High School Project: Students struggle as immigrants do

[Fandango 1,439]

Immigration is such a complicated issue, and there is such a ripple effect from it. It's really not beneficial to paint one side as heartless unempathetic b@stards.....there are those who see the emotions involved, but then there are others who see the effect illegals have on our country. To ignore this does nothing to make it go away. For a project To highlight for 'empathetic' standards WITHOUT going into the whys and wherefores of THE LAW is not doing any favors, and is just more illegal sympathizer propaganda.

This would probably be a great topic for a full course....let the students delve all they want..but firstly, let the kid choose that course, not have a language course get hijacked by political fodder....and give ALL the information...study the law, find out what the presence of illegals do to the local economy. Study what's going on with gov't funded programs....study it all...all sided.....don't just do an emotional fly by that's completely over slanted to push one way of thinking.

If the kid comes out with more empathy, that's great. But it'll be the kid's informed choice to do so....not to push him/her into feeling empathy while only being given half a story. I'd love a feel good gumdrops and unicorn world too, where rules didn't matter, where resources were unlimited, etc...but that's not where any of us live. Facts are facts, and they don't go away.

[SMOKE 1,426]

maybe they should do a project from the other POV. a USC that can not find work in the construction industry because an illegal has taken the job at $3 less an hour & is not paying taxes, while the wife of the illegal is collecting social services for herself & 3 kids. the USCs family can not recieve social services, because 1-2 years ago he had a job which reported to the IRS & made too much money......where is the empathy for the USC & his family?...oh yah i forgot...they're not victims of the true impact of illegal immigration, they are benefiting from it.

[Fandango 1,439]

She's a Spanish V teacher and her students are high school seniors. I don't know about everywhere, but at my school world language classes from level III and up are honors, often for college credit, and include culture as a very strong component. Usually the level V languages are a mix of language, culture and real-life application. I only teach level I world language, but I am a member of that department, so I am familiar with much of what is taught. It is not out of line to teach this sort of thing in a world language class, especially a Spanish class in which these kids (who have made it to an honor's level) will likely be using this language in real life. It's in fact impossible and doing a disservice to our students to teach a language (or math, or literature, or history) in a self-contained vacuum. I know that any time I teach something that could be controversial or touchy in my Mass Media class, I go first to the Advisory Board and then to the Parent's Advisory. I have never been denied because before we just throw a lesson plan out there we have to show how it follows state and national standards and what the real-life application may be. Also, there are many teachers who can teach a controversial subject without showing a bias or a personal agenda. I do it every single year when I teach media.

But how many times are people always accused of equating illegal with Mexican? And the pro-illegal crown points the fingers and calls us all racists. Yet it's ok for this teacher to do to make it a solely Latino issue.

She's not a civics or political teacher.

maybe they should do a project from the other POV. a USC that can not find work in the construction industry because an illegal has taken the job at $3 less an hour & is not paying taxes, while the wife of the illegal is collecting social services for herself & 3 kids. the USCs family can not recieve social services, because 1-2 years ago he had a job which reported to the IRS & made too much money......where is the empathy for the USC & his family?...oh yah i forgot...they're not victims of the true impact of illegal immigration, they are benefiting from it.

EXACTLY!

I'm all in favor for a true course in immigration....but to put forth & promote ALL sides of the issue.

Edited December 19, 2007 by LisaD

[Caladan 19]

She's a Spanish V teacher and her students are high school seniors. I don't know about everywhere, but at my school world language classes from level III and up are honors, often for college credit, and include culture as a very strong component. Usually the level V languages are a mix of language, culture and real-life application. I only teach level I world language, but I am a member of that department, so I am familiar with much of what is taught. It is not out of line to teach this sort of thing in a world language class, especially a Spanish class in which these kids (who have made it to an honor's level) will likely be using this language in real life. It's in fact impossible and doing a disservice to our students to teach a language (or math, or literature, or history) in a self-contained vacuum. I know that any time I teach something that could be controversial or touchy in my Mass Media class, I go first to the Advisory Board and then to the Parent's Advisory. I have never been denied because before we just throw a lesson plan out there we have to show how it follows state and national standards and what the real-life application may be. Also, there are many teachers who can teach a controversial subject without showing a bias or a personal agenda. I do it every single year when I teach media.

But how many times are people always accused of equating illegal with Mexican? And the pro-illegal crown points the fingers and calls us all racists. Yet it's ok for this teacher to do so.

