speaking was about 50% ...i get by, and i dont know, maybe cause of my age, but i have a knack for learning foreign language, im fluent in spanish, french, (semi)arabic, and of course english, and i would love to learn dutch or german next.....my ebst advice is, learn it, or do your best....it will only benefit you in the future