I don't think she did; she asked them to imagine themselves as a Hispanic immigrant, not 'Mexican.' Given that she's teaching Spanish, asking them to go around town finding signs in Spanish (which is at bottom what this project is) makes sense.

[jundp 191]

Immigration is such a complicated issue, and there is such a ripple effect from it. It's really not beneficial to paint one side as heartless unempathetic b@stards.....there are those who see the emotions involved, but then there are others who see the effect illegals have on our country. To ignore this does nothing to make it go away. For a project To highlight for 'empathetic' standards WITHOUT going into the whys and wherefores of THE LAW is not doing any favors, and is just more illegal sympathizer propaganda.

This would probably be a great topic for a full course....let the students delve all they want..but firstly, let the kid choose that course, not have a language course get hijacked by political fodder....and give ALL the information...study the law, find out what the presence of illegals do to the local economy. Study what's going on with gov't funded programs....study it all...all sided.....don't just do an emotional fly by that's completely over slanted to push one way of thinking.

If the kid comes out with more empathy, that's great. But it'll be the kid's informed choice to do so....not to push him/her into feeling empathy while only being given half a story. I'd love a feel good gumdrops and unicorn world too, where rules didn't matter, where resources were unlimited, etc...but that's not where any of us live. Facts are facts, and they don't go away.

But just to play devil's advocate here, how do we know the kids aren't studying this in a public policy or social justice course too? Our students do. I don't disagree with you, but I don't fully agree either. So many people seem to think that teachers just pull random lesson plans out of their azzes for no good reason. That doesn't mean this teacher can't improve the unit but I also don't think it should be discounted for what is valuable from the lesson. We have no idea if it's slanted or one-sided or not. Again, I reiterate that I personally would accept some, deny some, but it's still a good lesson overall.

It is the kid's choice, btw. It's a level FIVE Spanish class. That means the student had to pass a Spanish proficiency test their first year of high school in order to test out of the first level of Spanish. I imagine this project has to be overviewed on the teacher's course outline or syllabus at the beginning of the year, so the student knows about it. Heck, I have kids who HATE writing who sign up for my class anyway because of a corporation project we do. They know before they take the class. It's an elective. It's upper level.

That's all I'm saying. I think it's wrong to discount the assignment on the basis that she's a language teacher and shouldn't be touching the subject.

My .02

Also, of course she's asking the students to be Latino. It's a Spanish V class.

[Ban Hammer 13,364]

She's a Spanish V teacher and her students are high school seniors. I don't know about everywhere, but at my school world language classes from level III and up are honors, often for college credit, and include culture as a very strong component. Usually the level V languages are a mix of language, culture and real-life application. I only teach level I world language, but I am a member of that department, so I am familiar with much of what is taught. It is not out of line to teach this sort of thing in a world language class, especially a Spanish class in which these kids (who have made it to an honor's level) will likely be using this language in real life. It's in fact impossible and doing a disservice to our students to teach a language (or math, or literature, or history) in a self-contained vacuum. I know that any time I teach something that could be controversial or touchy in my Mass Media class, I go first to the Advisory Board and then to the Parent's Advisory. I have never been denied because before we just throw a lesson plan out there we have to show how it follows state and national standards and what the real-life application may be. Also, there are many teachers who can teach a controversial subject without showing a bias or a personal agenda. I do it every single year when I teach media.

But how many times are people always accused of equating illegal with Mexican? And the pro-illegal crown points the fingers and calls us all racists. Yet it's ok for this teacher to do so.

I don't think she did; she asked them to imagine themselves as a Hispanic immigrant, not 'Mexican.' Given that she's teaching Spanish, asking them to go around town finding signs in Spanish (which is at bottom what this project is) makes sense.

maybe the german class or french class should take up this project too

[Ban Hammer 13,364]

That's all I'm saying. I think it's wrong to discount the assignment on the basis that she's a language teacher and shouldn't be touching the subject.

My .02

Also, of course she's asking the students to be Latino. It's a Spanish V class.

imo this teacher is over the top on this - she's filling students heads full of ####### about immigration. oh the poor illegals! and the impact of illegals on taxpayers and the crime that occurs from them is ignored.

i have to wonder how loud and long the outcry would be if a government teacher tasked the students to study how hospitals are going broke due to illegals, or maybe how many crimes illegals commit, or how jobs are lost due to illegals......but i know, that don't fit the progressive agenda so it won't happen.

[peejay 327]

so what are we teaching here - break the law as the ends justifies the means?

Empathy.

Propaganda and brainwashing the minds of impressionable youth is closer to the truth.

[Ban Hammer 13,364]

so what are we teaching here - break the law as the ends justifies the means?

Empathy.

Propaganda and brainwashing the minds of impressionable youth is closer to the truth.

and a 5th column agenda in this country.

Edited December 19, 2007 by charlesandnessa

[Nessa 23]

[almaty 19]

[Fandango 1,439]

She's a Spanish V teacher and her students are high school seniors. I don't know about everywhere, but at my school world language classes from level III and up are honors, often for college credit, and include culture as a very strong component. Usually the level V languages are a mix of language, culture and real-life application. I only teach level I world language, but I am a member of that department, so I am familiar with much of what is taught. It is not out of line to teach this sort of thing in a world language class, especially a Spanish class in which these kids (who have made it to an honor's level) will likely be using this language in real life. It's in fact impossible and doing a disservice to our students to teach a language (or math, or literature, or history) in a self-contained vacuum. I know that any time I teach something that could be controversial or touchy in my Mass Media class, I go first to the Advisory Board and then to the Parent's Advisory. I have never been denied because before we just throw a lesson plan out there we have to show how it follows state and national standards and what the real-life application may be. Also, there are many teachers who can teach a controversial subject without showing a bias or a personal agenda. I do it every single year when I teach media.

But how many times are people always accused of equating illegal with Mexican? And the pro-illegal crown points the fingers and calls us all racists. Yet it's ok for this teacher to do so.

I don't think she did; she asked them to imagine themselves as a Hispanic immigrant, not 'Mexican.' Given that she's teaching Spanish, asking them to go around town finding signs in Spanish (which is at bottom what this project is) makes sense.

I edited to clarify what I meant.

[Fandango 1,439]

Immigration is such a complicated issue, and there is such a ripple effect from it. It's really not beneficial to paint one side as heartless unempathetic b@stards.....there are those who see the emotions involved, but then there are others who see the effect illegals have on our country. To ignore this does nothing to make it go away. For a project To highlight for 'empathetic' standards WITHOUT going into the whys and wherefores of THE LAW is not doing any favors, and is just more illegal sympathizer propaganda.

This would probably be a great topic for a full course....let the students delve all they want..but firstly, let the kid choose that course, not have a language course get hijacked by political fodder....and give ALL the information...study the law, find out what the presence of illegals do to the local economy. Study what's going on with gov't funded programs....study it all...all sided.....don't just do an emotional fly by that's completely over slanted to push one way of thinking.

If the kid comes out with more empathy, that's great. But it'll be the kid's informed choice to do so....not to push him/her into feeling empathy while only being given half a story. I'd love a feel good gumdrops and unicorn world too, where rules didn't matter, where resources were unlimited, etc...but that's not where any of us live. Facts are facts, and they don't go away.

But just to play devil's advocate here, how do we know the kids aren't studying this in a public policy or social justice course too? Our students do. I don't disagree with you, but I don't fully agree either. So many people seem to think that teachers just pull random lesson plans out of their azzes for no good reason. That doesn't mean this teacher can't improve the unit but I also don't think it should be discounted for what is valuable from the lesson. We have no idea if it's slanted or one-sided or not. Again, I reiterate that I personally would accept some, deny some, but it's still a good lesson overall.

It is the kid's choice, btw. It's a level FIVE Spanish class. That means the student had to pass a Spanish proficiency test their first year of high school in order to test out of the first level of Spanish. I imagine this project has to be overviewed on the teacher's course outline or syllabus at the beginning of the year, so the student knows about it. Heck, I have kids who HATE writing who sign up for my class anyway because of a corporation project we do. They know before they take the class. It's an elective. It's upper level.

That's all I'm saying. I think it's wrong to discount the assignment on the basis that she's a language teacher and shouldn't be touching the subject.

My .02

Also, of course she's asking the students to be Latino. It's a Spanish V class.

We don't know the kids aren't studying this elsewhere....but if it is being taught elsewhere in a more relevant course, it should stay there where a more rounded lesson is able to be put forth.

[Nessa 23]

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

She's showing them that both legal and illegal immigration are hard (since most people here think it's a cakewalk, that's probably a good deterrent lesson), and they're actually seeing a USCIS form. That alone makes them more educated than 99% of the people who write in comments to NYT articles 'why don't you just get married and then your spouse is automatically a citizen?'

I'd rather have those kids voting on immigration legislation than someone who says 'so like the fiancee visa is for mail order brides so we should make it impossible for fiancees to drive because like they're all Russian?'

True that.